Ideas for wigfrids rework?

[Misa22]

It would be could if she had some unique stuff when mounting a beefalo, you know, warrior on a horse and all that stuff... 

[Auth]

34 minutes ago, Hell-met said:

Are we even sure wolfgang is intended to have that +25% speed? It's tied to his scale, and in DS bigger scale automatically accomodates move speed. For all we know it might be a side effect Klei didn't plan on.

Seems like it's been in the game an awful long time for them to have not realized if it was a glitch or not.

[Well-met]

14 minutes ago, Auth said:

Seems like it's been in the game an awful long time for them to have not realized if it was a glitch or not.

Fair.

[minespatch]

3 hours ago, Auth said:

Those are the pure, raw, thoughts of a Wigfrid main that has thought about this subject before Wigfrid V. Wolfgang threads were even made.

[BeliarBAD]

6 hours ago, Auth said:

Hi. I'd like to point out that not only am I specialized in the field of Wigfrid Quotology, but that I have... 852 hours in DST, 99% of which is spent playing exclusively as Wigfrid. Most likely even more, since Steam doesn't track offline hours. Point is, I am a Wigfrid main, I am knowledgeable on the subject.

Let's break Wigfrid down, piece by piece:

-Wigfrid can only eat meat (And jellybeans, and specifically non-fruit based candy/treats... for some reason.)
-Wigfrid takes 25% less damage, and deals 25% more damage.
-Wigfrid can craft relatively cheap gear at the start of the game, and spawns with said gear in her hands already.

In other places, I've talked extensively about changes that could help Wigfrid, and it looks like a few people here already mentioned some of my ideas. Great minds think alike, cheers! Although, mine's a bit more specific.

Let's pull in the wonderful man Wolfgang. A lot of people seem to try and give Wolfgang an analysis compared against Wigfrid, but yet they either lack in experience with one of them, or both of them. That other 1% of my playtime has been Wolfgang. And let me tell you- Wolfgang is disgustingly overpowered in terms of combat.

Which is Wigfrid's main issue- She is a warrior character based on combat, yet she plays second fiddle to it. For a player that wants to focus on playing at peak performance in their world, Wigfrid suffers the terrible fate that Winona was given, which is that you pick them, craft items, switch off of them because their perks by themselves don't warrant an interesting enough time to keep playing as them, when another character does have direct stats that makes their gameplay closer to the meta. That's not to say nobody is even allowed to have fun with these characters, as I've previously mentioned, I am a Wigfrid main, I honestly enjoy playing as her, but the problem is, is that if I ever switch to Wolfgang in the world, I find it hard to consciously want to switch back to Wigfrid.

Because Wolfgang, unlike Wigfrid,

-Can eat anything
-Deals 100% more damage, has no natural resistance to damage
-Moves 25% faster
-Has higher max health (300!)

So when you compare the two, in terms of combat, so long as you know the basics of kiting, Wolfgang is an obvious no brainer to pick over Wigfrid. You can even try making the argument "But Wolfgang needs to eat more" to which I offer back, "But Wolfgang can eat more", which nullifies any argument there. His higher max health and movement speed allow him to not only have the option to face tank, but also kite better than other characters if he chooses that option, all the while, dealing more damage than Wigfrid. And let's face it, you never go into a big battle without a pile of healing food like dragon pie or pirogi, so that mighty form is never going to wear off, so long as you prepared the bare minimum amount. And speaking of- Dragon pie makes one of the hugest differences between the two- Wigfrid can't eat it. She can eat pirogi, however, the means of which not just obtaining but all the way down to consuming come in, where pirogi needs a vegetable, an egg, a meat, and whatever to be made, whereas dragon pie needs 1 dragon fruit and 3 sticks you can pick up off the ground, which makes it come out more fresh than if you just had that meat sit there for a few days, because, well, sticks don't spoil. Not to mention, but dragon pie has the standard eating animation, which is nearly instant, whereas pirogi requires the meat animation, which isn't instant.

To summarize everything until this point:

Wigfrid is overshadowed and outclassed completely and entirely by Wolfgang. There is no argument to be made, especially now that the Celestial Portal exists.

Klei is making the character refreshes in order to breathe more life into characters, make them more unique, and actually stand on their own and be worth playing when compared to anything else. At the moment, Wigfrid is literally Worsegang.

Let's talk about what I think should be done with Wigfrid:

She doesn't need new craftables. This will keep her in the same purgatory that will keep her miles from the meta, because she will simply be "Picked and dropped" at the celestial portal for these craftables, then anyone playing as good as they can will immediately switch to a better character. Her craftables are fine, because even though the battle spear is outshined by the hambat mid game, that's the entire point of the weapon. It's just a better spear, not the end-all weapon. Her helmet however is incredibly good, even to late game, but the more experienced you get, the more you'll naturally prefer combat strength to defense, as you'll have kiting patterns down-pat anyway. The two are balanced.

As others have mentioned, Wigfrid is a team player, and her character seems to show it. Having the battle cry would be amazing, but hold your horses, you can't just say "Give everyone a stat boost" and call it a day. We need to get into specifics.

If you give Wigfrid's battle cry just a little nudge, then congratulations, she still does less damage than Wolfgang, and if you're playing alone or soloing enemies or a boss, the battle cry is essentially useless, again, compared to playing Wolfgang. In this instance, it does nothing but add another tag to her stats to make her look pretty, but effectively do nothing.

If you give it a huge push, Wigfrid can buff anybody effectively up to the same level she is, which just makes her uniqueness get lost in the monotony of the fight. Even though she's technically good, it overall makes her feel like she's less important in a team standpoint as everyone has increased damage ALONG WITH THEIR OWN BUFFS in the moment.

So, instead, make the battle cry effect her and her teammates differently. When Wigfrid is dealing consistent damage to enemies, she let's out a battle cry, which buffs her damage temporarily to 100% more (Wolfgang level) and either increase her defense (Not preferred) or her movement speed (But not as much as Wolfgang's, maybe 10%) for a brief time. Increase the attack damage of everyone around her to 25% more, and perhaps give them the same 25% resistance she has. Essentially, during combat, Wigfrid turns everyone around her into a Wigfrid while she turns into a Wolfgang. If Wigfrid gets hit, the battle cry's (Whatever) meter depletes, but can be regained, meaning that you are penalized for not exceeding perfectly in combat, which makes it all the more rewarding for the player to keep the battlecry going.

Now let's talk about repercussions of doing this:

Have we effectively done nothing but turn the tables, making Wolfgang be overshadowed by Wigfrid?
No, Wolfgang can still eat dragon pie and other non-meat dishes, and his mighty form can be activated whenever, meaning he can have a free speed boost outside of combat, which helps with a large variety of chores, not just combat. Wigfrid's buffs only activate not only while she's in combat, but when she's doing good in combat, as getting hit makes the battle cry stop temporarily until she can get it back up again. Pardon slurpers, no enemies take hunger, so Wolfgang's mighty form is only affected by natural depletion over time. Not to mention, Woflgang can start a fight in Mighty Form.

Doesn't this make Wolfgang and the other meta characters (WX-78, Wickerbottom) more disgustingly good?

Yes. Okay, okay, I know to some this sounds bad. Hearing words like "meta" or "buffs" scares people, right? Well, here's the thing. I'd like to just talk about the meta characters, and why they are meta. The characters that are currently in the meta, are, because not only do they exceed on their own merits, but the synergy between those core 3 is so outstanding, that together, they are almost a nearly unbreakable force of nature. With infinite dragon pies, a character immune to freezing and overheating, 2 of them have speed boosts, one literally emits light, and none of them struggle with gathering nightmare fuel, all which have debuffs that barely even matter, they are the meta, because together, they are unstoppable. By making it so Wigfrid now has the ability to directly benefit meta characters, now she fits in with the synergy, there is a actual, definite, and complete point to pick and play as her, and congratulations, we have officially added a new character to the meta level.

Balancing these characters is tricky. On one hand, you need to make them interesting enough and capable enough to hold their own and not be overshadowed, but you also need to make them have a good team synergy that makes them a worthwhile pick in any scenario. I believe with this change, as it takes both solo and together play into account, is possibly the best potential outcome for Wigfrid.

Also, let's all face it, after playing long enough times, Don't Starve feels boring. Balancing someone around the fact "They're easier for noobs to pick up than other person" eventually gets nullified when noobs get more experienced anyway, and effectively keeps the character dead in the water for more experienced play. A good game development likes to keep something intended to be relevant through the entirety of a player's time, should, ideally, balance not around noobs, but balance around longevity of a character.

 

To Summarize: 

• Wigfrid is worse than Wolfgang in every aspect, unless you aren't a good enough player to actually pull off Wolfgang, and you rely on getting health back instead of eating/using healing items. In other words, you can't/don't kite and you never go into a fight well prepared, something only fixed with time, which will then circle back to Wolfgang being undeniably better than Wigfrid, making nearly any argument invalid with enough experience.
• Wigfrid currently suffers from "Pick and Drop" playstyle, where you use the celestial portal to switch, craft a bucket of helmets, then switch back to whoever.
• Giving Wigfrid more craftables extenuates the issue, and does not fix it, nor make her more interesting to play, arguably, it makes her a crafting slave, which makes her incredibly drab and boring.
• When talking about balancing, we need to take both solo and together play into the equation, so it doesn't feel like they're completely useless when outside of their element, which is often.
• Buffing Wigfrid with an intense battle cry shakes up the meta, and adds her among the top ranks.

 

Those are the pure, raw, thoughts of a Wigfrid main that has thought about this subject before Wigfrid V. Wolfgang threads were even made. I never really spoke up because this is a huge wall of text, and it never felt like the right place, and I didn't want to make a thread all about just this analysis.

Please, give me any and all feedback you can, I will do my best to respond to any questions or concerns brought up by what I said here, although, I believe I already answered the most common questions already within this giant wall. Give it a read, if you thought just scrolling down to the bottom for the summary was all you needed to do. I see you, reading cheater...

 

cute your 800h with wigfrid

ive played 4.000h and 99% as wigfrid

WOLFGANG is never a better fighter than her. thats the point. shes not overshadowed by him in any way. shes in all ways better then him. 

wolfgang needs big preparation for armor and weapons and he needs always food, sanity and hp

wig doesnt need any of this. for her its enough to survive from the meat from killed mobs.

like i said i never die in boss fights with her and the player around me die all the time as wolfgang cause he has much lesser real hp then wig.

you always forget when you dont kite: you can make more hits. and for wig that means she gains more hp and sanity. if you kite to much as wig you miss this. thats why you need to know how to fight with her. and if you do shes a beast. wolfgang is nothing compared to her.

but nvm no one knows this.

im trying since ever to get this noob edgy rick to play with me on a server. he as wolf and me as wig and i want to show him how this game should be played. but hes scared...

you can join the server mighty beard. ive nothuing to do with them. but there are some good wig mains. 

i can kill evry boss solo very easy with wig. i can do it also with maxwell but its just much much more time needed and evry mistake you make is a problem.

in hamlet i kill the iron hulk just with my cane as wig. i dont want him to die. i want his rocks but he dies after a while. the pugalisk is dead after 30 sec with wig. wait for him to stop the first time and go on his weak spot and tank the shiii out of him. he will attack you with your head but if you DONT run like all other chars then you can just stunlock him and he dies in 30 sec without moving or doing hes freeze attack.

anyways the best proof that wig is THE BEST OF THE BEST is the fact that she cant drink coffee. just think about it for 3 min.

coffee is the most OP item for boss fights. drinking coffee makes evry boss fight a joke. but in fact if you know how to play as wig you can make evry boss fight a joke without coffee. and shes the only one who can do that.

 

i invite you like i always do to play with me DST and you show me and i show you. dont be like edgy rick whos scared and avoid evry invite of me.

and just btw im playing with lag comp enabled. my pc is a toaster. that means if i do 4 hits to a boss, only 2-3 count and do damage. that means evry boss i fight has nearly doubled his HP. and for example fighting dfly i cant get her to sleep immidiatly when she starts raging. cause when she rages her attack makes a lot of lag and its impossible for me to use the flute without getting hit and set on fire. but thats np as wig

[Rogueagent01]

I agree that Wigfrid is superior to Wolfgang early game , but mid/late game he blows her out of the water. Once you have your dragonpie farms going, along with bundling wrap he can tank practically every boss, without having to kite even once and thats without the aid of bonearmor.

And saying well he needs preparation isn't really a valid argument as you have plenty of downtime during mid/late game runs. That and i hope it was a mistake but you said he needs to prep armor & weapons, so does Wigfrid unless your saying you go in unarmed & without a helm to all your fights.

[Brago-sama]

Hell even early game Wolfgang is superior 

I regularly beat dragonfly before first winter with any character except wigfrid because she refuses to eat blue shrooms and cactus, 2 food items vital for the fight, unless you dosome prep work and somehow make around 10 to 20 perogi.

That and the fact he can run 25 % faster meaning he finishes seeing the map faster. Food even early game is no problem. It is literally everywhere. Berries, carrots, butterflies. I gather so much sometimes I often sometimes let it spoil even with Wolfgang 

[BeliarBAD]

16 minutes ago, Rogueagent01 said:

I agree that Wigfrid is superior to Wolfgang early game , but mid/late game he blows her out of the water. Once you have your dragonpie farms going, along with bundling wrap he can tank practically every boss, without having to kite even once and thats without the aid of bonearmor.

And saying well he needs preparation isn't really a valid argument as you have plenty of downtime during mid/late game runs. That and i hope it was a mistake but you said he needs to prep armor & weapons, so does Wigfrid unless your saying you go in unarmed & without a helm to all your fights.

bro plsssss. gold is easy to get and you get meat as wig all the time from your fights. this fat scary man needs pigskins. if he doesnt make a good pigskin farm and farmm then all the time he will run out of armor if he tanks evry fight.

also a very important point!!!! not only that wigs helmets have 2x duration. that means she can have more armor in her inventory.

for example you fight toadstool. your inventory is full with weather pains and things you need. like 5 dark swords and so on. then wigs helmet give you free space in your inventory. cause her 5 helmets will last 2 times longer then wolfgang helmets. no one ever mentions this fact. they just say ok her 2x longer durabillity is useless. NO ITS NOT. first you will take lesser damage cause when your helmet breaks you take more damage. second you have more inventory space which is very important for example fuelweaver and toadstool. third you can just waste 10 helmets in a fight and it doesnt matter. for wolfgang the same would mean he looses 20!!!!! football helmets. tahts 20 skins and 60 grass. 

6 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

Hell even early game Wolfgang is superior 

I regularly beat dragonfly before first winter with any character except wigfrid because she refuses to eat blue shrooms and cactus, 2 food items vital for the fight, unless you dosome prep work and somehow make around 10 to 20 perogi.

That and the fact he can run 25 % faster meaning he finishes seeing the map faster. Food even early game is no problem. It is literally everywhere. Berries, carrots, butterflies. I gather so much sometimes I often sometimes let it spoil even with Wolfgang 

are you kiidng me. i can kill with wig all bosses till winter lol. dragonfly can be dead on day 3-5. depends how fast i find the pk and dfly biome...

10-20 pierogi??? are you insane?

i need for dfly maximum 5 and only cause i dont kite any attack. for klaus 2-5 pierogi

and thats without doing effort to doge attacks.

if i would try to kill them with very less healing i could do it with 2 pierogi as wig

[Auth]

5 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

bro plsssss. gold is easy to get and you get meat as wig all the time from your fights. this fat scary man needs pigskins. if he doesnt make a good pigskin farm and farmm then all the time he will run out of armor if he tanks evry fight.

also a very important point!!!! not only that wigs helmets have 2x duration. that means she can have more armor in her inventory.

for example you fight toadstool. your inventory is full with weather pains and things you need. like 5 dark swords and so on. then wigs helmet give you free space in your inventory. cause her 5 helmets will last 2 times longer then wolfgang helmets. no one ever mentions this fact. they just say ok her 2x longer durabillity is useless. NO ITS NOT. first you will take lesser damage cause when your helmet breaks you take more damage. second you have more inventory space which is very important for example fuelweaver and toadstool. third you can just waste 10 helmets in a fight and it doesnt matter. for wolfgang the same would mean he looses 20!!!!! football helmets. tahts 20 skins and 60 grass. 

I don't think you realize that THIS:

exists and allows literally any character to get the same equipment Wigfrid has. 

And also: 

100% Damage is still more than 25% damage. Wolfgang, when he tanks, kills things 4X more effectively than Wigfrid. When he tanks, he will never even need to heal as much as Wigfrid because the fight doesn't go on as long as if Wigfrid was to do it. 

Not to mention, that even Wigfrid's gear is outshined by thulecite in both protection and space it takes, which can be gotten incredibly early if you know how to ruins rush, and then infinitely gathered if you kill dragonfly, which, Wolfgang can do easier than Wigfrid due to increased damage. You haven't brought up a single point that proves Wigfrid is better to pick as and continuously play than Wolfgang.

And again, if you literally just kite, armor isn't needed. Face tanking allows you to get an extra 1-2 hits in per kite cycle, which still doesn't add up against Wolfgang's 100% damage boost. Arguably face tanking doesn't save any time against a lot of smaller or less important mobs as the getting hit animation takes the same amount of time as walking cane + natural speedboost kiting.

[BeliarBAD]

Just now, Auth said:

I don't think you realize that THIS:

exists and allows literally any character to get the same equipment Wigfrid has. 

And also: 

100% Damage is still more than 25% damage. Wolfgang, when he tanks, kills things 4x more effectively than Wigfrid. When he tanks, he will never even need to heal as much as Wigfrid because the fight doesn't go on as long as if Wigfrid was to do it. 

yea but he cant tank like her. thats the point. 

ok if we can use the portal to change chars then i change to winona and make catapults and then i change back to wig and i kill ervy boss without taking damage lol.....

yea yea yea. all your points are invalid

and guys. why we dont make a server and we all join and we show. you just write things whhich arent true. i dont say you lie but you dont know.

i wanna see how you join a server as wolfgang and then make armor and weapons and go and tank all bosses   same time i do this as wig

[Rogueagent01]

Why would my inventory be full? I have never used a Weatherpain once when fighting Toadstool its unnecessary and really only speeds up the fight which isn't that important, at least not for me. 

And "bro please" pigskins are also easy to get, in fact just as easy. Let alone as @Auth pointed out Wigfrids armor is not unique to her. 

Ok, if all you want to do is talk about speed as if it is somehow the end all of everything then i'm done, you have made up your mind and talking anymore about this is just pointless.

[Brago-sama]

24 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

are you kiidng me. i can kill with wig all bosses till winter lol. dragonfly can be dead on day 3-5. depends how fast i find the pk and dfly biome...

10-20 pierogi??? are you insane?

i need for dfly maximum 5 and only cause i dont kite any attack. for klaus 2-5 pierogi

and thats without doing effort to doge attacks.

if i would try to kill them with very less healing i could do it with 2 pierogi as wig

Killing dragonfly that quickly is indeed something she can excel at with her regen ability but after that she falls apart when compared to Wolfgang. He explores the world faster with his speed boost, does not have to actively hunt for meat.

By the time klaus comes I usually have around 10 to 12 bunny huts set up, ample food for Wolfgang allowing him to have his 25% speed boost and double attack power, instead of wasting gold and rocks tanking, as you cleanly put it, all Wolfgang wasted is food, a far cheaper thing to waste. And he still beats klaus faster

I will say they're comparable in the beginning but mid to endgame Wolfgang's constant 25% speed boost alone makes him superior. It's the single most important stat in game and he gets a boost in it for free practically. He's not only a better fighter, he just does things faster.

[BeliarBAD]

5 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

Killing dragonfly that quickly is indeed something she can excel at with her regen ability but after that she falls apart when compared to Wolfgang. He explores the world faster with his speed boost, does not have to actively hunt for meat.

By the time klaus comes I usually have around 10 to 12 bunny huts set up, ample food for Wolfgang allowing him to have his 25% speed boost and double attack power, instead of wasting gold and rocks tanking, as you cleanly put it, all Wolfgang wasted is food, a far cheaper thing to waste. And he still beats klaus faster

I will say they're comparable in the beginning but mid to endgame Wolfgang's constant 25% speed boost alone makes him superior. It's the single most important stat in game and he gets a boost in it for free practically. He's not only a better fighter, he just does things faster.

 

 i dont know what you are talking. i kill klaus with 3 helmets and 3 pirogie and hes dead in 1/3 of a day.

wolfgang never has his speedboost other then in fights. its simple math... cooking and gathering so much food to make him all the time being mighty cost much much much more time then you get with his 25% speeed boost.

no one who plays wolfgang is all the time mighty. thats would be insane. you would need to eat all the time.

for example if you wanna explore the world: its faster just to run on the edges in normal speed then gathering food and running in mighty form at the edges of the world.

bro and this shows you havent play this game so much. if you make a berriebush farm with 50 bushes. you know how long it takes to harvest 50 bushes?? then cook them on fire or crockpot? in this time ive killed fuel weaver and end the game

[Brago-sama]

11 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

i dont know what you are talking. i kill klaus with 3 helmets and 3 pirogie and hes dead in 1/3 of a day.

That is not wigfrid that is you as a player with skill being able to come out of a fight as unscathed as that even considering her (poultry) regen ability 

11 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

wolfgang never has his speedboost other then in fights. its simple math... cooking and gathering so much food to make him all the time being mighty cost much much much more time then you get with his 25% speeed boost.

Bunny huts as I previously put. I am CONSTANTLY in buff form after I set them up. The more you farm them, the more you can make as they drop the mats for more except wood. At the very least, I waste less time then you gathering meat ( I assume you don't make bunny huts since if you did, you would see why this argument is complete garbage)

11 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

for example if you wanna explore the world: its faster just to run on the edges in normal speed then gathering food and running in mighty form at the edges of the world.

bro and this shows you havent play this game so much. if you make a berriebush farm with 50 bushes. you know how long it takes to harvest 50 bushes?? then cook them on fire or crockpot? in this time ive killed fuel weaver and end the game

There is so much food everywhere. I finish exploring the edges of the map within day 9 to 10 with constant speed boost, even accounting for the DF fight. The fact that you refuse to see these view points I make proves that YOU don't know enough of the game as you refuse to expand your playstyle beyond simply playing wigfrid. If you did, you would have already discovered how simple Wolfgang is.

[Auth]

4 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

yea but he cant tank like her. thats the point. 

ok if we can use the portal to change chars then i change to winona and make catapults and then i change back to wig and i kill ervy boss without taking damage lol.....

yea yea yea. all your points are invalid

No, he can tank like her. Anybody can tank like Wigfrid. She doesn't heal enough per hit to nullify the fact that you just got hit. Taking 0 damage by kiting is still infinitely better than tanking, albeit, reduced damage. Having mained Wigfrid, I can personally attest to that you are literally spouting nonsense about it. You don't heal back what you take if you stand still and face tank. That's just not how it's done.

Using the "I can make a catapult farm" excuse is hilarious because you tried to make a counter point that Wolfgang has a longer setup time than Wigfrid. A catapult farm takes up more time than that possibly could, so that point is incredibly hypocritical, not to mention irrelevant to the conversation of Wigfrid V Wolfgang because the character you're playing at that point doesn't even matter, as you aren't the one getting your hands dirty.

You also responded before I had a chance to finish the rest of my post. Here:

12 minutes ago, Auth said:

Not to mention, that even Wigfrid's gear is outshined by thulecite in both protection and space it takes, which can be gotten incredibly early if you know how to ruins rush, and then infinitely gathered if you kill dragonfly, which, Wolfgang can do easier than Wigfrid due to increased damage. You haven't brought up a single point that proves Wigfrid is better to pick as and continuously play for the entire world's duration as opposed to Wolfgang.

And again, if you literally just kite, armor isn't even needed. Face tanking allows you to get an extra 1-2 hits in per kite cycle, which still doesn't add up against Wolfgang's 100% damage boost. Arguably face tanking doesn't even save any time against a lot of smaller or less important mobs as the getting hit animation takes the same amount of time as walking cane + natural speedboost kiting.

 

You seem to be wrapped up that in just because Wigfrid can do well, and because you do well as Wigfrid, then she must be the undeniable best character in the game in terms of combat. Nonsense.

You keep asking for people to prove to you that Wolfgang can be better. That's unnecessary, because no matter what you'll be able to make up any excuse that points towards you holding the truth. Instead, I offer you this. Play Wolfgang for yourself. Experience the difference and actually play the game with effort, not haphazardly so you can feel you justified your point. 

Speedrunning bosses isn't how you talk about balance. You don't balance all of Super Mario 64 discussion around it's speedrunning community. That would be nonsense.

Saying that just because Wigfrid can walk up next to Dragonfly and kill them early game isn't how to balance someone. Wolfgang can do that too, in fact, The current best recorded speed for killing Dragonfly from world creation > dfly dying is done by a Wolfgang. That blows that point away completely, not to mention the fact it's done without walls or even the panflute. And if you watch, you'll notice that the primary attack style is... you guessed it, face tanking. Wolfgang can do it just as easily as Wigfrid! Same person also has A speedrun for Enraged dragonfly.

We are talking about the longevity of a world. Actually playing the game. This game isn't played as a race to destroy every boss, it's played as a survival game. You can play it any way you like, but balancing characters around their speedrun-abilityness is absurd, when the conversation at hand is trying to justify playing the character for the entire duration of a world in a normal circumstance. You also aren't taking into account the looooong durations of time that happen in between the fights. Bosses don't immediately respawn, which gives you more than enough ample time to gather resources, no matter who you're playing as.

[BeliarBAD]

6 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

Bunny huts as I previously put. I am CONSTANTLY in buff form after I set them up. The more you farm them, the more you can make as they drop the mats for more except wood. At the very least, I waste less time then you gathering meat ( I assume you don't make bunny huts since if you did, you would see why this argument is complete garbage)

i did this in the past. befriend one and they kill each other. but this takes to long for me. i never need food. for wolf very good food ressources

 

6 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

There is so much food everywhere. I finish exploring the edges of the map within day 9 to 10 with constant speed boost, even accounting for the DF fight. The fact that you refuse to see these view points I make proves that YOU don't know enough of the game as you refuse to expand your playstyle beyond simply playing wigfrid. If you did, you would have already discovered how simple Wolfgang is.

i bet ive more hours as wolfgang then you. you dont count the picking and walking to the berries and cooking them. 

5 minutes ago, Auth said:

No, he can tank like her. Anybody can tank like Wigfrid. She doesn't heal enough per hit to nullify the fact that you just got hit. Taking 0 damage by kiting is still infinitely better than tanking, albeit, reduced damage. Having mained Wigfrid, I can personally attest to that you are literally spouting nonsense about it. You don't heal back what you take if you stand still and face tank. That's just not how it's done.

Using the "I can make a catapult farm" excuse is hilarious because you tried to make a counter point that Wolfgang has a longer setup time than Wigfrid. A catapult farm takes up more time than that possibly could, so that point is incredibly hypocritical, not to mention irrelevant to the conversation of Wigfrid V Wolfgang because the character you're playing at that point doesn't even matter, as you aren't the one getting your hands dirty.

You also responded before I had a chance to finish the rest of my post. Here:

 

You seem to be wrapped up that in just because Wigfrid can do well, and because you do well as Wigfrid, then she must be the undeniable best character in the game in terms of combat. Nonsense.

You keep asking for people to prove to you that Wolfgang can be better. That's unnecessary, because no matter what you'll be able to make up any excuse that points towards you holding the truth. Instead, I offer you this. Play Wolfgang for yourself. Experience the difference and actually play the game with effort, not haphazardly so you can feel you justified your point. 

Speedrunning bosses isn't how you talk about balance. You don't balance all of Super Mario 64 discussion around it's speedrunning community. That would be nonsense.

Saying that just because Wigfrid can walk up next to Dragonfly and kill them early game isn't how to balance someone. Wolfgang can do that too, in fact, The current best recorded speed for killing Dragonfly from world creation > dfly dying is done by a Wolfgang. That blows that point away completely, not to mention the fact it's done without walls or even the panflute. And if you watch, you'll notice that the primary attack style is... you guessed it, face tanking. Wolfgang can do it just as easily as Wigfrid! Same person also has A speedrun for Enraged dragonfly.

We are talking about the longevity of a world. Actually playing the game. This game isn't played as a race to destroy every boss, it's played as a survival game. You can play it any way you like, but balancing characters around their speedrun-abilityness is absurd, when the conversation at hand is trying to justify playing the character for the entire duration of a world in a normal circumstance. You also aren't taking into account the looooong durations of time that happen in between the fights. Bosses don't immediately respawn, which gives you more than enough ample time to gather resources, no matter who you're playing as.

wig has 25% defence bonus. saying any char can tank like wig is the ridicilous thing ive ever heard 

nvm we wont get anything from talking. you cna show me and i can show you. if you dont want its fine. see ya guys

[Auth]

I literally posted the world records for dragonfly.

[BeliarBAD]

1 minute ago, Auth said:

I literally posted the world records for dragonfly.

speedruns arent real gameplay. ik this guys which hold the records...

he did the kill in 2 days and then he shut down the game. playing with wolfgang 1000+ days is hell

[Brago-sama]

49 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

i did this in the past. befriend one and they kill each other. but this takes to long for me. i never need food. for wolf very good food ressources

Try it my man. They drop everything but the boards to make more huts. Once you get like 20 you will literally have stacks of food rotting in the fridge, or even better if you have bundling wraps, just farm a bunch once, store it in the wraps and forget why this game is called dont starve.

49 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

i bet ive more hours as wolfgang then you. you dont count the picking and walking to the berries and cooking them.

Alright then, by day 10 to 12, have you gathered 80 charcoal, 40 grass  60 ropes 80 rocks, 120 twigs (all for crockpots and 20 drying racks), hambat, a football helm, prefabed a chest, alchemy machine, a scaled furnace, a fridge, fire pit, lighting rod, one pig and one bunny hut, have a stack of 40 carrots and 40 berries,  a stack of rot along, 20 gold a few gears, a stack of boards. edit: a lantern. 

All that on top of having explored the whole map (the edges) and beaten dragonfly, because I can do that with Wolfgang regularly on a pub server.

Also really, flexing your playtime. Considering what you've written down this far, it shows you need to play more then even that

Edit: Being more specific 

[BeliarBAD]

1 minute ago, Brago-sama said:

Try it my man. They drop everything but the boards to make more huts. Once you get like 20 you will literally have stacks of food rotting in the fridge, or even better if you have bundling wraps, just farm a bunch once, store it in the wraps and forget why this game is called dont starve.

Alright then, by day 10 to 12, have you gathered 80 charcoal, 60 ropes 80 rocks, 120 twigs (all for crockpots and 20 drying racks) prefabed a chest, alchemy machine, a scaled furnace, a fridge, fire pit, lighting rod, one pig and one bunny hut, have a stack of 40 carrots and 40 berries,  a stack of rot along, 20 gold a few gears, a stack of boards.

All that on top of having explored the whole map and beaten dragonfly, because I can do that with Wolfgang regularly on a pub server

you wanna see my world? ive deticated server you can join.

you wanna see my hamlet world with wigfrid?

theres nothing i cant do with wig

[Captain_Rage]

9 hours ago, Misa22 said:

It would be could if she had some unique stuff when mounting a beefalo, you know, warrior on a horse and all that stuff... 

Give her the ability to ride Koalefants (?). All in all Wigfrid is already balanced™ and unique. It could be fun to see her wielding a spear while riding a Koalefant though. Or give her a unicorn standard for when riding Beefaloes, that would do something amaaaazing.

 

EDIT:

OKAY GUYS, IN A MOMENT OF CLARITY A VISION APPEARED BEFORE ME -

The standard held by the mounted battlemaiden shall rally all nearby Koalefants, who shall follow her gracefully and engage the same target as her and her proud Beefalo.

Pros: you can raise a Koalefant army (or cap the followers to x), it would be fun to put unemployed and accumulated Koalefants to use, and it still wouldn't be too OP, since giants still slay Koalefants but could give you some fun mechanic and edge in combant against lesser mobs (and let Wigfrid take on Wargs and Ewecuses with her Beefalo and Koalefant followers). It would basically be a silly and unique combat mechanic to have Koalefants help you out when fighting on top a Beefalo.

[Brago-sama]

Well that is actually a nice world, and I'd love to play, but I am a peasant ps4 player ;_; (yes yes laugh it up)

 

Look my dude, I do not doubt what wigfrid is capable of, and she can make great worlds as long as the player has the skill and motivation ( nice looking world from the screenshots by the way, shows you get things done) . She is NOT an F tier or C tier character by any definition (or at least mine), but I consider Wolfgang to be of a higher tier for one good reason. 

 that sweet sweet speed buff Wolfgang has

 If he didn't have that they would be equal, hell wigfrid might have even be better longterm. but speed is a valuable stat, arguably the best or at least tied to strength. Wolfgang has it almost for free on top of that delicious double damage. With it he just gets things done faster. The whole point of the game is to do things before certain dates arrive.

Also I wanted to say it in the last post but forgot. Dont cook berries and carrots. They rot faster and give negligible return on what they give vs time wasted cooking. Eating raw is preferred 

 

[BeliarBAD]

16 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

Well that is actually a nice world, and I'd love to play, but I am a peasant ps4 player ;_; (yes yes laugh it up)

 

Look my dude, I do not doubt what wigfrid is capable of, and she can make great worlds as long as the player has the skill and motivation ( nice looking world from the screenshots by the way, shows you get things done) . She is NOT an F tier or C tier character by any definition (or at least mine), but I consider Wolfgang to be of a higher tier for one good reason

 that sweet sweet speed buff Wolfgang has

 If he didn't have that they would be equal, hell wigfrid might have even be better longterm. but speed is a valuable stat, arguably the best or at least tied to strength. Wolfgang has it almost for free on top of that delicious double damage. With it he just gets things done faster. The whole point of the game is to do things before certain dates arrive.

Also I wanted to say it in the last post but forgot. Dont cook berries and carrots. They rot faster and give negligible return on what they give vs time wasted cooking. Eating raw is preferred 

 

ok now i agree with you. i just hate his animation evry few min when he transforms. 

[Brago-sama]

15 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

ok now i agree with you

I mean you don't have to agree with me. 

Hmm, maybe I worded my conversation too harshly.

 They both have cons and pros. Wigfrid does have pros that I could see why you would like her. Her regen ability does allow her to handle bosses easier if you aren't perfect with kiting so there is that. Along with her base defense you do have calm of mind during a fight. (Also I'm pretty sure you can tank a vaarg and kill it with almost no hp lost, I'm sure you've seen the video)

Look man I just prefer Wolfgang and my opinion is that I like him better because he fits my playstyle like a puzzle piece 

Maybe you prefer wigfrid because it fits your playstyle. It's just a game after all, play how you like I ain't your boss and this isn't work. Wigfrid is a fine choice, choose her if you have fun with her

Can we just play the game now please

[darkhero]

about the that some saying new items are not good because of "Picked and dropped".

what if some of her items could be used just by herself?. like, when other players want to pick her advanced spear they say: an experienced fighter can use it, not me  

or about saddle too. give her a saddle that just herself can ride with it.