watermelen671 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 I go to eat supper, and then I come back to this. DANGIT GUYS WHY DO YOU ALWAYS DO THIS TO ME?!?! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimgaw Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said: We can´t destroy seeds without trying really hard to break the game (even an untamed volcano or rocket exhaust will not do it). Have you tried humble compost heap yet? 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, watermelen671 said: I go to eat supper, and then I come back to this. DANGIT GUYS WHY DO YOU ALWAYS DO THIS TO ME?!?! "Eating supper daily" is not supposed to mean "spend all day eating supper". You will miss stuff if you do so 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krop Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, Ipsquiggle said: More tooltips have received formatting String issues and untranslatable ones are piling up since the QoL releases. Can we hope to have them fixed before the release? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Ipsquiggle said: Seed self-planting has been disabled again. Wild plants will no longer replant themselves if they get uprooted. Damn. That pretty much kills my plans for my current colony.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) I'm experiencing a major drop in framerate when I switch to the launch test. Normally I get a flat 30 fps in MK3, but any game I load up in test I get like 8 fps! Edited July 9, 2019 by Soylent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustardWarrior Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 So what I'm curious about is when he talks about pips not planting wild plants too close together. Is this only meant for the purposes of making sure arbor trees can grow their branches out, or does this apply across the board and mean it's impossible to make a wild farm comprised of many adjacent non-arbor plants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machenoid Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said: Seed self-planting has been disabled again. Wild plants will no longer replant themselves if they get uprooted. Pips are more picky about where they plant seeds, and won't crowd wild plants too close together. The first one is going to get you a lot of heat, because there is a segment of ONI who want the game to be easier... There's also a segment who wants the game to be more difficult. Frankly, self-planting should only happen under specific conditions; only certain soil types, temperature ranges, entombment, atmosphere, etc. For example in order to "wild plant" Sleet Wheet, you would need to entomb it in some kind of ice. This turns a fairly braindead "build planter boxes /storage containers, assign seed, deconstruct" to something that's more of an engineering challenge and fully limited by the environment, even if that environment is itself artificial; there are only so many tiles of phosphorite on the map, chlorine does not normally get that hot/cold, switching liquid types between "planting" and "growing" phases, etc. The second one is a good adjustment, and helps reduce the chances of wild arbor trees being placed so close together they can't grow branches. Edited July 9, 2019 by Machenoid 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebbie Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Oh boy, that's some massive changes this close to release. I like the idea of relying on pips to plant, but I'm not sure I'll like the actual implementation,. I further don't like how both irrigation and fertilization are completely required to grow plants at all domestically; I can understand irrigation, but fertilization? It makes domestic way too much of a step from wild. So, the big question is, is the Pip change so they don't pack in trees, is it so they prefer to space things out, or is it so they always space things out? These are very different things, and it would really help to specify which is the case, since I'm not looking forward to discovering I can't use pips to get a good wild mealwood row for my dreckos. As for temperature outputs, it's good to see work continue on that front, but could we please get more details about changes to output numbers? It's getting very hard to know what the state of anything is with constant vaguely-described changes. I also hope something gets done about both algae-to-oxygen setups' 30 C outputs and the large amount of things that output at their temperature but don't change temperature from hot inputs eventually. Good to see better balancing on the forest start; it really is a better-designed start than the old starting biome, and I'd love to eventually see the two merge into a proper starting area. So, relating to pips, my big concern now is ranching; I feel ranching its current form is a bit too much to get into relative to the gains you get from it. Even dreckos really were only easy in my most recent base because I could wildplant a ton of mealwood for them, but now it seems like that's not an option, and setting up the gas mix is rather annoying (too much hydrogen and the mealwoods aren't going to be happy). Puft ranching seems pointless (low output, the resources aren't terribly useful), while hatch ranching seems rather redundant (there are a lot better ways to generate power for less dupe labor, and sage hatches are just plain a noob trap, while smooth hatches are just a bad metal refinery). Overall, I like the direction things are heading, but I'm worried that the little things are being missed causing QoL to degrade. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Machenoid said: there is a segment of ONI who want the game to be easier... There's also a segment who wants the game to be more difficult. Seems like there is a call for game difficulty being more customable. I have to say it puzzles me that there are so few custom game difficulty options compared to the rather huge list of options in Don't Starve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natanstarke Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Coolthulhu said: Forcing us to deal with pips but still allowing wild planting is the worst possible situation. I disagree, i even think thats the best outcome possible! oO now they're even more useful and avoid planting things to close anyways so seems really fine too me also i tried to abuse wild planting and just wanst able too, i could in late game but at that point i would just not die anyway so its even more pointless nerfing it more. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Machenoid said: The first one is going to get you a lot of heat, because there is a segment of ONI who want the game to be easier... There's also a segment who wants the game to be more difficult. You confuse "difficult" and "mindless repetitive tedium". Planting stuff wild is still very simple. It just takes forever now and is exceptionally boring. The only challenge is to not fall asleep while doing it and that makes for exceptionally bad game design. Edited July 10, 2019 by Gurgel 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksteel Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) My current colony is dead and that's fine. I'm griefed only because wild plants don't replant themselves anymore. RIP lettuce in any type or form, brief life indeed... And always remember: no fun allowed!! haha Edited July 10, 2019 by Junksteel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natanstarke Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Khullag said: @Ipsquiggle since this is the last patch before release - can someone please do a balance pass on critters (mainly pufts - they are useless currently). and also look into geysers outputs? CO2/polluted oxygen/hydrogen/etc. some of them are again useless and by "last patch" i mean last major update before release totally agree on pufts they need to be buffed urgently for ages now, yeap co2 geyser too weak and coolslush too strong, ice machines weaker than necessary too. but the more urgent is definetly the puft co2 geyser balance wise. 2 hours ago, pacovf said: Is it? Do you think anyone will really go through the tedium of uprooting wild plants until they get pips to plant them in the exact configuration they want? I personally now file wild planting into “cute thing pips do, but don’t count on it for anything important”. Maybe a couple of thimble reeds, and that’s it. true for thimble reeds could be the only real use now and a cool one a swamp park hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goboking Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Gurgel said: You confuse "difficult" and "mindless repetitive tedium". Planting stuff wild is still very simple. It just takes forever now and is exceptionally boring. The only challenge is to not fall asleep and that makes exceptionally bad game design. If I didn't know any better I'd say they're trying to encourage us to actually build farms and ranch critters for our food instead of spamming all over the wild. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 OH MY GOD YOU MONSTERS NAMED IT "LOAFU" 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, goboking said: If I didn't know any better I'd say they're trying to encourage us to actually build farms and ranch critters for our food instead of spamming all over the wild. Since the conditions will not be met anyways "all over the wild", that is not an issue. My impression is more that they want to tune difficulty, but since this is a simulation they cannot really. So they try different things that do all not really work. I would say they should drop that idea and be satisfied that they have different environments, and that experienced players will not find any of them really hard. Edited July 10, 2019 by Gurgel typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivodeus Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Junksteel said: My current colony is dead and that's fine. I'm griefed only because wild plants don't replant themselves anymore. RIP lettuce in any type or form, brief life indeed... And always remember: no fun allowed!! haha I just wild planted 20 waterweed in my base, let's see if they are stay planted after this update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Also, @Ipsquiggle, please give the artists my thanks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivodeus Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said: Pipe optimizations have been added back in, along with bug fixes for: Crashes when loops are created Crashes when single pipes are destroyed Pipe contents getting "blocked" by inline sources View full update I understand about the pipe crashing from the optimisation patch last week, but what kind optimisation they are talking about here? can someone explain more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said: Seed self-planting has been disabled again. Wild plants will no longer replant themselves if they get uprooted. Pips are more picky about where they plant seeds, and won't crowd wild plants too close together. Perfect. A few of us talked at length about balancing wild planting on the discord channel, and this was what we were hoping for as far as balancing wild planting. This limits the mechanic, but still leaves it as a viable option to choose to pursue. I see a lot of posts here complaining about this chance, but I feel like such complaints are silly. Wild planting ends up essentially being free resources without the additional mechanisms required for domestication. This change means you have to set up some mechanisms, such as ranching, to establish a wild farm. It also means you have to sacrifice a significant amount of space to rely on wild farms. Everything in oxygen not included is "free", essentially, as you are eventually generating the resources through mechanisms. This just makes wild planting another mechanism you can use towards your colony's survival. It is still a good option, especially if you have a forest start. However, there is now a bit more encouragement to invest in mechanisms to domesticate plants instead. 12 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickerooni Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Coolthulhu said: Forcing us to deal with pips but still allowing wild planting is the worst possible situation. I’d suggested that they make wild plants only grow if they are spaced far apart. I figured that the space requirement would discourage wild planting en masse, while still leaving it interesting. I’m assuming that disabling wild planting and having the Pip heuristic do the spacing was much simpler to code. Sounds simpler. And, it accomplishes the same thing. I like it from a game balance perspective. From a, “why can this Pip do something my dupe can’t” point of view, it painful. And, since I haven’t tried using Pips to plant seeds, I can’t speak to it’s tedium. Given that they’ll take seeds right out of storage bins, it seems sane to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I think what most people here are overlooking is that pips only plant in dirt, AFAIK. Self-planting worked in all kinds of materials and that is the real nerf here. Well, I doubt I will do anything wild now. I will probably just stay on the mid-game food and forget about it. And so, step by step, the game does not become harder but less fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goboking Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Gurgel said: I think what most people here are overlooking is that pips only plant in dirt, AFAIK. Self-planting worked in all kinds of materials and that is the real nerf here. Well, I doubt I will do anything wild now. I will probably just stay on the mid-game food and forget about it. And so, step by step, the game does not become harder but less fun. Wild planting wasn't a thing a few weeks ago. If you were enjoying the game then, it stands to reason you should be able to enjoy it now. 13 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wronny Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said: Decor plants now count as plants for Nature Reserves and Parks Large Boulders are a little smaller, and all boulders contain some igneous rock Add a muckroot variant for the Forest starts. It's much more rare but contains lots of calories. The muckroot variant for the Forest start is really nice, especially if playing on hunger difficulties above "Default". This should help to bring Forest and "Plains" starts more in line with each other. Boulders containing other elements is a nice touch, even if it is just Igneous Rock. Would've loved to see the mixed variety not only have "mixed size" but also "mixed rocks". Decor plants feel like the more appropiate candidates for Nature Reserves and Parks. 2 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said: Fix issue causing missing tooltips and incorrect cursors on the Build menu Is there a chance that some of information currently only available in the tooltips in the build menu (e.g. output temperatures) could be added to the database and/or the information sheet of the buildings? 2 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said: Seed self-planting has been disabled again. Wild plants will no longer replant themselves if they get uprooted. Pips are more picky about where they plant seeds, and won't crowd wild plants too close together. This is a step in the right direction. Free food that was easily gathered in a desired location was way too powerful, this adds the "cost" of having wild plants scattered about and acts as a nice way to balance Forest vs. "Plains" starts (w/o Pips) - even moreso if playing without care packages. Good change! --- Next up adressing the lack of Gold on the asteroids without swamp biomes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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