[Game Update] - 348553

[Hanmac]

Does the change also affect building with output temperature = building temperature? 

[GrindThisGame]

I like the removal of fixed output temperatures but don't like the 40C fixed minimal output. I would prefer the input = output temp and just have the machine generate more heat if they want to nerf it without it being confusing. Less favorable would be to increase the heat of the liquid by a certain fixed amount like 2-3C (maybe configured in the difficulty settings). 

[drbest]

As a newish kind of player I'm not really bugged that much by this change however I think that playing the magma Asteroid is basically impossible with this. What hit me the most was the Wheezewort change: I also used the entropy nullifier when possible but certain places where just too far off or there wasn't access to that many Wheezeworts.

I never really had enough power for the aqua tuner so I'm not really sure how a non pro player should deal with heat (especially when it kills your food resource).

All these changes would be completely fine if there was a cheap way to remove heat in the early and mid game and I'm not speaking about removing 100+° degrees of heat with steam turbines but simply cooling 50° down to 20° or similar. The cheap way until now was Wheezeworts and it was also challenging enough because you had to fill the room with hydrogen, use waterloocks and tempshift plates.

TL;DR: ONI was hard enough before the launch update, the changes are fine (and make sense) but there needs to be something to counter balance it.

Edited July 5, 2019 by drbest

[Echo_Hotel]

7 hours ago, Yunru said:

There is no "sliding scale of conservation of mass and energy", it's all or nothing. 

Yes there is, they quite literally just described it, you dink. We already "don't quite have conservation of mass/energy" we just want a slightly different version that is either more accurate or less accurate because the current one is not FUN.

You remember what FUN is right? Fun is a mandatory output of the game that needs to exceed a certain threshold ratio to the disruption of the thermal equilibrium of the room or, in these Summer months especially, the game quite literally isn't worth the energy to play it, either in a metaphorical mental sense or a literal physical sense.

This game isn't working to cure Alzheimer's hell it's not even working to get a couch unstuck from a stairwell (may you always know where your towel is), so if it is not FUN there's no point in heating up the room running the calculations.

[Muggins]

Agree with others:

Like removal of fixed temp outputs.

Dislike mínimum fixed temp output. (40°)

I understand they want to avoid making the game too easy but this simply doesn’t make any logical sense.

 

[Risu]

This has been a known problem for actual years and they decide the best time to finally look at it is in the month of release? I really have to question what they expect this game to be and who they want to be enjoying it. Machines are still creating energy out of nothing and they decide it's a good time to reduce the number of ways to cool down. Space biome has been a thing for months now and radiation still hasn't been added either.
 

[Ixio]

So people are whining on a mecanic, that are not so trival. You really have to look for specific designs to have the idea to use sieve water to cool down you base, and to eventually finish on this forum. 

For my point of view it is a good way for the game designing. For sure, my old save with sieve water that done half of the cooling is dead now, but if i look back, when i began on the game, I was able to manage heat without this exploit. So i'm not worry at all. 

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Ixio

[PhailRaptor]

I would also like to point out that we're right back to the devs telling us basically nothing about a change or why they are making it and expecting us to figure it out, all over again.  It was just the previous update where we had that big outrage about this very specific topic, and again we're getting a sweeping change out of left field with no direction.

I gotta admit though, I was surprised they were actually making posts directly responding to us for all of a week.  Seems we're going to have to reinvent the wheel, though.  Again.  *sigh*

[Junksteel]

I just don't feel like playing the game right now. Building steam turbines can be fun. Having to build one isn't.

[Gurgel]

20 minutes ago, Junksteel said:

I just don't feel like playing the game right now. Building steam turbines can be fun. Having to build one isn't.

I pretty much decided I will not build any Steam Turbines. If they want to force me to, they will have to do without me.

I do hope that the cooling nerf is just a part of a larger plan and that they unwisely implemented all the "nerf" parts first and we have none of the "buff" parts at the moment.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Gurgel

[goboking]

15 hours ago, nonoxyl said:

Once you have breached the space biome, it will be near impossible to keep this from happening unless your sieve is full automated and supplied with cool sand/regolith.

In the past I've suggested we be able to choose filtration mediums the same way we do refined metals for power control stations.  It appears such a request just went from being a QOL feature to an imperative one.

14 hours ago, Teunon said:

So the only method to deal with heat now seems to be a steam turbine or pray you get enough cold biomes / AETNs. Which you'll find out several hours into each map. 

Seriously, folks, tell Klei what you think about the changes they've made so that they can make informed decisions about the playing experience, but dial back the hyperbole so they know you're putting thought into your responses and not just making an emotional reaction.

[Gurgel]

13 minutes ago, goboking said:

Seriously, folks, tell Klei what you think about the changes they've made so that they can make informed decisions about the playing experience, but dial back the hyperbole so they know you're putting thought into your responses and not just making an emotional reaction.

"Hyperbole" is not an acceptable characterization of valid, well-founded concerns. So right back at you.

[goboking]

2 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

"Hyperbole" is not an acceptable characterization of valid, well-founded concerns. So right back at you.

Are you telling me you genuinely believe that steam turbines, AETNs, and cold biomes are the "only" remaining methods of dealing with heat?

[avc15]

I don't know, I'm having some fun right now trying to just figure out how to get a base off the ground on aridio.

Late game solutions can't be the only solutions, same goes for geysers. This will be a challenge that succeeds or fails on finding the most efficient & optimal moves to make in every moment.

Personally I look at this as a problem solving game, and I enjoy it somewhat when there are new problems to solve.

[gotnoface]

I thoroughly welcome the change to the fix temp. But....

1) it should go all the way input = output

2) dealing with heat is still very much possible and doable in almost every map except volcanea, where I experienced heat death on every attempt so far with this change

3) dealing with heat long term, just became chore extraordinaire = NOT FUN AT ALL (setting up turbine once is fun, so is venting my coolant into space, but doing that every single ******* time I do big project is not)

4) we need more cooling solutions +1 for heat radiators into space

5) plus one more thing, which is a long standing problem, which Klei have not addressed for entirety of the early access - I did the math and I know how much heat are certain geysers introduce to the map with each eruption, and we have no way to deal with that except more turbines and more coolant venting long term (we could ignore the high temperature geysers, but where's fun in that)

This is not reality simulator, this should be funtime science - you just made another part of this GAME a CHORE. I'm not okay with that Klei, you will be losing my support soon with what you have been doing past last half-year.

[Greybear]

Great update - still not perfect. Gives me confidence that the developers are taking the core issues seriously. If they keep working on the heat management, gas flow, and task systems, I think this game might end up being one of the best game I own. Thanks 

[Gurgel]

3 hours ago, goboking said:

Are you telling me you genuinely believe that steam turbines, AETNs, and cold biomes are the "only" remaining methods of dealing with heat?

Did I say that anywhere? Please quote. You seem to have read something else than what I remember having written. In particular I do not believe cold biomes (at least wit SW in them) are a valid cooling solution at all. I am also quote sure I said that geysers are too random and that venting into space is problematic. And In particular I am pretty sure I have said that WWs are viable but tedious now. No idea how you arrived at your conclusion.

[goboking]

4 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

No idea how you arrived at your conclusion.

The response I was calling hyperbolic was, and I quote, "so the only method to deal with heat now seems to be a steam turbine or pray you get enough cold biomes / AETNs."  That's obviously untrue.  You responded to my post with "right back at you".  What conclusion should I have drawn?

[Gurgel]

5 minutes ago, goboking said:

The response I was calling hyperbolic was, and I quote, "so the only method to deal with heat now seems to be a steam turbine or pray you get enough cold biomes / AETNs."  That's obviously untrue.  You responded to my post with "right back at you".  What conclusion should I have drawn?

Maybe that I do not agree with your style of characterizing a concern as "hyperbole"? The concern is obviously valid or the person would not have written it. This is not a discussion about the fact that you can still cool things. That is obviously possible. The whole set of concerns (with very minor exceptions) is about the entertainment factor. 

[goboking]

1 minute ago, Gurgel said:

This is not a discussion about the fact that you can still cool things. That is obviously possible.

Then a statement claiming that you cannot would be hyperbolic, would it not?  I never dismissed the poster's concerns, I just suggested less emotional, more rational framing of their problems so the developers can make informed decision.  I don't see why anyone would find such a suggestion objectionable.

 

3 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

The whole set of concerns (with very minor exceptions) is about the entertainment factor. 

What's fun to your or I may not be so to someone else.  All we can do is voice our concerns and trust that Klei will be able to weigh what we (a vocal minority) think against their vision for the game and make choices that will appeal to a wide range of players.

[Andz]

It's like 5 devs were like "NO it must stay at 40°C !" and 3 devs were like "NO it must be dynamic !" and then they agreed on a compromise and the numbers overwhelmed the reason and now we have a half baked compromise that essentially is liked by no one.

1) Either you don't like the idea of fixed output temp. This is the faction of players that favours realism. Then you would logically make out = in + x.

2) Then you have the faction that just enjoys fiction and wants to build wonders. Then you can keep it as out=40.

But then Klei thinks there is some weird kind of hybrid player that only likes realism if it kicks in at certain conditions (Oh your starter crops are all dead at 40°C? Well, let's it make it more realistic now and give you that 60°C water back that you pumed in.) to give you the final stab in the chest. NO THEY DO NOT EXIST. Thank you.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Andz

[BaloneyOs]

Haven't been able to find this information but it looks like rust deoxidizer outputs at minimum 70C.

Edited July 5, 2019 by BaloneyOs

[Histekia]

Artifacts that give of light dont count as light source even if you put them on petestals, is that normal?

[mathmanican]

2 hours ago, Greybear said:

I think this game might end up being one of the best game I own.

This game has topped my charts of all time favorite games (if you look at hours spent, or any other metric for that matter). Whether the sieve stays at 40C output, 40C min output, or goes fully dynamic, or some other interesting mechanic, I'm happy with it.  The devs throw us a challenge, and we get to deal with it.  There are so many fun mechanics to play with, because of the "1 element per tile rule" and a few other oddities that will never parallel our reality. These mechanics will probably always be seen by some as complete massive exploits (maybe I should finish the Exploits 101: how to bug the **** out of ONI).  However, that's what makes this game so fun for me.  It's an alternate reality, with its own convoluted set of rules.

If I had the ability to change these rules, as I saw fit (oh thanks to all you modders out there, I do), then every time I play the game I get to mess with the rules to my universe and see what kinds of insane contraptions I can create. Makes me appreciate more the rules for our universe. At the same time, it gives me pure joy to see how messed up things can become when one tiny rule is out of place. 

BEST GAME EVER!

Edited July 5, 2019 by mathmanican
typos

[beowulf2010]

Just now, mathmanican said:

 (maybe I should finish the Exploits 101: how to bug the **** out of ONI).

Please do. Some of the ridiculous things you, Saturnus, and others have designed are some of the funnest things I've ever copied in ONI. 

From the old school Borg Cube and Percolator to the metal cannon and DIY geysers, it's been fun seeing the extremes to which some of you have taken the game. And let's not forgot that gorgeous gas conversion/storage facility.