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chemie    665
13 hours ago, M.C. said:

Absolutely. That's not the problem, however.

There are -- or at least there have to be -- different levels of usefulness between "so OP that nobody in their right mind would use anything else" and "completely useless". The sum total of all the changes they've made is that the ethanol power plant went straight from the former to the latter. Ethanol is still useful for other things, but the power plant aspect of it has been all but eliminated. That's what I meant when I was talking about a new option that does not exist anymore.

they decided that ethanol was for nosh plants and not power plants

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CannedSmeef    169
1 hour ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

But having a +4 morale and +kcal buff for just grilling raw meat seems way off.

=> I would prefer if raw meat would be at least tier 0 (and maybe BBQ could be lowered to tier 2).

No, it's only a +3.  Meat isn't hard to get your hands on in the short term, but sustaining off of meat is much harder.  +3 for a easily depleted source of food, again, is fair in my eyes. 

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Lilalaunekuh    856
8 minutes ago, CannedSmeef said:
1 hour ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

But having a +4 morale and +kcal buff for just grilling raw meat seems way off.

=> I would prefer if raw meat would be at least tier 0 (and maybe BBQ could be lowered to tier 2).

No, it's only a +3.  Meat isn't hard to get your hands on in the short term, but sustaining off of meat is much harder.  +3 for a easily depleted source of food, again, is fair in my eyes. 

Ok, maybe I wasn´t clear about my point adn the "+4" is a bit misleading.

I was not referring to the tier level of the processed item, but instead talking about the increase in food quality achieved through cooking it.

 

=> Raw meat (tier -1) will be turned into BBQ (tier 3) with just one "easy" processing step increasing the quality by 4 and adding calories.

[Every other recipe with that kind of complexity will just add 1 to the total food quality: Cooking berries, mushrooms or pacu fillet]

 

If we argue that meat is a "rare/valuable" resource, we should change the quality of raw meat to bring it more in line with pacu fillet(, berries and mushrooms).

Edited by Lilalaunekuh
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nakomaru    1,434

I mean, it's raw meat vs cooked meat.. raw meat is revolting to most people except the Japanese.

Grilling is so easy and useful that you will never eat them uncooked anyway. Raw meat being +2 would be identical for balance, but it would just feel a little off for what it is.

Edited by nakomaru

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Lilalaunekuh    856
7 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

I mean, it's raw meat vs cooked meat.. raw meat is revolting to most people except the Japanese.

1. Besides real life analogies:

Why should the same process "cooking on a grill" increase the food quality for every other recipe of this type "processing a single ingredients" just by one ?

 

2. If pacu fillet should be "more valuable" than raw meat, I would argue that the same should apply to cooked fish vs (the current) BBQ.

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Former Petroleum generator , must accept both liquids from the same pipe, now , you cann't , stops working when realizes that you put some peroleum instead of ethanol.

 

 

Edited by Sebastiangperez
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My opinion is that ethanol power isn't/wasn't OP. I don't understand why "infinite power" is a concern when there is a hard limit imposed by how many acorns you have. You can get more from the printer but they won't come at a rate that puts it in danger of becoming unbalancing. In 1200 cycles I've gotten 8, and I selected them every time they came up. From that I could *almost* get a net 1000 W, which is still much less than the potential from natural gas, solar, and steam, even coal from hatches. In Arboria you'll start out with 15-20 acorns which makes ethanol a more interesting power strategy there, but you will still have that hard limit.

Edited by bonzaiferroni
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nakomaru    1,434

I don't think it's deeper than real life analogies here. Raw fish and cooked fish is enjoyed by many. Raw meat is enjoyed by few. Because the uncooked stat is very unimportant - you will virtually never consume either raw when you have access to a grill - it allows them to add some atmosphere. "Raw meat, yuck!"

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M.C.    155
55 minutes ago, chemie said:

they decided that ethanol was for nosh plants and not power plants

In that case you'll have to explain why you can still feed ethanol into a a petroleum generator. If the real intention was to disallow power generation, you'd think they would simply break that first, no?

24 minutes ago, bonzaiferroni said:

My opinion is that ethanol power isn't/wasn't OP. I don't understand why "infinite power" is a concern when there is a hard limit imposed by how many acorns you have. You can get more from the printer but they won't come at a rate that puts it in danger of becoming unbalancing. In 1200 cycles I've gotten 8, and I selected them every time they came up. From that I could *almost* get a net 1000 W, which is still much less than the potential from natural gas, solar, and steam, even coal from hatches. In Arboria you'll start out with 15-20 acorns which makes ethanol a more interesting power strategy there, but you will still have that hard limit.

It wasn't just about infinite power. It was about infinite power and infinite pwater. We're talking cool slush geyser levels of output with a relatively simple setup, and scalable too.

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3 minutes ago, M.C. said:

It wasn't just about infinite power. It was about infinite power and infinite pwater. We're talking cool slush geyser levels of output with a relatively simple setup, and scalable too.

I also had a hard time seeing that one. We are literally getting water for free from geysers and vents, I didn't understand how it was gamebreaking to work for it. You said yourself that you'd get roughly the same level from a cool slush geyser, why isn't that a problem?

I also wouldn't call it a simple setup, dealing with the CO2 and heat requires a decent amount of engineering for the average player. All of these are just my subjective opinion and I appreciate hearing yours.

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Nitroturtle    626
42 minutes ago, Sebastiangperez said:

Former Petroleum generator , must accept both liquids from the same pipe, now , you cann't , stops working when realizes that you put some peroleum instead of ethanol.

Just verified this in debug, it's definitely bugged now, though I never tested previously.  You can feed the generator either petro OR ethanol when it's freshly built and it works fine.  If you then feed it the opposite fuel, it will then stop accepting either input until it's rebuilt (or possibly on reload, didn't try that).

Reloading doesn't work either, only destroying and rebuilding.  It appears the generator is keeping a very small amount of whichever fuel in it's internal storage.  When the other fuel is added, it also gets added to the storage but the generator refuses to run on either.  

Edited by Nitroturtle
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mathmanican    2,350
47 minutes ago, Yunru said:

Blasphemy! A truly good steak needs no flavourings, as they're already present.

Says our local cannibal George Donner.

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chemie    665
26 minutes ago, M.C. said:

In that case you'll have to explain why you can still feed ethanol into a a petroleum generator. If the real intention was to disallow power generation, you'd think they would simply break that first, no?

It wasn't just about infinite power. It was about infinite power and infinite pwater. We're talking cool slush geyser levels of output with a relatively simple setup, and scalable too.

My point was not they they banned it; just nerfed it so it no longer makes sense from wood-ethanol loop

Edited by chemie

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Yunru    1,140
45 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

I don't think it's deeper than real life analogies here. Raw fish and cooked fish is enjoyed by many. Raw meat is enjoyed by few. Because the uncooked stat is very unimportant - you will virtually never consume either raw when you have access to a grill - it allows them to add some atmosphere. "Raw meat, yuck!"

We need steak tartare, we have all the ingredients :p

(Plus tartare sounds great with a little cooking.)

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Performance is very bad in this snapshot, it's freezes for minutes if to select Harvest plants tool too and just in mid game. Previous version was smooth.

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TheGCat    184
13 minutes ago, swamprunner7 said:

Performance is very bad in this snapshot, it's freezes for minutes if to select Harvest plants tool too and just in mid game. Previous version was smooth.

I noticed the same. Not minutes, but a couple of seconds to open the harvest screen.

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Bluefoxfire    21
52 minutes ago, swamprunner7 said:

Stopped playing, mid game freezes became more freequent, something not right

For me, the game window refuses to even load up and it's stuck in a loop until I end it's process. Basically, it won't go past the "update checking" window.

Edited by Bluefoxfire

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CardCrusher    2
19 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said:
  • Ethanol lakes have been added to the Rust biome (worldgen required)

Seems like this isn't happening correctly on Rime. Ethanol lakes aren't generated in Rust biomes, and there's some tiles of snow spawning for some reason.

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Maleus M    18

Arbor trees are just useless now. Why put new stuff in game and nerf it so hard to make it useless? It's nonsense!

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Sasza22    2,225
3 minutes ago, Maleus M said:

Arbor trees are just useless now. Why put new stuff in game and nerf it so hard to make it useless? It's nonsense!

How are they useless? Turned into ethanol and fed to nosh beans is now more water efficient than sleet wheat.

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M.C.    155
2 hours ago, swamprunner7 said:

Stopped playing, mid game freezes became more freequent, something not right, waiting for fix :D If game save needed, i could upload np.

I am getting around 20 FPS after cycle 80 or so. 6 dupes, very little map explored, no computationally expensive infrastructure like liquid or gas pipes. It's not unplayable per se, but it's pretty damn close to "I don't really want to play right now".

3 hours ago, chemie said:

My point was not they they banned it; just nerfed it so it no longer makes sense from wood-ethanol loop

It actually still makes sense. You'll get a decent chunk of power without tune-up, and lots of power with tune-up. Take a look at my post further down, I have a summary of a possible post-nerf setup.

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