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Kawasaki    1,096

Discuss
Do you want it added?
Is it a good idea?
Building reactors?
Tiles that block radioactive decay?
Mining uranium?
Catastrophic failure?

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Kawasaki    1,096

Its not the series that got me into thinking about this,but cause of it i decided to post something about it.
Also yeah ONI might not be ready, but do we want it? Is it going to be a good mechanic? 
I tried to search the forum for anyone writing about this but i couldnt find any.

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Gurgel    1,126
6 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

Yes, it will be interesting but I think it will not available before the first expansion.

And by the way, radioactive mecanism is already in the game : https://oni-db.com/details/radium

Probably. The "Nuclear Update" would make a great DLC. 

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Kawasaki    1,096

I actually didnt know we even had this in the game. Ive been strugling to go petrolium even.
So i guess we are heading there! Good.

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Nightinggale    959
5 hours ago, SamLogan said:

And by the way, radioactive mecanism is already in the game : https://oni-db.com/details/radium

To quote the wiki "Radium is unused in current game". It's not uncommon to have something in the game, which isn't accessible to the player and if added with hacking/modding, it is revealed that it's hidden from the player because of bugs or it's only partly implemented.

6 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

Yes, we too watched Chernobyl

I haven't as I have no need to watch work of fiction. That series is full of made up stuff to make it more dramatic and cinematic, which is a shame because mixed fact and fiction means either fiction is viewed as facts or facts becomes fiction.

Want to hear some real world facts? 3 reactors exploded at Fukushima in 2011. It took 8 years to locate where reactor 2 ended up. It's not under control, it's just located. Reactors 1 and 3 are still missing and the storage pool for reactor 4 was damaged, is still in poor condition and might break, causing the MOX fuel to leak or even explode. This means while Chernobyl was a one time event where one reactor killed itself in the process, Fukushima is still ongoing with 3 open reactors, which haven't shut down.

At least now we learned that nuclear power is dangerous and if it's even used, then we need to make sure it's safe... well not really. Instead we apparently have to debate if it's ok to run a reactor with 400 cracks in it despite the rules bans doing so. You know, ignoring safety rules is more profitable.

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bobucles    303

I had a few ideas on how radiation can work given the current mechanics of the game. First off is to treat radiation like a germ. Yeah it's not really a germ, but radiation in general disinfects and displaces germs. The germ layer also includes options for spreading, pathogen growth and decay so all the mechanics are pretty much there. Why reinvent the wheel. As a """germ""" it would:

- Spawn and grow in any radioactive medium.

- Spread to nearby tiles at a critical threshold.

- Slowly decay outside the medium.

- Be "sterilized" by radiation blockers (gold, water?, lead?, other??)

- Infect hapless dupes who get covered in the stuff.

Extreme levels of radiation "germ" may also generate light to represent the warm glow of progress. But since there are very few ways to disinfect radiation, a radiation spill would be very difficult to clean up. Prevention is key.

A dupe who gets infected by radium germs will suffer a "radical sickness". IRL radiation sickness is boring. Instead, the dupe goes full 70's cool kid and wears a thick pair of cool, tacky sunglasses. The thick shades emit an aura of not-cool-grandpa and render them incapable of benefiting from decor effects. It doesn't seem like much, but decor is critical for morale so it would devastate colonies on the morale layer. The cure is similarly ridiculous as a doctor has to distract the dupe long enough to swipe and smash the tacky shades. Poor guy.

Other mechanics that may be fun to explore:

- A radioactive power generator that spits radiation all over the place and thus needs containment. In keeping with the theme maybe a disco ball? It's shiny, tacky and the exact opposite of a boring concrete box.

- When a material reaches critical radiation levels, it transmutes into another material. This represents the element suffering radioactive decay so for example, Chlorine might decay into sulfur.  This will promote extremely dangerous and reckless machines to utilize radiation. 

- The radioactive element itself decays into another material. This is handy for generating radioactive gasses and making the material more difficult to handle in general. Fresh radioactive material would be in constant demand, which may require a special supply system such as space missions.

- The radioactive element becomes extremely dangerous in high concentrations. The pathogen system sort of takes care of this as more material can store more "germs". A critical mass of germs can spread out and cause lots of problems very quickly.

 

too cool for school.png

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Nightinggale    959
36 minutes ago, bobucles said:

I had a few ideas on how radiation can work given the current mechanics of the game.

Sounds gamebreaking to me. I think lesson #5 would be fitting in this case.

 

 

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Yunru    1,111

Every now and again, you come across something that makes you wonder why Klei bothers with a suggestion forum. 

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Gracefulmuse    120
2 hours ago, Yunru said:

Every now and again, you come across something that makes you wonder why Klei bothers with a suggestion forum. 

Would this actually be a good thread for the suggestion forum? 

10 hours ago, Kawasaki said:

Discuss
Do you want it added?
Is it a good idea?
Building reactors?
Tiles that block radioactive decay?
Mining uranium?
Catastrophic failure?

It seems to me that the OP is looking for a discussion about radiation, not exactly suggestions. 

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Yunru    1,111
Just now, Gracefulmuse said:

Would this actually be a good thread for the suggestion forum? 

It seems to me that the OP is looking for a discussion about radiation, not exactly suggestions. 

Well it's either a suggestion, if related to ONI, or it's entirely off-topic and shouldn't be here.

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Gurgel    1,126
2 hours ago, Yunru said:

Every now and again, you come across something that makes you wonder why Klei bothers with a suggestion forum. 

Simple: Most people find it. Klei can then ignore what is there and follow the discussion here instead.

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Yunru    1,111
17 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Simple: Most people find it. Klei can then ignore what is there and follow the discussion here instead.

But everything that's (incorrectly) discussed here has been discussed to death over there.

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Gurgel    1,126
1 hour ago, Yunru said:

But everything that's (incorrectly) discussed here has been discussed to death over there.

Over there, they can simply ignore the whole mess. Here, they have to look at each posting. Hence having the proposal forum reduces their workload massively, even if the occasional, aehm, person with reading difficulties, posts proposals here.

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Nightinggale    959
18 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Over there, they can simply ignore the whole mess. Here, they have to look at each posting.

Are you saying Klei doesn't read what I write to them? :o

Ironically that's how far I got when I was intterupted by a notification telling me that Klei has fixed the bug I posted 4 hours ago. I guess that answers the question. They do in fact read what I write :) (at least bug reports)

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Kawasaki    1,096
4 hours ago, Yunru said:

Well it's either a suggestion, if related to ONI, or it's entirely off-topic and shouldn't be here.

That makes absolutely no sense.
And yes this is not a suggestion its a discussion in here where people actually participate in discussions. Calm down people.

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Yunru    1,111
Just now, Kawasaki said:

That makes absolutely no sense.
And yes this is not a suggestion its a discussion in here where people actually participate in discussions. Calm down people.

It's discussion of a feature the game doesn't have. That makes it either a suggestion or off-topic. 

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Kawasaki    1,096
1 minute ago, Yunru said:

It's discussion of a feature the game doesn't have. That makes it either a suggestion or off-topic. 

:confused::confused::confused: 
Not here to be mean or anything ,but people like you need to calm down. Stop policing forums and if you see a thread you don't like, just don't go in there and ignore it. There are moderators in the forum if they think this is a spam/off-topic/suggestion they will move it. As far as i know this thread started with a general discussion about the games future and possible update that has been already suggested by items in the game and hints.

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Nightinggale    959

I kind of agree with both of you. OP didn't mean it as a feature request and as such it's a discussion thread kind of like the bad advice thread. Not directly about what to do ingame, not feature request yet still somewhat related to ONI. However one person took the step and made it into a feature request (or feature request like) by proposing an actual implementation and if we look at that specific post, I will agree with @Yunru.

Personally I don't care much for this thread and you can say whatever you like. The only thing I really care about is the feature request/proposal as I see it as game breaking and I totally do not want it.

23 minutes ago, Kawasaki said:

people like you need to calm down.

A friendly advice: that's a bad thing to say online or perhaps in general because it is likely to have the opposite effect. The problem is in a disagreement, both parties are like "I'm right and you are wrong" (that's kind of the definition of a disagreement). Telling somebody to calm down is like saying "I'm right and you are a bad person if you can't accept that", which is fairly offensive to somebody who knows he/she is right. This means there is a high risk that things escalate rather than calming down.

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Sasza22    2,103

So lets try to bring this topic on track.

20 hours ago, Kawasaki said:

Do you want it added?

Of course. I love new content like every early access player. I`d like to see space radiation and granite having a little bit of natural radiation like irl.

20 hours ago, Kawasaki said:

Is it a good idea?

At this moment in development probably not. The game is close to launch and radiation could end up being a huge system requiring multiple iterations of testing. Might be solid for dlc. Or might be just the power generator ignoring radiation completely. Everything is possible given that radium is in the game files, has finished artwork and it`s description mentiones power production.

20 hours ago, Kawasaki said:

Building reactors?

If a reactor building is added then it needs to be a complicated design requring a lot of setup and producing outputs that have to be dealt with, for example hot steam and nuclear waste. It would require you to build it properly and handle it properly. Could be a late game power source but as for now we don`t need a super power source. Solar panels are pretty good and the oil cooker designs end up resource positive with tons of excess power so as long as oil wells are infinite this is the way to go lategame.

20 hours ago, Kawasaki said:

Tiles that block radioactive decay?

Of course we need safety systems. I think each element should have a "transparency" to radiation so that multiple layers of rock will block it off completely (maybe abyssalite could be a good radiation blocker) then also a special tile type designed to block radiation. We would also need protective suits of some kind.

20 hours ago, Kawasaki said:

Mining uranium?

As for now we got radium in the game files. While it`s not usable for usual fission reactors it could be used for some kind of RTG system and maybe even be a requirement for rockets so they have power during flight.

20 hours ago, Kawasaki said:

Catastrophic failure?

Preferrably not as a random occurence. If the reactor requires a complicated setup and cooling and you fail to deliver that maybe it could cause everything to overheat and damage nearby stuff, plus deconstructing it might put radioactive elements on the floor so dangerous situation would be possible but the thing randomly exploding is a big no.

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bobucles    303

Sounds gamebreaking to me. I think lesson #5 would be fitting in this case.


That's interesting because it doesn't introduce anything dramatically game changing. There are no new information layers to deal with, and no CPU devouring calculations beyond what already exists. Or is it broken because the existing game mechanics are broken?  Simply disliking an idea doesn't automatically make it broken.

In any event, a radioactive element would introduce some kind of useful late game resource. The big demands in the late game are typically energy or finding rare elements, and radioactive magic offers a way to get both. Nothing is free of course and it'd create a hazardous environment that requires extreme levels of containment. In keeping with the spirit of other hazards the downsides of an outbreak should not be fatal, but create a downside severe enough to be decidedly bad.

I think there are enough opportunities to make radiation exciting and fun to play with. 

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Nightinggale    959
8 hours ago, bobucles said:

That's interesting because it doesn't introduce anything dramatically game changing. There are no new information layers to deal with, and no CPU devouring calculations beyond what already exists. Or is it broken because the existing game mechanics are broken?  Simply disliking an idea doesn't automatically make it broken.

Two things can happen. If it is implemented precisely like you describe, then dupes have no awareness of radiation. This means they are perfectly fine with idling or sleeping in the reactor room and then die from radiation poisoning.

Alternatively we have to teach dupes to avoid radiation whenever possible. This makes pathfinding harder because it's more data to consider and the more data used for pathfinding, the slower it will be. To make matters worse, the dupe might go through a radiated area if the radiation is concentrated at the top of the room and they can walk under it. A moment late it has fallen to the floor and they want to avoid it and a few seconds later it's on the top and they can walk through it again. This will cause the back and forth motion we are all annoyed with when dupes seek out oxygen.

Just because an idea use the existing game mechanics doesn't mean it won't break either performance or gameplay.

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