Big thanks to devs for addressing heat deletion

[Technoincubus]

Everyone was anticipating heat deletion removal. Now we need additional cooling ways because if things will be left as they are now every base will be Aqua+turbines

[mathmanican]

Just now, Technoincubus said:

every base will be Aqua+turbines

Every?  Hmm..... (waves and then steps out of conversation.)

[Gurgel]

9 minutes ago, CannedSmeef said:

Apparently we're not supposed refine cold dirty water, because apparently a demon is setting the sand in my sifter on fire. 

To be fair, if you put a clunky counter-stream heat-exchanger between input and output, you get pretty much that the output closely follows the input temperature after a short time, because what the sieve will see is 40C coming in and 40C going out. Which makes the current state even more broken and ridiculous. 

What I would like to see is a nice counter-flow heat exchanger in a compact package. And what I would also like to see is some new ways to deal with heat. 

[Yunru]

1 minute ago, mathmanican said:

Every?  Hmm..... (waves and then steps out of conversation.)

Every. Even the ones that won't. 

[avc15]

 

10 minutes ago, Technoincubus said:

Everyone was anticipating heat deletion removal. Now we need additional cooling ways because if things will be left as they are now every base will be Aqua+turbines

Actually up until now the only thing Klei had said openly on the matter was that it was a conscious design choice, that they didn't want to drive too far down the rabbit hole of realistic physics, and this is just where they had chosen to end that effort. Actually a very valid point.

So, most of us were anticipating that fixed-temp outputs would remain in launch.

[framathon]

10 minutes ago, CannedSmeef said:

If I put near freezing polluted water in a sieve, it's not going to come out at 40 C, it's going to come out at base heat + friction from

It will come out as polluted water at those temperatures !

If you want to nitpick, pure sand filtering doesn't filter much more than a coffee filter. (it will remove big particles, and  add smaller ones)

Reverse Osmosis membranes have optimal temperature usage, but can only filter a fraction of the input.

Activated Carbon filters can be regenerated by applying heat. (Meaning they release the pollutant they trapped when overheated)

 

 

Am I the only one who loves the huge curve ball of the launch update ? So many new starting conditions, so many new possible strategies, and many things are so unbalanced that they will obviously be fixed.

 

I also don.t understand why people focus so much on cooling. As soon as the asteroid got open to space, its not a closed system anymore. Just flush extra heat  into space... It works in game, and it is physically realistic.   

[Nightinggale]

8 minutes ago, Technoincubus said:

Everyone was anticipating heat deletion removal.

Actually I think it's the opposite of that. After rejecting/ignoring (at least in the public eye) all calls for change for ages, nobody (or at least a vast majority) didn't expect it to change this close to release.

[MorsDux]

I wouldnt mind completely removing set temperatures where it makes sense. 

Wouldnt hurt for the sieve to equalize heat between filtration medium and liquid (as in real life it would).

Might be problematic with -40C sand but setting up temperature limits for containers and buildings is already a much needed feature (late game problems would also get fixed)

I would like this a lot. 

[avc15]

9 minutes ago, framathon said:

As soon as the asteroid got open to space, its not a closed system anymore. Just flush extra heat  into space... It works in game, and it is physically realistic.   

Yes! This is exactly why comets & oort asteroids near the sun have a visible trail into space, they're venting water vapor into space, and that's a thing that keeps them intact longer (it's a cooling mechanism)

If you're willing to sacrifice some mass, there's nothing forcing you to use a steam turbine. You'll still have to pump heat somehow, and since the game doesn't have gas laws that means probably using an aquatuner, but the steam turbine is an optional building.

[Nitroturtle]

I really don't understand why so many people are complaining about the fact that the water sieve heats up water that's cooler than 40C.  This is the same behavoir that's always been in the game, nothing has changed about it heating up water.  

With that said, I'd much prefer to see it add some amount of heat regardless of input temperature. 

Here's how I see the two options..

Current Implentation:  Feeding sub-40C water to the water sieve must be avoided, so always make sure to transfer heat to the water first.

Fixed Amount of heat added:  The water sieve heats water, so if I need to decontaminate water I have to figure out a cooling solution.

[pacovf]

17 minutes ago, avc15 said:

Actually up until now the only thing Klei had said openly on the matter was that it was a conscious design choice, that they didn't want to drive too far down the rabbit hole of realistic physics, and this is just where they had chosen to end that effort.

Do you actually have a source for this? Because the only time I've seen the devs address this issue anywhere was in a stream, where they vaguely mentioned that they knew that the sieve was an issue for many people, and that they were thinking about it. I'm curious to see if they had actually said anything about it before that.

[avc15]

Sorry, it's in the very back of my memory and I don't even honestly remember where I heard it.

Of course that could mean that I'm mistaken.

[Nightinggale]

50 minutes ago, MorsDux said:

Wouldnt hurt for the sieve to equalize heat between filtration medium and liquid (as in real life it would).

The forum is very active about the fixed temperature. However in the same changelog is also precisely what you say there. You can read more about it here and the implementation is precisely the same as mentioned here (from a math point of view)

 

[TheIceD]

1 hour ago, MorsDux said:

Might be problematic with -40C sand but setting up temperature limits for containers and buildings is already a much needed feature (late game problems would also get fixed)

And germs settings for containers, please

[Anacross]

I really like this change...

I dont post ont his forum often also because of ppl. I prefer the reddit chan, more friendly and respectful.

 

For me the best cooling stay the oil/petrolum. You just dump the heat in and burn it when it's too hot.You really dont need the steam turbine for other thing than volcano.

 

But  ppl  was also exploiting with the oil cooker... so the petrolum is too hot....

 

People exploit with water lock: no need to put in place air filtration and cleaning mechanism/no virus problem.......

People exploit with heat deletion: no need to adress heat management.........

People exploit with oil cooking: infinite water creation; no need for vent......

People exploit with inifinite storage: No need to dig around to create storing place......

People exploit with no power up fridge/light: no need to have a descent power supply.......

etc matter duplication etc open door etc matter destruction etc etc.......

 

What difficulty is left to the game?

It's seems that 2 games exist: "Oxygen not included" and "Exploit are included"

 

It's a solo game so the way other people have their fun; normaly dont impact me but try to post a legit way to do something; you got 10 trolls who come to say things "trololol you are stupid; look at ME; my bug exploit is better". Even the supposed full tutorial post is full bug exploit. It's really tiresome.

 

I know i will be trashed for my comment; like every time we touch the exploit subject . So be it.

I apologize by advance to people that have a different opinion than mine and who will be offended.

 

[Yunru]

5 minutes ago, Anacross said:

reddit

 

[Anacross]

It's globally true. But the ONI chan is clean.

[bobucles]

2 hours ago, MorsDux said:

Wouldnt hurt for the sieve to equalize heat between filtration medium and liquid (as in real life it would).

Might be problematic with -40C sand but setting up temperature limits for containers and buildings is already a much needed feature (late game problems would also get fixed)

It's less troublesome than expected. Sand has a very low specific heat, and some sand is used to filter plenty of water. The water will end up shifted a few degrees every time it flows through the system. That's not enough to cause immediate problems but a steady source of input hot or cold is enough to demand attention.

[Gurgel]

32 minutes ago, Anacross said:

People exploit with ...

I would like to know what your definition of "exploit" is. Because it does not seem to match the standard definition.This is, after all, a simulation and hence everything in it is part of the simulation model.

[mathmanican]

13 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

I would like to know what your definition of "exploit" is.

... (runs to hide from the impending doom.)

 

[Gurgel]

5 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

... (runs to hide from the impending doom.)

 

Seriously? Because Webster's says "exploit: to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage". I fail to see any of that here. Do you?

Instead I have the impression that this is about some subjective definition of "virtue" and that the ones calling entirely standard and obviously intended things (even if used creatively) "exploits" are basically virtue signalling. 

Now, I may be wrong and hence I am asking.

[mathmanican]

2 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Seriously?

My comment is hopefully clearly tongue and cheek.  I do know that the question "what is an exploit" has already led to quite a few very heated discussions (over the years). Fun times (dark times... sometimes very dark.)  I've loved the discussion the last few days.  Thanks for being willing to share.  Keep up the great work. 

[Yunru]

I think it's the "unfairly" part. Some would see things such as matter duplication against the intent, and thus unfair. 

 

Although even then the only person it would be unfair to is yourself, so...

[beowulf2010]

As with a lot of terms nowadays, exploit gets thrown around a lot for various things. As far as I'm concerned, an exploit is when you take an intended (or even unintended) game mechanic and modify/manipulate it to the point where you basically break the game. 

Take the single element per tile mechanic. This is intended behavior. But you can exploit this mechanic to do everything from making CO2/Hydrogen gaslocks (such a minor exploit it really doesn't even count) to Mathmanican's matter conversion factory with bead pumps, infinite gas/liquid storage and various liquid based airlocks. 

I guess the moral of the story is that the mechanic itself isn't the exploit, it's how you use the mechanic. 

[Anacross]

It exist many form of exploit, like bug exploit, mechanic exploit, concept exploit....

The only way to know for sure what is a exploit or what is not; it's to ask to the dev. "Was this intended?"

All the rest stay only my opinion. I can be right or i can be wrong (but i can explain my pov)

I dont seek conflict with other ppl that have a different view.