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Willow Refresh Info and Roadmap Schedule Update

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Stonetribe

Stonetribe

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Zarklord said:

.........
okay, just no.
you come off as a jerk, when you do the following:
not actually read the post your responding to, and this thread is riddled with post's from you where that's the case.
not responding to the actual points of the post in question, instead your only focus is calling out "all the flaws" in an argument.
literally taking every word out of context, and attacking people on it.

seriously, please stop this nonsense while you still have a shrivel of credibility, you have lost most of it in this thread as it is.

To be fair, Freya isn't the only person who's become overly argumentative as of late, and I think that I can safely say that our own debate on whether the ability to prevent loot from turning into ash would be too unfitting for Willow or not has remained civil.

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4 Da LOLs

4 Da LOLs

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Stonetribe said:

To be fair, Freya isn't the only person who's become overly argumentative as of late

they weren't talking about the fact we are all arguing

they were talking about the politeness in doing so

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fimmatek

fimmatek

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

See, I'm probably the only person who'll ever say this, but I don't mind the danger of burning things, as long as there's a way to control it.

The thing that I hope to the most, is to see her old "Insanity fires" come back. Wanna know why? THis game, is too easy.

I don't remember the last time I've burned smth down in DS with the downside.

I would love to see them be adventurous with fires, I play with people who know how to play the game, and I know how to play it.

Not saying we need Willow to instantly burn the world down, but a small dangerous downside, would be a thrilling experience, and would make you feel like you're playing "The Firestarter".

The problem with this entire game in general, is the "Noob accommodation".

How can we make the game as easy as possible so people would spend more money on our skins.

Personally I like the idea of having disatvantages and dangers with each character. The problem is mainly public servers where a lot of beginners play too and countering such dangers wouldn't be easy or even possible for many players. So I'm afraid it would result in more hate agains Willow (and anyone else with such dangers) if there weren't an easy and trivial way to counter these. And while I agree that the game shouldn't be balanced for noobs, such dangers could do more harm than use to the playerbase. 

Maybe if these disadvantages would come out or getting stronger after a year, this way experienced players would have enough risks while noobs wouldn't be kicked for chosing a "wrong" character.

Also, I guess megabase builders wouldn't like such dangers. I'm not one, so I don't know for sure tho.

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Stonetribe

Stonetribe

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, 4 Da LOLs said:

they weren't talking about the fact we are all arguing

they were talking about the politeness in doing so

That's what I was trying to imply when I said being argumentative vs debating, sorry if that wasn't clear.

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Mr.Mulk

Mr.Mulk

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

Personally I like the idea of having disatvantages and dangers with each character. The problem is mainly public servers where a lot of beginners play too and countering such dangers wouldn't be easy or even possible for many players. So I'm afraid it would result in more hate agains Willow (and anyone else with such dangers) if there weren't an easy and trivial way to counter these. And while I agree that the game shouldn't be balanced for noobs, such dangers could do more harm than use to the playerbase. 

Maybe if these disadvantages would come out or getting stronger after a year, this way experienced players would have enough risks while noobs wouldn't be kicked for chosing a "wrong" character.

Also, I guess megabase builders wouldn't like such dangers. I'm not one, so I don't know for sure tho.

The key is striking that fine balance between a downside that's both real and yet not potentially server-ruining. Personally, some examples of this come to mind: Webber's monster tag and Wigfrid's Meat only diet. Both are excellent examples of real downsides that affect all skill levels and all players yet do not really detract from the game or potentially ruin a server because beginners cannot handle them.

Now how that same concept could be applied to Willow? I'll take some time to consider different ideas I've heard as well as my own musings and get back to you on that one.

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Mr.Mulk

Mr.Mulk

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Hatano Eichero said:

with the new stream ill be the first one to complain.

 

Willow has a very insignificant downside.

but I guess its cool. I probably shouldnt complain anyways.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with critiquing the game design, I support this stance actually. Really all I could ask is providing a potential solution to help Klei when they go through the comments on this.

Personally I'm fairly ok with how it turned out, I still would have liked to see modified inventory burning be a thing, but Fire Immunity is a good first step I think.

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Zeklo

Zeklo

Posted
Posted

Loved the stream teaser. Glad to see true Fire Immunity made in it.

  • I still think her downside is still negligible, not the worst but a challenge to characters is nice.
  • I'm still concerned about what this means for Wendy/Abigail, but we'll have to wait for their rework I suppose.
  • Bit concerned with Bernie's assets—the line-work doesn't match the style super well, so they stick out a bit.
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h2mk

h2mk

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Loved the stream teaser. Glad to see true Fire Immunity made in it.

  • I still think her downside is still negligible, not the worst but a challenge to characters is nice.
  • I'm still concerned about what this means for Wendy/Abigail, but we'll have to wait for their rework I suppose.
  • Bit concerned with Bernie's assets—the line-work doesn't match the style super well, so they stick out a bit.

^

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CarlZalph

CarlZalph

Posted
Posted

I transcribed @V2C 's explanation on why Willow's fire immunity was removed in the first place. 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/419503095
Quote

59m03s
"The reason- the reason why we even changed that, um, like years ago when we first launched the game in beta, um, was because back them, um, the game still had the potential to be quite played a lot in PvP, um, which is no longer the case.
So in PvP, if people don't remember like, one of the metas was fire staves 'cause they basically go through, um, armour- it just ignores your armour and does a lot of damage, um, over time.
Um, so if one character takes no damage from the meta then she's basically God.
So it wasn't fair, which is why we changed that.
But, um, the game has evolved quite a bit- it's not like there's not as much PvP played and as well as she's already been reworked like a few times and having like a few seconds of fire immunity and that change that we were testing last week basically made her immune to the duration of the burn anyways so she would have been fully immune to a fire staff anyways so it made no difference.
And in terms of PvE gameplay having fire immunit- immunity doesn't- isn't- that big of a, um, difference.
Like it's- it's a good bonus, um, but yeah later you'll see why, um, it's good for her to have that paired with her other abilities.
Yeah, so, that's, um, the main thing for that.
So, but let's talk more about fire immunit- immunity, um.
I think, um, in the old Willow ..."
[Talks about old UI showing burn status damage despite not taking damage, and the new fire overlay being faded on Willow.]

He says 'um' quite a lot.

 

Ultimately it boils to: `PvP`

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MeloD

MeloD

Posted
Posted

Did they change anything with her lighter in the new stream tho? How about the lighter being only refuelable with flower petals? Distilled petal oil and all. Also a higher sanity aura from the floral aroma.

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Terra_Zina

Terra_Zina

Posted
Posted

I can die happy now. I am so ****ing hyped for the animation. Nearly pissed myself at the login screen.

After probably 40 something hours I can finally sleep. Fire immunity is back, and Bearnie looks better and sicker than I thought. You delivered again, Klei, you absolute units.

Anyway ::yawn_emote::

Nighty-night!

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Masked_Misery

Masked_Misery

Posted
Posted

The idea that they removed her fire immunity because they thought it wasn't fair in pvp; when Wolfgang deals double damage and Wigfrid starts with full equipment and a quarter higher modifiers. I am lost for words on this "logic".

 

The problem is that Fire Immunity by itself isn't actually a big deal, since there's no inventory burning now. The amount of practical applications for it are extremely limited since the game punishes using fire for combat via turning drops to ashes, fire spreading to everything, and Willow only gains sanity from fire. So you can use it to gain some sanity, or use it to fight and risk burning down the map and or losing the drops from the fight.

My hope was that they would bring Fire Immunity back and then add in new pro-fire mechanics for Willow that encourage and reward her for using fire. But so far they haven't, so Willow is essentially immune to a not-very-dangerous hazard that is purposely designed to not be useful either.

It certainly makes her funner then before, but I doubt her Fire Immunity will be more useful then combat Bernie. It seems like the immunity is just going to be another one of her completely forgettable perks.

This "refresh" just feels like a stressful mess at this point, unless Willow is just the developer's specific design weakness.

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Canis

Canis

Posted
Posted

With the full fire immunity announced, I am satisfied. The only real thing I want now is to change mobs dropping ash when set on fire (specifically by WIllow.) I feel like that would open up much more doors in the meta and decent strats in general.

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FreyaMaluk

FreyaMaluk

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Canis said:

With the full fire immunity announced, I am now extremely satisfied. The only real thing I want now is to change mobs dropping ash when set on fire (specifically by WIllow.) I feel like that would open up much more doors in the meta and decent strats in general.

Probably not gonna happen. 

Pretty much this 

1 hour ago, Masked_Misery said:

It certainly makes her funner then before, but I doubt her Fire Immunity will be more useful then combat Bernie. It seems like the immunity is just going to be another one of her completely forgettable perks.

 

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