A Proper Discussion of Willow's Rework, and why it has no Impact Whatsoever

[Mr.Mulk]

4 minutes ago, Hatano Eichero said:

Yeah but the problem is I never said it wasn't a critique.

I wasn't the one who started the literacy thing.

This argument is getting redundant anyways.

I don't recall making a pedantic argument earlier, the first person to whip out definitions from what I've seen is you.

And yeah it is getting redundant, however be aware I am more than happy to continue as needed, solely because I care that much. I want Willow to be well-balanced and fun, and I don't think the rework design given will work towards this end. I've given my reasons, and I stand by them (and it seems based on the reaction I'm not the only one holding this opinion).

[h2mk]

Just now, TheKingDedede said:

Can we at least wait until the update actually comes out before we get threads critiquing the changes?

 

[Canis]

59 minutes ago, Hatano Eichero said:

My concern here is that fire immunity isn't even useful in practice and it barely matters whether or not it is in game.

 

57 minutes ago, Trenix said:

But yet that's the main thing people want. Also there is a stun with fire, which it seems to give you more hits on a mob. It's no wonder why everyone wants to exploit for their own gain

>get more hits on a mob
>exploit

*laughs in Winona*

[Mr.Mulk]

One thing that's not adding up to me is this idea that Fire Immunity allows for these supposed double secret fire damage strats.
Believe it or not you don't actually need Fire Immunity for solid fire damage strats.

In fact you don't need Fire Resistance:

Spoiler

 

So if that's the case then why is it people aren't utilizing this apparently astounding powerful ability as current Willow?
 

[h2mk]

Just now, Canis said:

 

>get more hits on a mob
>exploit

*laughs in Winona*

What does my quote have anything to do with it?

[Canis]

Just now, Hatano Eichero said:

What does my quote have anything to do with it?

It was half for the reason that his quote was answering yours, and half because I completely forgot I quoted you.

 

 

Yup.

[h2mk]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Mulk said:

One thing that's not adding up to me is this idea that Fire Immunity allows for these supposed double secret fire damage strats.
Believe it or not you don't actually need Fire Immunity for solid fire damage strats.

In fact you don't need Fire Resistance:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So if that's the case then why is it people aren't utilizing this apparently astounding powerful ability as current Willow?
 

W-

Trenix stopped posting here a while ago, who is this directed towards?

[Mr.Mulk]

2 minutes ago, Hatano Eichero said:

W-

Trenix stopped posting here a while ago, who is this directed towards?

It's just some clarification for an idea that was used earlier as "evidence" that Fire Immunity was OP, and I was pointing out that it's actually not true. The supposed fire stun strats are possible with any character, regardless of fire resistance level.

[Canis]

Just now, Mr.Mulk said:

It's just some clarification for an idea that was used as "evidence" that Fire Immunity was OP, and I was pointing out that it's actually not true. The supposed fire stun strats are possible with any character, regardless of fire resistance level.

Id also like to clear things up since I feel like this is vaguely directed at me. (because im practically ranting about why fire immunity is a need for Willow (which it is))

Willow's version of this would be different as she would light a mob on fire and just hold f until it dies or the fire is extinguished.

[Datanon]

21 minutes ago, TheKingDedede said:

Can we at least wait until the update actually comes out before we get threads critiquing the changes?

i dont think there is a reason for you to publish the information about the rework before it actually comes but to see how the community reacts to it

[Mr.Mulk]

2 minutes ago, Canis said:

Id also like to clear things up since I feel like this is vaguely directed at me. (because im practically ranting about why fire immunity is a need for Willow (which it is))

Willow's version of this would be different as she would light a mob on fire and just hold f until it dies or the fire is extinguished.

That has the massive drawback of burning the loot (also a lot of enemies will still hit when on fire), as well as any player can do this with Scalemail then.
It's just not this massive OP thing people make it out to be.

[Canis]

Just now, Mr.Mulk said:

That has the massive drawback of burning the loot, as well as any player can do this with Scalemail then.
It's just not this massive OP thing people make it out to be.

You're completely right.

Maybe another viable buff to Willow would be to make mobs *she* sets on fire unable to drop ash. Mobs set on fire by any other character is fair game.

[minespatch]

17 minutes ago, Hatano Eichero said:

[Canis]

2 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Hol' up.

...What are those trees?

[h2mk]

3 minutes ago, minespatch said:

I saw that one a long time ago.

[minespatch]

2 minutes ago, Hatano Eichero said:

I saw that one a long time ago.

Same energy though. I had to bring the meme back. I'm getting tired of the bickering and waiting for the forums to quiet down again.

[exobunny]

I would like to say that I love Willow. I have played her since I unlocked her, and will continue to do so no matter what her characters perks/negatives are. I was, however, hoping to see bigger pros and cons to her build. Like the OP Wortox did give me such high hopes. But I will be content either way! My only question, are there new skins for willow? TAKE MY MONEY! 

[Maxposting]

6 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Same energy though. I had to bring the meme back. I'm getting tired of the bickering and waiting for the forums to quiet down again.

I am feeling like : 

 

 

When the forums explode and they are like ''klei willew will suxs pls change'' when literally noone has seen her rework in-game

[h2mk]

3 minutes ago, exotickitten said:

Willow. I have played her since I unlocked her, and will continue to do so no matter what her characters perks/negatives are. I was, however, hoping to see bigger pros and cons to her build. Like the OP Wortox did give me such high hopes. But I will be content either way! My only question, are there new skins for willow? TAKE MY MONEY! 

Sxifmc fjroekcmcmemdkskekeke

My feelings exactly

Willow da best

[GenomeSquirrel]

4 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

I am feeling like : 

 

 

When the forums explode and they are like ''klei willew will suxs pls change'' when literally noone has seen her rework in-game

it's not as if you need 1,000 hours to appreciate fuel lasting longer ...

[Rhovious Aran]

Well, I just woke up. Checked the subreddit and saw something like "people hate the Willow" rework. So I came here and saw everything is on fire.

Well I have an estimate 1600 hours of ingame time, so maybe my opinion matters to some degree. 

Well, I wouldn't call this rework "terrible". But it's uninteresting at best. To me personally characters are fun when they can do something others can't i.e. having their own crafting tab. I play Wickerbottom most of the time, because her books are just too good to skip. For this reason I am very excited about Wagstaff, his stuff is really amazing. For this reason I like what they did for Winona, though I am personally not too much of a fan of her particular structures. 

Neither summer nor winter are any trouble for me to deal with. Most of the time I don't even use campfires at all anymore. I use portable lanterns most of the time and I heat myself at the scaled furnace and also cook there. No reason to pick Willow for me whatsoever.

However, I also don't care about a potential permanent fire immunity. I dispose of giants in vastly stretching teeth traps or let spiders or treants or tentacles do the trick or I just do the god damn ol' hit and run strategy, soloing Klaus is no problem for me.

The release of Wortox and Winonas powerful structures made me think that the new DST content could be much tougher and I thought maybe all characters would come out much stronger after the rework (some need more of a buff than others). 
But we can clearly witness a degree of powercreep here.

I like Willow visually, I like her voice. But I could never play her. I am not even someone who likes to take an easy route, I like when the game is tough. But I cannot get myself to deliberately pick "bad" characters, as for the remainder of the how many ever 100s of ingame days I will play, I will always have this nagging voice in my head telling me "oh with Wicker you could build a tentacle farm.... etc."

I was hoping Willow would get some kind of thing she could craft for her team as well.

I actually dont know, but is Bernie craftable? Can you share the Bernie (what is it even? a hat or a body armour then?) to other players?

I was hoping she might get some nice lategame stationary lantern. Maybe she could craft a lantern that only lights if she is near them and has a light radius depending on her sanity or something. I don't know I am pulling straws here, I haven't given it much thought. But again, for me characters are pickworthy if they have their own fun gadgets to craft or if their other general perks are that strong that they are worth picking (In Hamlet I prefer playing WX 78 over Wicker because he can reliable charge himself with thunderbirds, I never touch Wolfgang though, in my opinion his damage is just way too strong, I am so tired of seeing speedrun and world record boss kills with Wolfgang)

Just as a sidenote, I hope Wilson will also be reworked into something that is more than just "a standard character that has no perks or drawbacks", he is a damn scientist... give him some gadgets... even if they are wonky and unreliable.

I also think that it's not a bad thing if characters would overlap a bit with their perks. I usually hate when devs make everything the same for all classes in other games. But I think it could really work out in DSTs favour if most characters get something to craft, it doesn't need to be too unique. Just let it be an alternative way of achieving a usual goal. Like there is tons of ways to play DST, so many different approaches, it's already a thing in the game. Give the characters more stuff to do. 

So tldr. I suggest giving willow some craftable stuff that is actually "fun"... 

It's all about the fun in the end. When you create or change stuff, always ask yourself "is it fun"? 

[HSank]

Maybe a good drawback for Willow would be to make her more susceptible to overheating/freezing instead of just making freezing do more damage and overheating less. What this would mean is her temperature would fall/rise 1.25x/1.5x/1.75x/2x (the number is debatable) as fast compared to other characters. So insulation items would be less effective on her and overall. But this would also mean if you are freezing/overheating, her temperature would also rise/fall quicker back when standing near heat/cold objects. 

Just a potential thought for a drawback. 

[Mobbstar]

MrMulk convinced me on the Island Adventures Discord chat that Inventory Burning would be a neat ability to add back. Also, it makes Abigail even less unique and useful, so I am completely on-board with it! Just give it a visual FX (and if Willow gets total fire immunity, also give it a damage cap).

Maybe let Willow pick up burning items? That'd either make her a much better "firefighter", or make Inventory Burning easier to implement.

Also, just pitching an idea here, what if Willow has fire immunity, but takes damage from overheating instead?

EDIT: Before I forget: Remember to give Klei some respect, everyone. They literally said they'll change the perks some more before releasing the update. <3

EDIT2: Why no, I didn't read most of the thread, just the original post and some highlighted ones.

[exobunny]

38 minutes ago, Rhobious_Aran said:

I actually dont know, but is Bernie craftable? Can you share the Bernie (what is it even? a hat or a body armour then?) to other players?

I tend to join games craft several of them and wall them off at base as a nightmare creature tank for the group I'm playing with. They remain there and are repairable (with a sewing kit) by other characters. So yeah it can be shared in a way.  Also a great way to farm fuel for the group. 

[Mr.Mulk]

21 minutes ago, Mobbstar said:

MrMulk convinced me on the Island Adventures Discord chat that Inventory Burning would be a neat ability to add back. Also, it makes Abigail even less unique and useful, so I am completely on-board with it! Just give it a visual FX (and if Willow gets total fire immunity, also give it a damage cap).

Maybe let Willow pick up burning items? That'd either make her a much better "firefighter", or make Inventory Burning easier to implement.

Honestly Inventory Burning I view as a sort of a "Happy Accident" (in the words of Bob Ross).

I think with proper adjustments it'd be perfect for DST and give Willow a unique role as a combat AoE focused character, something which helps all skill levels of players at all points throughout the playthrough.

In it's current state it's rough around the edges, so it'd need some things:

• Proper artistic direction with the animations and effects to represent its current power level
• A dps cap of some sort would be warranted because it is currently very damaging, perhaps a little too damaging
• It would probably need to be disabled in pvp realistically, however I am by no means an expert on pvp nor do I claim to be so

Honestly though with these things it's potentially a really great perk, and would bring some new unique strategies to the table in regards to fighting bosses and preparation for said bosses.