Underpowered and worthless buildings

[wronny]

2 hours ago, Beercules said:

So because you don't use these buildings they must be useless...

I deliberately stated that they're "useless to me" instead of simply calling these buildings "useless". That's a very important distinction because the former does not imply the latter. Just as deliberate as the opening "buildings I usually fail to find a use for", suggesting that the failure may lie with my playstyle and not the buildings.

Also note the final paragraph in that in that post, where I state that I can see uses for some of the buildings in question - under specific conditions, but that these conditions simply haven't come up for me either at all or, as implied by the "these days" at the end of that post, haven't done so in a while, but once did. 

So please don't read any subtext into that post, that doesn't fit it in its entirety - just so you can ramble about "kids these days".

 

To make that entirely clear: I do not need to see these buildings removed - or changed for that matter.

I also do not view it as a bad thing that some of us do not have a use for some of the available buildings, either because their niche doesn't come up (anymore) or because we found ways to replace them with something else.

---

5 hours ago, Alexander Block said:

At high difficult level will be consumption up to 6000, but you can take more colonists.

The value I provided was per duplicant, so yes that's 6000 kcal per cycle total. Seems like I need to work on my wording in some cases.

6 hours ago, Alexander Block said:

In the forest biome (verdante) I found little food and only one hatch.

Prior to the addition of Forest Muckroots food was rather sacre in forest starts. But I also had a couple seeds where the forest start not only had little food, but also had just one tiny patch of water. I'd really hate to waste that on mush bars.

I do need to look at the total amount food available in the average forest start at some point - based off my recent arboria start, it seems to be comparable to the usual sandstone start now, if not more.

---

3 hours ago, Rebrait said:

You really don't have this option in the hot maps... you rely on mushbars a lot of cycles until you have a cold spot to plant mealwood...

The cold map too, but you can have a farm with the space heat+the celling light soon

In one of my earlier responses I entertained the possibility, that I'd have to change my approach for some of the new asteroids, which I'm super excited about:

Quote

Even on ravenous hunger it is very much possible to get the farms up before nutrient bars, meat and (forest) muckroot run out. At least on the asteroids that allow for a somewhat normal start.

But I haven't tested those asteroids beyond getting a rough overview. Some things are best left for the proper release.

[Sasza22]

At least the musher is now relevant if you want the spicy tofu (the basic tofu from the musher is an ingredient).

[goboking]

7 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

At least the musher is now relevant if you want the spicy tofu (the basic tofu from the musher is an ingredient).

Sorry, dupes, no spicy tofu for you.

[Alfons100]

On 2019-07-11 at 11:31 AM, metallichydra said:

use planter boxes for stressing your dupes!

*Not being able to breathe for 50% of a cycle*

"Eh, not much, I can handle that"

*Live around empty plantpots*

"Oh god this is too stressful, I can't take this!"

[Technoincubus]

4 hours ago, Beercules said:

NO the point of the post was to get your opinion of these buildings out, the title of your post proves that, its not a question, its a statement about your opinion. You wanted to start a conversation to get your point of view out, well guess what the world has many different point of views, but that concept is well over your head

Next time, maybe ask others opinion before providing yours, and the point of a post such as this is to listen to others and to reevaluate your point of view, not to look for reinforcement of your stance, which is what you were looking for

Okay, I suppose I will be ready to further conversation once you mature a bit. My advice for you is to drop mentor tone, lamentations about current generation and a habit of explaining to people what they actually wanted to say.

[Nebbie]

14 hours ago, bobucles said:

Gonna have to throw my vote in for the algae distiller. Slime is straight up better than algae in just about every way that matters, so the refining is a downgrade of material.

Agreed, slime into algae into oxygen is in my opinion one of the weirdest material processing paths in the game. It's overall pretty much a noob trap, as it's a fair bit of infrastructure and dupe labor that just isn't worth it with electrolyzers around. I'd really rather the distiller turn polluted dirt into slime, algae terraria turn slime into algae, and algae be needed for mush bars.

3 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

At least the musher is now relevant if you want the spicy tofu (the basic tofu from the musher is an ingredient).

Trouble is, if you do the math, spicy tofu only beats pepperbread if you are seriously dirt-starved (only able to produce it from polluted water), which is unlikely if you really have the infrastructure around to deal with nosh sprout temperature requirements sanely. And if you are dirt-starved, you might as well eat stuffed berries. Right now, the musher is only truly relevant if you're on a map where growing food is unrealistic before the generous supplies of muckroots run out. The tofu approach was the right idea, it's just badly implemented.

15 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

On the topic of the Ore Scrubber, it can be determined mathematically that it is not, and has never been, relevant to decontaminating objects.

...

It would, however, be super easy to fix the Ore Scrubber.  Instead of removing a fixed amount of germs, 480,00 per use, make it remove germs at a fixed rate until they have been removed.  Instead of 2 Scrubbers per Dupe per access point, you just need 1 per Dupe per access point.

On the matter of the ore scrubber, are you telling me this game has diseases? Cause I played the old disease update where dupes could actually die and by comparison, disease just aren't in the game right now. Klei needs to ramp them up at least halfway to their original state if they want us actually caring about germs. Anyways, there are way better ways to deal with germs than to spend dupe labor like that, and there still would be even if chlorine became toxic (which I feel it should as right now there is no real problem with chlorine floating around the base as it acts to help you disinfect, but we might need some earlygame options prior to exosuits so dupes can just trot into caustic biomes for a bit to wrangle dreckos). The ore scrubber should just become a special storage compactor that sacrifices capacity for being able to store chlorine gas canisters that it exposes stored materials to, rapidly killing germs. Relatedly, exposing food to lots of chlorine should cause dupe poisoning if not washed at a sink or something.

[Sasza22]

13 minutes ago, Nebbie said:

Trouble is, if you do the math, spicy tofu only beats pepperbread if you are seriously dirt-starved (only able to produce it from polluted water), which is unlikely if you really have the infrastructure around to deal with nosh sprout temperature requirements sanely. And if you are dirt-starved, you might as well eat stuffed berries. Right now, the musher is only truly relevant if you're on a map where growing food is unrealistic before the generous supplies of muckroots run out. The tofu approach was the right idea, it's just badly implemented.

On the Verdante map there is no ice biome nor bristle berries. Nosh sprout is your only option unless you go to space. Tofu is a nice use for early nosh beans you harvest wild (as dupes can`t eat them raw) and later doubles as a high tier recipie. Might be hard to satisfy the temperature requirements though. I kinda feel like the cool slush geyser is your most realisitc option to make it work.

We also keep forgetting about the berry sludge. While the infinite shelf time isn`t needed in a world where we can keep it in sterile CO2 it`s still a +2 quality food. Pretty nice in the early mid game.

[goboking]

49 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

We also keep forgetting about the berry sludge. While the infinite shelf time isn`t needed in a world where we can keep it in sterile CO2 it`s still a +2 quality food. Pretty nice in the early mid game.

Speaking of infinite shelf life, why is it that pickled meal lice doesn't last forever?  I'll never feed my dupes the stuff, but I might be inclined to keep some on hand if I can throw it on a shelf to be used for emergency rations should the catastrophe strike.

[Sasza22]

16 minutes ago, goboking said:

Speaking of infinite shelf life, why is it that pickled meal lice doesn't last forever?  I'll never feed my dupes the stuff, but I might be inclined to keep some on hand if I can throw it on a shelf to be used for emergency rations should the catastrophe strike.

My guess is that it`s too easy to make (it`s just meal lice on the grill). The berry sludge needs ingredients that are much harder to get.

Pickled lice has the benefit of removing germs and it extends the shelf life iirc but not for too long.

[Bluefoxfire]

I don't use ore scrubbers simply because you can just make one by putting some bleach stone into a storage box then filling it with the germy stuff. Each chlorine emission kills off 100k+ germs off of everything inside. Of course if you're out of the bleach stone, the scrubber could have a use then.

[goboking]

38 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

My guess is that it`s too easy to make (it`s just meal lice on the grill). The berry sludge needs ingredients that are much harder to get.

Pickled lice has the benefit of removing germs and it extends the shelf life iirc but not for too long.

The difference in food quality would account for the respective degrees of difficulty, wouldn't it?

[EnderCN]

On 7/11/2019 at 6:53 AM, wronny said:

Lamp, Sculpting Block, Corner Moulding

Lamp uses less power than a ceiling light, useful in ranches which generally have extra space.

 

[badgamer123]

On 7/11/2019 at 6:40 PM, Saturnus said:

@DarkMaster13 Sometimes you may want to move a pool of water from one side to the other, crossing you farm on the way. As I said, typically planter boxes are used in temporary, as in not permanent, set ups.

buff it you could drip water on it with a shower head

[Sasza22]

11 hours ago, EnderCN said:

Lamp uses less power than a ceiling light, useful in ranches which generally have extra space.

Iirc they both use 8W. It was changed after they added solar panels.

[chemie]

11 hours ago, EnderCN said:

Lamp uses less power than a ceiling light, useful in ranches which generally have extra space.

 

they need to be wired but can still be disabled and keep the room bonus

[EnderCN]

42 minutes ago, chemie said:

they need to be wired but can still be disabled and keep the room bonus

I believe this was changed last patch.  Though going in and testing it apparently it isn't.  Good to know.

57 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Iirc they both use 8W. It was changed after they added solar panels.

Ceiling lamp is 10.  Not a huge difference but my stables always have extra room so it is the one place I would use it.

[chemie]

1 minute ago, EnderCN said:

I believe this was changed last patch.  Though going in and testing it apparently it isn't.  Good to know.

 

The change was requiring wiring 

[Guest]

Let me put the space heater on the table here. Not that it is useless, but rather inefficient in terms of power spent vs heat generated and as such, I almost never use it.

space heater: 120w producing 18 Kdtu/s = 150 Kdtu/Kj
battery: 1 Kj/cycle power loss producing 1.25Kdtu/s = 750 Kdtu/Kj. 14 batteries produce as much heat/cycle as a space heater and costs 14 Kj/cycle.
liquid tepedizer: 960w producing 4064Kdtu/s = 4233 Kdtu/Kj

It's only the small size of the space heater that seems to have any appeal.

[Grimgaw]

15 minutes ago, nonoxyl said:

Let me put the space heater on the table here. Not that it is useless, but rather inefficient in terms of power spent vs heat generated and as such, I almost never use it.

Kiln is 20kDTU and costs no power.

[pacovf]

6 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

Kiln is 20kDTU and costs no power.

Kiln costs 25 kg of coal per use (20 kDTU/s for Idontknowhowlong), which you could be using in a coal generator for 25s to get 600W and 9 kDTU/s.

[mrsedgewick]

3 hours ago, nonoxyl said:

Let me put the space heater on the table here. Not that it is useless, but rather inefficient in terms of power spent vs heat generated and as such, I almost never use it.

Space heaters can be automated. I was using them a couple bases back to keep my pincha pepperplants warm in their little farming box. That particular setup got a lot more efficient when I added a hydrogen loop behind the plants to keep the heat evened out.

[nivodeus]

On 7/11/2019 at 3:19 PM, DustFireSky said:

The ore scrubber was introduced at the outbreak update and was useful there. But after some updates the diseases were harmless and the ore scrubber useless. In comparison from the outbreak update and now, the germ part is something that exist, but nothing special anymore. Since then, I haven't build it either. The only bad disease is the zombie spores and nearly impossible to get infected. They are in the oil biome. Too hot to go in without an atmo-suit. So, no risk. And I don't think anybody put these plant into the base near the fridges with CO2. That would be a bad idea.

I think through the continuous updates we have the problem, that buildings were introduced, but they will be useless after a couple of updates.

The user: wronny listed many buildings. But the most is the truth.

The same with the germ sensors or the mini pumps. Maybe some people use them, but I see no use for these buildings.

I don't build them and I don't need them. Yes, i play until the late game with rockets. No need to build these buildings. It's maybe a playstyle thing, Thermo Regulators are a bad choice too. They exist a real long time now. They were the first thing to cool the environment. U remember the Thermal update?  If you want to cool quick and dirty the environment, use super-coolant and a radiator to cool the air. Extremely fast and much better than the Thermo Regulators. Combine it with other things to make liquid O2 for the rockets. So, over the time, buildings get useless or being removed.

The power control station makes only sense, if you have high power buildings. The Petrol Gen for example. For "tuning" your wheels it is maybe a bad choice. So, each building have mostly just one meaningful use. Other uses were waste of time and not efficient. But that is just my point of view. So for me, all in all the user wronny has right. U can build it, but then, you waste more than that you get.

I must say though, it's very satisfying seeing dupes passing through the scrubber and start rolling it. 

[zophan]

On 7/11/2019 at 4:06 AM, QuQuasar said:

...Power Control Station is useless (does anyone actually trade dupe time for electicity? I've never played on a map where that was necessary),

Power control station turns a 2kW petrol gen into 3kW for 3 cycles at the cost of 5Kg refined metal. I've always built them in every power plant. Much more efficient use of all resources.

[thewreckedangle]

On 7/12/2019 at 11:11 PM, Sasza22 said:

We also keep forgetting about the berry sludge

On 7/12/2019 at 12:51 PM, thewreckedangle said:

i only use/d musher for berry sludge.

  (although now also tofu)

basically, there is no "right way" to play this. its up to you. set your own goals. i am running a "only take one of each dupe but only if they have +7 skill and they can only train that skill" colony. sure you can use the same basic setup each time, but why? i have played over 2.5k hours of this game and i am never bored, but neither it is the same thing i do each time. even if you don't understand what you are doing (me vs logic gates) so what!? just jiggle jiggle until it works. hey presto! if it doesn't, try something else. nothing is permanent. everything is replaceable. all is as important and as pointless as everything else.