Wes is in desperate need of a rework

[kilobit]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho said:

I don't think Wes' hunger is all that big of a problem. If you math it out, there's only a twenty point hunger differences per day compared to the other characters. That's less than two juicy berries. (12.5 points of hunger each.) Check the wiki out if you need more.

It really isn't all that bad, especially not something that should be considered banworthy. 

Don't get me wrong though, I think Wes could really do with some added perks. 

I'm especially a fan of the ideas that'd only affect group members. It'd encourage more experienced players to play him so they can get the benefit while knowing how to avoid problems with his downsides.

 

EDIT: I had an idea in another thread and I thought I should try putting it in here.

(ps go vote on the poll)

Oooh, these are cool ideas. I like these a lot.

I think that Wes' hunger drain is bad purely because at the moment he has... pretty much nothing to balance out that extra food he eats. You may as well play as Wilson. But if something like this was added, or any of the other things discussed here, then I think his hunger drain would be justified.

[MondayNight]

When you read the title as:

"Wes is desperate.."

[kilobit]

3 minutes ago, lifetheuniverse said:

Suggested quite a long while back that Wes could retain his personal difficulty while providing something to the team.
One of his original aspects is 'Has trouble staying alive'. Give that some more focus, in aggro management.

Give Balloons mob aggro priority higher than normal players.
Give Wes mob aggro priority higher than balloons.
Let both the balloons and Wes 'grab' aggro more commonly.

Then you basically have a Forge Runner. The current character reworks set the power mark really, really high, so maybe he could have more team utility, but the basic theme of 'good for team, bad for Wes' should be the core of the rework.

Yes! This is fun, and taking anything from the events is always nice. I agree that Wes' struggle with being able to live should still be present, but just with some benefits to the team.

[Vultureneck]

 

16 hours ago, Brago-sama said:

•Wes himself has higher priority when it comes to enemies targeting players. Maybe even a larger radius in which mobs will notice him as well.

This feels like the best ability he could have imo. If it was like it was in the forge I think it would be too random to be worth much at all in the base game. If he had a command to taunt all the mobs in an area, or better yet if all mobs that were already attacking somebody else would instantly target Wes if he got close.

[fimmatek]

I personally don't agree with the "Wes is a burden" arguement: if you're experienced enough, you can be useful no matter who you pick; and if you don't know what to do, you'll be useless as any other character too (Wolfgang consumes waaay more food ... not like as if your fellow Wilson neighbour couldn't eat a stack of jerkies and 5 meaty stews in one go).

However, I do think that it'd be nice if he could provide some unique advantages for the team. In my opinion, the best would be if he were still weak in some way (that is, he were a clearly more difficult character), but in a way that others benefit from. I really like the idea of having a higher aggro priority and radius. Or maybe (just a quick idea, idk how good that would be in game) he could enterntain the others as he pantomimes and thous increasing their sanity (everyone likes a good show, right? ).

[kilobit]

1 hour ago, fimmatek said:

I personally don't agree with the "Wes is a burden" arguement: if you're experienced enough, you can be useful no matter who you pick; and if you don't know what to do, you'll be useless as any other character too (Wolfgang consumes waaay more food ... not like as if your fellow Wilson neighbour couldn't eat a stack of jerkies and 5 meaty stews in one go).

However, I do think that it'd be nice if he could provide some unique advantages for the team. In my opinion, the best would be if he were still weak in some way (that is, he were a clearly more difficult character), but in a way that others benefit from. I really like the idea of having a higher aggro priority and radius. Or maybe (just a quick idea, idk how good that would be in game) he could enterntain the others as he pantomimes and thous increasing their sanity (everyone likes a good show, right? ).

Still, my point is that even if you are experienced enough to play Wes well, why not play as any other character?

I think I like him pulling aggro from the others players more, but the sanity for other players is also good. Maybe both could co-exist.

[Brago-sama]

1 hour ago, Vultureneck said:

If he had a command to taunt all the mobs in an area, or better yet if all mobs that were already attacking somebody else would instantly target Wes if he got close.

I love your idea. fits his theme of dieing easily nicely 

[maradyne]

2 hours ago, Vultureneck said:

If he had a command to taunt all the mobs in an area,

[offensive mime gestures]

[minespatch]

Just now, lifetheuniverse said:

[offensive mime gestures]

You mean sign language?

[Maxposting]

2 hours ago, minespatch said:

You mean sign language?

[Starts steering invisible car wheel while being stuck in a box]

[Seero]

22 hours ago, bitcrushed_rage said:

And now Wes' downsides, they affect every other player in the server. Wes consumes more food than everyone. Wes deals less damage than everyone. Wes has low max HP compared to most of the cast. His only upside is that his balloons can be used to quickly drain sanity (which is good or bad, depending on the circumstances or the player, but it's not exactly the greatest place to be with 25% less damage being dealt), and bait and damage mobs. Neither of these are very substantial at all, and bring pretty much nothing to the table. Granted, with enough skill, the player could be less of a burden, but then.. why not just play as someone else?

 

This depends if you just leech off of other people. No they do not effect every other player if you contribute well enough and don't leech at all. 

[CameoAppearance]

2 hours ago, Averagewx78main said:

This depends if you just leech off of other people. No they do not effect every other player if you contribute well enough and don't leech at all. 

Technically one could argue that you're consuming resources that another player could have used instead even if you forage them yourself, but realistically that doesn't matter unless the server is extremely full, if you get your resources far enough from the base that nobody's going to be competing for them. There are pretty much always unpicked berry bushes somewhere on the far side of the map, and if it's later than the first autumn there will be birchnut trees showing the wrong season because no players have walked past them for weeks.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I say Wes comes up short if every character is played perfectly but his weaknesses disappear into the background noise on a server populated by proficient-but-not-amazing players. If you did harvest every berry bush on the map most of the berries would probably rot before anyone could eat them, too.

[Seero]

4 hours ago, CameoAppearance said:

Technically one could argue that you're consuming resources that another player could have used instead even if you forage them yourself, but realistically that doesn't matter unless the server is extremely full, if you get your resources far enough from the base that nobody's going to be competing for them. There are pretty much always unpicked berry bushes somewhere on the far side of the map, and if it's later than the first autumn there will be birchnut trees showing the wrong season because no players have walked past them for weeks.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I say Wes comes up short if every character is played perfectly but his weaknesses disappear into the background noise on a server populated by proficient-but-not-amazing players. If you did harvest every berry bush on the map most of the berries would probably rot before anyone could eat them, too.

My point is Wes isn't a HUGE problem that cripples all of us as DST players.
His 1:1 port from singleplayer makes people feel confused about it, and it's understandable. Why would you have a challenge character in a game about co-operation? Well simply put, challenges are fun. It's not a big deal if you play Wes. You're no different from any other player who griefs, leeches or steals no matter the character, and if your not contributing, your either;

Not basing with everyone else

Leeching/griefing/stealing

And both aren't affected by what character you play, which means it's how you play the character makes it important.

Wickerbottom or Wortox isn't any different from anyone else if i don't use the extent of there perks, right?

[watermelen671]

19 hours ago, Wesworld said:

Like say he could pantomime the invisible wall and it creates a wall that allies could pass through, but mobs get blocked by, probs with low durability, and can still be hammered.

Dang, I thought it was a joke when people said to me that Wes was so powerful he could bend reality to his will. 

Also, I came here for nerf Wes memes, and was surprised with an intellectual discussion of a challenge character in a cooperative multiplayer environment. 

Also how the heck do you rework Wilson?

Isn't he supposed to be blander than a bread sandwich on purpose?

Spoiler

Aside from his god-awful puns. 

 

[DavePlaysDST]

Wes should have telepathy kind of where instead of speaking with quotes like normal chars you see his “thoughts” meaning you can now read signs as wes. Keep the miming animation tho. Also maybe just have ... or ??? Or !!! As most of his “quotes/thoughts” so no work is really needed. I just want a reason for Wes to read signs and this seems most viable. The telepathy is so it makes sense that you can “see” his “thoughts”. I bet none of this made sense to anyone lol.

[Maxposting]

18 hours ago, DavePlaysDST said:

Wes should have telepathy kind of where instead of speaking with quotes like normal chars you see his “thoughts” meaning you can now read signs as wes. Keep the miming animation tho. Also maybe just have ... or ??? Or !!! As most of his “quotes/thoughts” so no work is really needed. I just want a reason for Wes to read signs and this seems most viable. The telepathy is so it makes sense that you can “see” his “thoughts”. I bet none of this made sense to anyone lol.

he is a ugly mime, not a celestial entity

[Brago-sama]

17 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

ugly

 

17 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

mime

[TemporarySolutn]

I think you missed the point of him being bad on purpose.

[4 Da LOLs]

9 hours ago, CrimsonEcho said:

I think you missed the point of him being bad on purpose.

the problem is that it doesn't make sense to have a intentionally bad character in a team game

[TemporarySolutn]

36 minutes ago, 4 Da LOLs said:

the problem is that it doesn't make sense to have a intentionally bad character in a team game

stonks

[4 Da LOLs]

1 minute ago, CrimsonEcho said:

stonks

 

[Thomas Die]

personally i believe that wes' implementation was to challenge the players to test our capabilities, they first did this by making wes intentionally hard to get ( if you managed to get him easily, good for you) and then threw you in a world with only balloons when you play him. however the addition of balloons could have been a joke but i think that the reason they added it was because they knew that it could be exploited in some way or form and that the player had to figure it out by themselves instead of blatantly stating it e.g webber: Is a monster. Can befriend spiders. Grows a silky smooth beard.

so i believe that to buff wes is to give him a perk that requires a new form of thinking to use it effectively such as wortox's teleport kiting ( invincibility frames glitch) . Is it not right for in a survival game the best part of survival is adaption. I'm not as creative as most people to come up with an example but i only hope that klei see's this and takes it into consideration because i'm afraid of the character buffs becoming less creative as time goes by ; personaly i didn't enjoy willows buff or winona's.

(sorry if you thought my ideas were unhelpful or don't find this useful at all but this is simply my opinion)

[Chaos4Me_]

Aight, hear me out.

 

What if Wes was reworked to affect others positively, but himself negatively. Maybe if he can make balloons to give to fellow survivors for them to gain sanity while holding it, as if they had a garland, but it still gives Wes the -5 sanity. For other things that he should be able to craft, (there should be a balloon tab, only if he is holding balloons in his inventory) where he should be able to make balloons like I just described, his default balloons that distract mobs, and possibly balloon hats for the survivors. With the balloons and balloon hats, they should be like the garland, but in a sense where they arent overpowered, and where Wes wont be able to use them. My idea for this is to let others be more accepting of him, but still make it a challenge for those that want to play him. So initially, I would see him as a sacrifice for others to play as, making his gameplay while surviving alone be a mirror, but with others actually wanting him around in some cases.