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Superlucas1231    145
Posted (edited)

EDIT: This is more so of comparing Winona's catapults and Wicker's On tentacles book. Wicker is still top tier because of her utility. I just want to see if people rather prefer the catapult over tentacles, or vice versa.  

With the new update and the arrival of boats, Winona is now able to make a somewhat offensive boat for fighting mobs on land and (eventually) over the sea. 

But since Winona has a way to attack bosses off land via catapults, where does that leave Wicker?

Winona can easily cheese the seasonal giants, beequeen, and even dragonfly; Meanwhile, Wicker needs to have more prep time to kill most of the surface giants, with some of them being near unkillable via on tentacles.

The only drawback Winona might encounter is the world gen, but she'll still be able to kill the seasonal giants anyways.

Edited by Superlucas1231
Clarifying the topic
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Superlucas1231    145
5 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Wicker doesn't need to be paired with Winona here cuz tentacles simply aren't the same as catapults at all... 

range vs melee

 

It's less of one is ranged and the other is melee, its how tentacles get screwed over by aoes Meanwhile, catapults don't have to worry about aoes if they aren't in range of the aoe in the first place.

That and you don't need to worry about getting stun locked to death when you're trying to getting loot.

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FreyaMaluk    4,458
4 minutes ago, Superlucas1231 said:

 

It's less of one is ranged and the other is melee, its how tentacles get screwed over by aoes Meanwhile, catapults don't have to worry about aoes if they aren't in range of the aoe in the first place.

That and you don't need to worry about getting stun locked to death when you're trying to getting loot.

What i mean is that they don't belong in the same category, nor they are supposed to be. 

Winona's catapults are op compared with tentacles and I don't think tentacles needs a buff just cuz catapults are way better. 

Again. I suggested before ammo for catapults to make them somewhat balanced also that they require fixing from time to time. 

But asking tentacles to be leveled up to catapults makes no sense when it's clear catapults need to be tunned down. 

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GetNerfedOn    1,496

Imo I wouldnt say Wicker was powercrept. Her strengths still lie mostly within her great early start, farming resources and Krampii. 

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Datanon    209
35 minutes ago, Superlucas1231 said:

beequeen, and even dragonfly

these and the antlion are really the only ones you want to use tentacles or catapults with. if youre not killing bearger and deerclops with tree guardians youre missing on the best source of logs and living logs in the game, and the Goose/Goose is barely even useful to kill after the first time

youre right though. the catapults are better and safer than tentacles, specially because theyre kind of invulnerable right now

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lifetheuniverse    1,884

I kinda like the idea of cataboats, but I think it should come with the caveat of flying mobs being able to ignore the ocean border and just roll right up and smack you out of the water like the absolute gangsters they are.
Once coasts are expanded upon (they're barely visible but are present right now), let ground-based mobs at least walk around through that part of the water.

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CrimXane    171
8 hours ago, Superlucas1231 said:

With the new update and the arrival of boats, Winona is now able to make a somewhat offensive boat for fighting mobs on land and (eventually) over the sea. 

But since Winona has a way to attack bosses off land via catapults, where does that leave Wicker?

Winona can easily cheese the seasonal giants, beequeen, and even dragonfly; Meanwhile, Wicker needs to have more prep time to kill most of the surface giants, with some of them being near unkillable via on tentacles.

The only drawback Winona might encounter is the world gen, but she'll still be able to kill the seasonal giants anyways.

that leaves wicker as where she was, the best farmer, the best to get krampus sack, the best  at the start of the game, the best at doing everything for the team, and..... The End is Nigh ?
Darts ?
bull kelp roots ?


also i see this " if i kill, im the best " theme.
no, the game isn't just about killing stuff.
~~i think someone just dies a lot to giants~~


" But since Winona has a way to attack bosses off land via catapults, where does that leave Wicker? "

you very well make it sound like killing stuff is the goal of the game.

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Lakurius    344
1 hour ago, CrimXane said:

you very well make it sound like killing stuff is the goal of the game.

it kinda is tho..

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x0VERSUS1y    2,686
Posted (edited)

Wickerbottom is an all-rounded overpowered character - she can farm plants, birds, Krampi, bosses, she can put mobs to sleep, and zap them (overcharging WX in the process, thus also contributing to map exploration).

Winona can kill bosses (small-fry mobs too if you really like that/find it useful in relation to classic kiting via Spear/Ham Bat/etc), but also consuming a lot of resources in the process - so more of a mid-to-end game feature if wanting it done efficiently. Sure she can also 1/2 faster build.. a good bonus, yet not that overwhelmingly important in the end.

 

So implying "Winona powercrepts Wicker".. kinda stretches it out. Sure you can make boats with catapults now... if WorldGen also proverbially smiles upon your map in DF or BQ's cases. For seasonal bosses though most efficient way is still the good ol' Hambat and Walking Cane - or use them boss-mobs (Bear and Deer), as others stated above, in farming Wood and Living Logs.

Edited by x0VERSUS1y
*additions and corrections*
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CrimXane    171

how are people comparing Wilson 2.0 + catapults 
To the Best Character in the game. Like What.

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Superlucas1231    145

Let me rephrase: 

Did the catapults powercrept On tentacles?

Yeah, Wicker still is better in literally every other category (overcharging wx, krampi farming, farming berries, etc...) 

But my original point was asking if catapults are more viable to use than tentacles. Especially when considering the DPS difference between the two, aoe, aggro, AI, etc. 

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deerBamboo    19

First, winona already can use her catapults to deal with bosses like dfly and bee queen right after the rework. The boat update doesn't change this. For high health bosses like dfly and beequeen, one can setup two sets of 9 catapults. It's a very efficient way if u want to spend the least effort to farm df's and bq's drop every 20 days. The most outstanding cost of material is the one time cost of 270 rocks. As long as one knows how to deal with df rage in time, none of the catapults will be destroyed. But if you realy want to do it on boats, a set of catapults must be reduced to just 6, which is only 2/3 the efficiency. Not to mention the bosses need to be close enough to water or they will despawn. So I don't think boats bring any difference to the power of catapults winona already has.

Second, wicker's power isn't just about tentacles. I would say she's bascially the base manager with the ability of making grass twig farm almost a one time thing and storing up tons of berries( and maybe also cacti) before winter comes. And she's also capable of charging wx, farming sack during first winter and such.

If I must compare tentacles and catapults, I would say catapults better especially early on since all u need is just mine rocks and get gems, which can be obtain fairly easy from bishop or grave( for the first time usage after that you should already have plenty to spare), while on tentacle needs a bit of luck on tentacle drops and might hv a lil problem on collecting the drops and most importantly it's not a one time setup and need maintenance. The drop from the killed tentacle should be able to maintain the whole arena though. And there is one more unstable factor about on tentacle that is tentacles don't always spawn evenly around the grass wall area( with five books). So I've actually encountered times when bq did win over the tentacles, not all of them died but only very few left scattered around grass wall and not dense enough to finish off bq and her minions, but of course u can finish her off urself. Btw, I've also tried the wall outside tentacle inside way too. Just need too many grass and twigs, despite the cost and the difficulty to set it up, its definitely much more efficient than the most common wall inside tentalce outside way, but you will need at least 15ish-wall thick area to make sure the tentacles won't spawn outside the wall.

Well, anyway, these are all my experience. Hope it helps

 

(whisper:start with winona after setting up the catapults change into wicker ;D)

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00petar00    10
Posted (edited)

I don't understand, i am not a Winona expert but Wickerbottom is my favorite characters to play as.

From what i've seen on youtube they always use like 30-40 catapults or more for bee queen which seems really expensive compared to Wickerbottom. Let's compare, i'll use 7 On tentacles books if i want to kill her multiple times without all my tentacles dying out on the first kill. It is much easier to gather 7 spots, is there a need to talk about reeds? just find an area with a lot of them and keep regrowing.

TheBeard777 youtuber actually used 77 catapults.. It is the top video on youtube if you search for it.That's so bad..

Dragonfly is much easier to deal with as Wickerbottom, you use sleepytime stories when dragonfly is enraged so she doesn't destroy your tentacles with the aoe attack, you'll be able to kill her multiple times with 6 on  tentacles books, can kill her with 5, possibly with 4 but i never tried as i want to keep as many tentacles alive to keep killing her for gems.

Wickerbottom is still the strongest  character in  my opinion, requires the least resources to kill most bosses.

Winona's catapults are more of a permanent solution, doesn't require much to keep them going and killing the same boss but with Wickerbottom you can kill anything you like with enough tentacles and it requires much less to set up.

What i want to say is you need to know how to kite tentacles and kill them quickly. I often use ham bat and spend a few days in swamp and i have more then i need to kill bee queen and dragonfly if i spent 2-3 days there, 1 day is often fine if you get a bit lucky if you want to kill one of them.

Also don't ignore all the other benefits Wickerbottom has:

Killing Bee Queen/Dragon Fly faster then any other character, if someone is going to argue this point im willing to play a speedrun with them on the same server while they play Winona. Gathering 12 spots to kill both bosses is much easier then building that many catapults.

Only character that actually has the option to farm Krampus sack so easily.How nice is it that we Wickerbottom players are the only ones who can farm krampus sack and azure feathers for the best blow dart at the same time.

She is good  to start with but this doesn't matter much to any decent player, you should be able to survive with any character no matter how bad their first days are but i guess this is still a benefit.

Wickerbottom is better at gathering grass/twigs/wood/berries/morsels then any other character. You may say that Maxwell is best for gathering wood which he is until Bearger spawns.This requires a specific situation but, you use applied horticulture in a full field of planted cones next to Bearger.You'll have tons of wood. It requires to wait for Bearger but it only needs to be set up once for you to have so much wood and it is repeatable as long as you don't kill him or wait for  him to respawn.

Its a decent argument saying how it takes a while for  him to spawn but you can't argue that at that point she is better then Maxwell at gathering wood and this game is all about convenience, you are trying to make it easier on yourself from gathering and repeating the same boring tasks like gathering grass/wood/twigs/berries, this is why Wicker is so good and fun to play.

One of the biggest benefits is Lichen farming with agriculture, you know that youtuber that always talks about Lichen, well he is talking about it for a reason. Best food source in the game, you can kill bee queen pretty fast so you'll be able to wrap up the Lichen that spoils in 2 days, hammer a few Bunnyman hutches, 8 on DST and build them near your base with a spider nest and there's your food permanently solved. Even if you don't make this farm, there's usually a lot of monster meat around and is quite easy to gather by killing spiders, use tentacle book near a few spider nests and just pick up the meat in the morning.

Just have a ton of crockpots in your base and wrap up stacks of Pierogi, can any other character do this?

Beeboxes are good food source too but require more preparation, they are usually better for any other character because most of them can't kill bee queen so fast and none of them can farm Lichen as fast as she does.

 

I can keep on writing on how good Wickerbottom is, she has countless benefits and  hardly any negatives,

Food spoilage is this an issue for Wickerbottom? you'll have Bundling Wrap as soon as you want to get it. So she only has one negative which is not being able to sleep. Sanity is the least of your worries in this game and actually having it low is useful for farming nightmare fuel, only time you should sleep is when you want to regen hp but have a lot of food that is going to spoil, you see where im going with this? as Wicker you won't have any food spoiling with Bundling wrap so sleeping isn't worth doing.

Sanity is easily managable if you keep exploring the map to gather mushrooms on the way and bundling wrap should be used on cooked cactus or hop into caves and chop some mushrooms, otherwise just stay insane, get nightmare fuel for magiluminescence.

So downsides are pretty negligible and they don't even come close to positives.

 

You are talking about Winona being able to cheese bosses with boats? honestly i don't know much as i didn't play on the beta branch, waiting for public release, what i can say is that i've never seen dragonfly spawn close to water, same with Bee Queen. She should be able to cheese bearger and deerclops? but do these bosses even matter? They are actually so easy to kill and where will you get your logs and living logs if  you don't use them?

Edited by 00petar00
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GetNerfedOn    1,496
On 5/24/2019 at 3:44 AM, Superlucas1231 said:

Let me rephrase: 

Did the catapults powercrept On tentacles?

Yeah, Wicker still is better in literally every other category (overcharging wx, krampi farming, farming berries, etc...) 

But my original point was asking if catapults are more viable to use than tentacles. Especially when considering the DPS difference between the two, aoe, aggro, AI, etc. 

Catapults have lesser risk compared Tentacles imo, so catapults it is.

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ShadowDuelist    3,027
On 5/23/2019 at 4:44 PM, Superlucas1231 said:

But my original point was asking if catapults are more viable to use than tentacles. Especially when considering the DPS difference between the two, aoe, aggro, AI, etc. 

Sort of? You can make an efficient tentacle farm to kill bee queen at least twice, in less than 10 days, whereas you can't make a catapults farm until lategame when you are already flooding in rocks, twigs and gems.

I think they are two very different things with two different uses in different moments of the game.

Even though they belong to different characters, from a teamplay point of view I think its like comparing log suits and the bone armor: you can continue using log suits througout the whole game, or move on to just use the bone armor. However you can make log suits way more easily and efficiently in the early game, although once you get bone armors its probably just more efficient to use that.

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Hell-met    853
Posted (edited)

you're comparing a char that had its major update with another that did not.

Edited by Hell-met
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