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Furio

Dupes won't deliver coal to generator

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Furio    0

Anyone know why my dupes are ignoring delivering coal to my generator? I have tons of coal (the bin next to the generator only stores coal).

Even with Top Priority, they won't deliver any coal. I've ensure that Supply is a priority for my dupe, but the task isn't even on the list.

I've tried destroying it and building a new. Didn't help. The dupes do know of the coals existence because they don't have a problem delivering coal to my kilns.

I suspect it might be a bug, but I might just be overlooking something.

ONI coal bug.jpg

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Furio    0

Hm, after having rebuilt it, it might be 50% I usually set them to 20%

I'll try messing with the percentages and see if that fixes it. I'm still new to this game.

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Sasza22    2,099

The battery seems full. If it`s not below 50% they won`t deliver. It`s a poor mans smart battery from before automation was implemented.

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Furio    0

I believe you're right. I set it to 80% and that helped. So not a bug.

Cheers.

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beowulf2010    487
1 hour ago, Furio said:

I believe you're right. I set it to 80% and that helped. So not a bug.

Yeah. The percentage on the coal and manual generators aren't immediately obvious. If there aren't any batteries on the circuit that the generator can see that are less than the generator's set percentage, the the generator is off and can't be filled by dupes or autosweeper. 

A coal generator can only be filled when it's actively trying to run. 

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hacksaw12    22
2 hours ago, Furio said:

Anyone know why my dupes are ignoring delivering coal to my generator? I have tons of coal (the bin next to the generator only stores coal).

My experience has been, if you have a critical circuit powered by a coal gene, install a sweeper as soon as possible. If not, you have to micromanage a lot, and probably use the red alert to keep it running.

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Sasza22    2,099
19 hours ago, hacksaw12 said:

My experience has been, if you have a critical circuit powered by a coal gene, install a sweeper as soon as possible. If not, you have to micromanage a lot, and probably use the red alert to keep it running.

I never had problems with those on the other hand. I just had smart batteries on the circuit and the priority on 7 or 8 and it was always filled. But it might have been beacause i usually connect all my generators to one power system so it gives time for dupes to deliver the coal when batteries go low.

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hacksaw12    22
22 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

But it might have been beacause i usually connect all my generators to one power system so it gives time for dupes to deliver the coal when batteries go low.

I suspect this. In early and mid game, I generally use small individual power systems rather than a central system. But I always use smart batteries, and set high priority for the gene. I've also tried setting the battery regulator to start the gene at 75 or 80%, which helps some. But nothing I've seen does as well as a sweeper for keeping it loaded.

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Saturnus    3,229

Set the coal gen % to the same as the turn off % on the smart battery. No higher. No lower.

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bobucles    296

Coal generators are very finicky because they generate jobs based on battery percentage, not their own internal storage. It's pretty confusing. If coal generators are shut off by an automation signal, they will not generate refill tasks. If they are shut off during a refill task, the task will fail. Because of these issues, smart coal is a lot harder to maintain than it probably should be.

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Nightinggale    959
1 minute ago, bobucles said:

Coal generators are very finicky because they generate jobs based on battery percentage, not their own internal storage. It's pretty confusing. If coal generators are shut off by an automation signal, they will not generate refill tasks. If they are shut off during a refill task, the task will fail. Because of these issues, smart coal is a lot harder to maintain than it probably should be.

You know, Klei aren't likely to notice every single post. Odds for Klei noticing what you write and doing something about it would be much greater if you replied to the bug report I wrote yesterday about coal generators being confusing to use. There is a link to it earlier in this thread. Also for those who haven't noticed, the bug report system is part of the forum and we can comment on bugs posted by other people.

While we shouldn't spam the bug report system, we should use it for useful information like this, particularly when there is an existing bug report to reply to.

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mathmanican    2,251
1 hour ago, Nightinggale said:

You know, Klei aren't likely to notice every single post

The info he shared has been well known for more than 18 months and not changed. The devs stopped keeping the bug tracker up-to-date long ago as well. They read stuff and respond to what they want.

Here is an old bug report.

And this one is rare as they tagged it as known.

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Nightinggale    959
7 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

The info he shared has been well known for more than 18 months and not changed. The devs stopped keeping the bug tracker up-to-date long ago as well. They read stuff and respond to what they want.

So you are saying it's known that the coal generator is confusing and broken, but nobody at Klei does anything about it? :o

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mathmanican    2,251
5 minutes ago, Nightinggale said:

So you are saying it's known that the coal generator is confusing and broken, but nobody at Klei does anything about it?

Precisely. You nailed it.

To be fair, the real issue is that this particular problem has not risen to the top of their priorities. They have been doing amazing things instead.

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Nightinggale    959

I updated the bug report to tell Klei how to make the coal generator. I would love to use a coal generator like I wrote. To sum it up:

Add 2 sliders like in a smart battery, but link it to the coal storage. Once stored coal is below the low amount, create a task to fill up to the high level slider. Coal is only added if the battery is below the threshold (like now).

If an automation wire is attached, ignore the battery threshold. Instead run the same code and assume the battery to always be empty.

No automation and no battery: run the generator all the time.

 

This should make the coal generator much easier to control accurately in early game without wasting lots of coal while at the same time once it's controlled by automation it will become much more like the other generators. That will actually make the coal generators useful. Let's hope they actually do something about it now that I gave them a more detailed plan (instead of the fix this) and the fact that they they are coming out of early access.

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mathmanican    2,251
16 minutes ago, Nightinggale said:

Let's hope they actually do something about it now that I gave them a more detailed plan

You are not the first to suggest this, nor probably the last. I put one example of a year old link in your report. This topic has been hashed and rehashed tons of times, to no avail....

One thing I have not seen yet is someone who made a mod to create the building you suggest. Probably because modding support is quite new. This might make a change? Or maybe they won't change it because it has been modded? Who knows?

Reporting the bug and/or making a suggestion has led to nothing for a really long time. 

If you ever encounter something you find odd in the game, feel free to ask in the forums if it's well known. We are generally friendly. Some issues have been around so long we just learned how to work around them.

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Nightinggale    959
3 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

One thing I have not seen yet is someone who made a mod to create the building you suggest. Probably because modding support is quite new. This might make a change? Or maybe they won't change it because it has been modded? Who knows?

It's a good question. Are you saying I should make a mod for it and then give it to Klei? I did look in the code before proposing anything and I know how to do a great part of it. The question is what to do about the stuff, that I don't know how to do? Here I'm particularly thinking about delivering coal because I haven't looked at the chore system at all. Despite having added plenty of buildings, none of them are dupe interactive, hence not related to chores.

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mathmanican    2,251
10 minutes ago, Nightinggale said:

Are you saying I should make a mod for it and then give it to Klei?

I'm saying such a thing has not yet been done. Whether you want to be that someone or not is your call.

Trying something new to get them to notice and make a change may be more fruitful than repeating bug fixes and suggestions. It might not. They did eventually fix the steam turbine after more than a year of complaints. 

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Nightinggale    959

I started fixing the coal generator and it turns out that it's not as trivial as I thought. Maybe that's why Klei haven't fixed it.

However I removed the "check battery" code and the resulting code to pause deliveries on low battery. This means now deliveries happens at all time regardless of batteries, which makes it act more like other generators, including being able to run without any batteries. I added a slider, which sets the refill threshold. If I set it to 300, the dupes will fill it to 300.

I added another slider, which sets the threshold for when to add more coal and that one isn't working. Either they stick to "when at least 100 kg is missing" or they won't deliver. I guess getting rid of this slider and relying on the 100 kg is the best solution at this point.

I found the cause of why deliveries are turned off by automation. There is some work in fixing it, but it seems doable meaning deliveries will not be interrupted by turning off the automation signal.

Last, but not least, I plan to reintroducing the check battery code to turn off deliveries. However I plan to do it in a way where if automation is connected, assume low battery without checking. This means once automation is used (bigger, more advanced bases), the coal generator becomes more FPS friendly.

I plan on using the battery code from my battery sensor instead of the vanilla code. That way instead of looking at all batteries and just use the lowest, it will add up joules and capacity and assume they are all one big battery. This means if you set it to 25%, it will enable deliveries when the combined battery has below 25% charge. This means it won't start if you have 10 full batteries and one empty. Setting coal to 100 and battery recharge rate to 25%, then if you have two jumbo batteries, the coal generator will deliver precisely the amount of joules needed to recharge both and then it's out until dupes deliver again. That makes it realistic to use the coal generator without frequently charging full batteries.

It sure is more work than planned, but at least it seems like the result will be really nice. Maybe I will actually end up using coal generators in early and mid game. It has always annoyed me they are so hard to control prior to automation and with automation it's so much easier to just use natural gas because it's so far into the game.

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SharraShimada    473

Has anybody thought about the possibility, Klei wants it that way, because the consider coal generators as starter tech, and should be replaced soon, while your power grid becomes more and more complex? Coal generators are fine in the early stages, but later there are better ones. 

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PhailRaptor    937
4 hours ago, SharraShimada said:

Has anybody thought about the possibility, Klei wants it that way, because the consider coal generators as starter tech, and should be replaced soon, while your power grid becomes more and more complex? Coal generators are fine in the early stages, but later there are better ones. 

If that were the case, I would expect some of the Hatch varieties to produce something other than Coal.  You're going to Ranch Hatches for the Egg Shells and Meat, so you're gonna get Coal.  The only ways to use Coal are the Generator and the Kiln.

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SharraShimada    473
26 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said:

If that were the case, I would expect some of the Hatch varieties to produce something other than Coal.  You're going to Ranch Hatches for the Egg Shells and Meat, so you're gonna get Coal.  The only ways to use Coal are the Generator and the Kiln.

True, but you can also get tons and tons of coal from rockets. Way more as you need.

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