Willow Refresh Info and Roadmap Schedule Update

[Nikki Darks]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

cuz it posses the question how fire immunity tactics would affect combat with other players if she gets fire immunity.. ofc is relevant... 

It's not relevant, none of us talked about that in the first place in our discussion. That's someone else's IDEA.
 

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, Nikki Darks said:

It's not relevant, none of us talked about that in the first place in our discussion. That's someone else's IDEA.
 

xD

that's my own comment from page 18

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/105367-willow-refresh-info-and-roadmap-schedule-update/?do=findComment&comment=1188344

 

[Nikki Darks]

1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

xD

that's my own comment from page 18

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/105367-willow-refresh-info-and-roadmap-schedule-update/?do=findComment&comment=1188344

 

Still, not a part of "Our Discussion".

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, Nikki Darks said:

Still, not a part of "Our Discussion".

Nikki.. I'm trying to make you think about what combat might look like with fire immunity... it's my own question to you... not other's idea as you claimed... my OWN idea and concern...

Willow might end up playing alone a lot if all of her tactics are around burning things around her ONLY... just something I want you to think about...

you yourself admitted she needs more than fire immunity and that's our discussion atm 

[Nikki Darks]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

Nikki.. I'm trying to make you think about what combat might look like with fire immunity... it's my own question to you... not other's idea as you claimed... my OWN idea and concern...

Willow might end up playing alone a lot if all of her tactics are around burning things around her ONLY... just something I want you to think about...

you yourself admitted she needs more than fire immunity and that's our discussion atm 

See, Willow having self boosting perks, and selfish perks, that don't DIRECTLY affect allies, isn't bad, it's actually more healthier for her character than trying to patch her up with discount perks to assist allies. Look at Wolfgang, he is the most selfish character in DST, yet he can carry his teammates into late game BECAUSE of his selfish perks. Willow playing ALONE isn't bad, as long as she can manage to indirectly help her team.

[Pop Guy]

4 hours ago, Terra_Zina said:

Really, all I want is for someone to say "pick Willow" when I ask a server what character they need. That is all I want. That is all I want to hear.

"pick willow"

So simple, yet so hard. I get that refreshing a character literally based around a destructive force is a difficult, even a risky task. But really, all I want is for someone to actually WANT Willow. Perhaps even NEED Willow.

Read Klei well.
Never a problem has been highlighted so well.
Here the sum of all that is wrong with the update you proposed.
Here what you need to make a difference.
"Pick Willow"
The only thing you have to bet on.
"Need Willow"
The only thing we need.
After years of infamy and shame... give this character the ancient splendor she deserves.
Make she shine with the inextinguishable fire of the stars.
You can.

[FreyaMaluk]

11 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

See, Willow having self boosting perks, and selfish perks, that don't DIRECTLY affect allies, isn't bad, it's actually more healthier for her character than trying to patch her up with discount perks to assist allies. Look at Wolfgang, he is the most selfish character in DST, yet he can carry his teammates into late game BECAUSE of his selfish perks. Willow playing ALONE isn't bad, as long as she can manage to indirectly help her team.

Wolfgang has individual perks that don't burn teammates, if Willow's abilities are full on focus on burning stuff around her.. she will.. 

that comparison doesn't even apply in the first place..

I'm not saying Willow has to be trash cuz she is a firestarter.. just to find a good place when she can have fun with fire without burning the other people playing with her, u see?

again.. I understand that fire is so important to her character.. cuz it is.. it absolutely IS.. but there has to be some sort of accommodation for other players playing alongside with her... if willow decides to fight setting everything on fire around her all the time then she won't be part of the team that much... that's all I would like you to reflect on... and I hope Klei can work something around that... something more creative than nerfing Willow

[Nikki Darks]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

Wolfgang has individual perks that don't burn teammates, if Willow's abilities are full on focus on burning stuff around her.. she will.. 

that comparison doesn't even apply in the first place..

I'm not saying Willow has to be trash cuz she is a firestarter.. just to find a good place when she can have fun with fire without burning the other people playing with her, u see?

again.. I understand that fire is so important to her character.. cuz it is.. it absolutely IS.. but there has to be some sort of accommodation for other players playing alongside with her... if willow decides to fight setting everything on fire around her all the time then she won't be part of the team that much... that's all I would like you to reflect on...

See, I'm probably the only person who'll ever say this, but I don't mind the danger of burning things, as long as there's a way to control it.

The thing that I hope to the most, is to see her old "Insanity fires" come back. Wanna know why? THis game, is too easy.

I don't remember the last time I've burned smth down in DS with the downside.

I would love to see them be adventurous with fires, I play with people who know how to play the game, and I know how to play it.

Not saying we need Willow to instantly burn the world down, but a small dangerous downside, would be a thrilling experience, and would make you feel like you're playing "The Firestarter".

The problem with this entire game in general, is the "Noob accommodation".

How can we make the game as easy as possible so people would spend more money on our skins.

I'd like this to be my final post in this conversation because discussing this topic with anyone who isn't a Willow main with a high amount of hours played, is a pure waste of time. No offense.

[Pop Guy]

1 minute ago, Nikki Darks said:

I'd like this to be my final post in this conversation because discussing this topic with anyone who isn't a Willow main with a high amount of hours played, is a pure waste of time. No offense.

A little offensive it is... 

[FreyaMaluk]

26 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

I'd like this to be my final post in this conversation because discussing this topic with anyone who isn't a Willow main with a high amount of hours played, is a pure waste of time. No offense.

I've played this game for 2.475 hours... I think I know one thing or two xD.. and it is condescending and yes.. kinda offensive... 

[Nikki Darks]

Sorry y'all are offended by my online post.

[Pop Guy]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

I've played this game for 2.475 hours... I think I know one thing or two xD.. and it is condescending and yes.. offensive... 

Moreover.
But regardless, there's no need to show the hours of play to talk about DS. It is not a scientific topic, I find the request of some users that the interlocutor shows "credentials" absurd. 
 

[4 Da LOLs]

17 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Wolfgang has individual perks that don't burn teammates

say that on an empty stomach

[Captain_Rage]

Hopefully Klei will add a Nikki Darks and a FreyaMaluk character up next. That would be a great take on cooperative wilderness survival.:DD (friendly grudges is definitely one of the better parts of DST)

[Terra_Zina]

What the hell did I come back to?

[Nikki Darks]

2 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Hopefully Klei will add a Nikki Darks and a FreyaMaluk character up next. That would be a great take on cooperative wilderness survival.:DD (friendly grudges is definitely one of the better parts of DST)

That actually made me laugh xD

when you said friendly.

1 minute ago, Terra_Zina said:

What the hell did I come back to?

To the bone zone

[Captain_Rage]

Sorry, I didn't mean to add fuel to the fire. Speaking of.... back to Willow.

I think that they proposed changes are actually okay but yes, they somehow lack a flair. I'm sure Klei will come up with something nice. Willow being more self-sufficient is more than alright in my book, although some explicitly team-oriented ability would also be nice. (I can see some trouble ahead: people dumping combustible resources on Willow and nagging that she burns them in order to benefit from the fire bonus).

[Nikki Darks]

I have the best ever idea for a willow perk.

 

LET HER BURN THINGS WHICH ARE NOT FLAMMABLE.

STINGERS ARE LIKE A DOOMSDAY WAITING TO HAPPEN IF YOU DON'T PICK THEM ALL UP.

[FreyaMaluk]

18 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

That actually made me laugh xD

when you said friendly.

To the bone zone

lol... funny u think our discussion wasn't friendly.. xD

arguments and disagreements doesn't mean personal attacks... 

[Nikki Darks]

1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

lol... funny u think our discussion wasn't friendly.. xD

arguments and disagreements doesn't mean personal attacks... 

Of course they don't, never said they don't. qx q

[Mr.Mulk]

7 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

It's funny when people contradict themselves...

here is what you said about inventory burning before... never mentioned the potential that could have on others players cuz you clearly don't care and/or play solo

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/105367-willow-refresh-info-and-roadmap-schedule-update/?do=findComment&comment=1184919

You know it's funny when someone completely ignores what I've blatantly stated in plain text.

Next time actually bother to read what I say, alright? I clearly stated my previous post. So no, no contradictions here. Nice attempt though.

7 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

here is what you said about inventory burning before... never mentioned the potential that could have on others players cuz you clearly don't care and/or play solo

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/105367-willow-refresh-info-and-roadmap-schedule-update/?do=findComment&comment=1184919

No mention of balancing... just "gimme power pls"

later u changed cuz probably people pointed out to you the same thing I said in the first place... 

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Honestly your argument is very poorly constructed, no offense.

I'll make a list then:

1. Taking one thing I've said out of greater context of my other posts is a hilariously bad idea. What I mean in that linked post is that the perks listed there give Willow absolutely nothing, when literally almost everyone agrees she needed to be a more powerful character. She's got very little going on for her in her current state and a bunch of weaksauce perks aren't going to help.

• You're attempting to make me out to be some sort of power hungry Bond villain, which is just silly. How about instead of insulting me you make a good argument.

2. I'm seriously trying to wrap my head around the "later you changed quote"

• Are you genuinely insulting me for taking the time to consider alternative opinions and adjust my stances as a result? Cause if so, you're the one being judgmental and rude.

7 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

FIRE is a risk to everyone involved... it's dangerous.. it's not supposed to be trivial and it needs to be balanced around other players cuz DST is a multiplayer game in essence even if you decide to play solo

WX or Wolfgang being strong solo doesn't have ANYTHING to do with fire... their abilities don't affect other players, while a lot of fire tactics do affect combat for everyone involved and it would make Willow fight alone all the time..

Willow could set up a ring of fire and fight alone in there but then other people would be forced to just watch or leave her fighting alone... other characters can't join her if all Willow's abilities are worked around fire... only maybe later if they farm enough scales which realistically speaking doesn't happen ... and if you farm more scales you probably want to use them for scale chests and not an armor just to able to fight alongside Willow

I personally would like something cool for Willow that's fire related, even fire immunity might be cool ... but a COOP BALANCE needs to take place cuz fire is not a joke... same goes for burning inventory... it's necessary that some COOP considerations apply if Klei decide to reintroduce these things back into the game

Alright let's get to the meat of this "argument"

You know you keep making this argument that characters need to be balanced foremost with multiplayer considerations in mind, and to put it lightly saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make your points any better, just louder. Throwing in a convoluted strawman argument about fire being destructive isn't going to change that fact either.

The simple fact, no matter how hard you try to deny it is that characters balanced to be powerful in solo are often some of the better characters in Co-op, and balancing around multiplayer ruins the experience for single player DST players. You attempt to make the response that fire is too destructive to be considered in a multiplayer application, to which I answer: fire is destructive yes, but literally anything can be appropriately balanced to not cause mechanical issues. I have not suggested in recent months I wouldn't want a perk such as inventory burning, for example to be adjusted mechanically as to be more multiplayer friendly, but this is coming from the lens of it being a powerful perk foremost in single player.
 

ADDENDUM: I had a realization too if you build characters around the idea of synergies with other characters you specifically limit character choice to what others have already chosen on a server. I think that's poor game design and wouldn't be fun. Characters can synergize, yes, but they need to stand foremost on their own right so people actually want to play them.

I'm also not trying to suggest multiplayer considerations don't entirely matter, just that they shouldn't be the primary concern.

This is from my previous post specifically discussing the idea.

[FreyaMaluk]

46 minutes ago, Mr.Mulk said:

You know it's funny when someone completely ignores what I've blatantly stated in plain text.

Next time actually bother to read what I say, alright? I clearly stated my previous post. So no, no contradictions here. Nice attempt though.

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Honestly your argument is very poorly constructed, no offense.

I'll make a list then:

1. Taking one thing I've said out of greater context of my other posts is a hilariously bad idea. What I mean in that linked post is that the perks listed there give Willow absolutely nothing, when literally almost everyone agrees she needed to be a more powerful character. She's got very little going on for her in her current state and a bunch of weaksauce perks aren't going to help.

• You're attempting to make me out to be some sort of power hungry Bond villain, which is just silly. How about instead of insulting me you make a good argument.

2. I'm seriously trying to wrap my head around the "later you changed quote"

• Are you genuinely insulting me for taking the time to consider alternative opinions and adjust my stances as a result? Cause if so, you're the one being judgmental and rude.

Alright let's get to the meat of this "argument"

You know you keep making this argument that characters need to be balanced foremost with multiplayer considerations in mind, and to put it lightly saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make your points any better, just louder. Throwing in a convoluted strawman argument about fire being destructive isn't going to change that fact either.

The simple fact, no matter how hard you try to deny it is that characters balanced to be powerful in solo are often some of the better characters in Co-op, and balancing around multiplayer ruins the experience for single player DST players. You attempt to make the response that fire is too destructive to be considered in a multiplayer application, to which I answer: fire is destructive yes, but literally anything can be appropriately balanced to not cause mechanical issues. I have not suggested in recent months I wouldn't want a perk such as inventory burning, for example to be adjusted mechanically as to be more multiplayer friendly, but this is coming from the lens of it being a powerful perk foremost in single player.
 

ADDENDUM: I had a realization too if you build characters around the idea of synergies with other characters you specifically limit character choice to what others have already chosen on a server. I think that's poor game design and wouldn't be fun. Characters can synergize, yes, but they need to stand foremost on their own right so people actually want to play them.

I'm also not trying to suggest multiplayer considerations don't entirely matter, just that they shouldn't be the primary concern.

This is from my previous post specifically discussing the idea.

I never insulted you...

[4 Da LOLs]

35 minutes ago, Mr.Mulk said:

I had a realization too if you build characters around the idea of synergies with other characters you specifically limit character choice to what others have already chosen on a server. I think that's poor game design and wouldn't be fun. Characters can synergize, yes, but they need to stand foremost on their own right so people actually want to play them.

that is literally Webbers problem in its entirety

in real world green fire can occur by burning of specific fuel

what if that fuel was used in the lighter?

it doesn't spread and drops non burnt loot(possibly)

so shes still the fire starter but not the fire greifer

[zarklord_klei]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I never insulted you... or was rude.. never

.........
okay, just no.
you come off as a jerk, when you do the following:
not actually read the post your responding to, and this thread is riddled with post's from you where that's the case.
not responding to the actual points of the post in question, instead your only focus is calling out "all the flaws" in an argument.
literally taking every word out of context, and attacking people on it.

seriously, please stop this nonsense while you still have a shrivel of credibility, you have lost most of it in this thread as it is.

[4 Da LOLs]

10 minutes ago, Zarklord said:

.........
okay, just no.
you come off as a jerk, when you do the following:
not actually read the post your responding to, and this thread is riddled with post's from you where that's the case.
not responding to the actual points of the post in question, instead your only focus is calling out "all the flaws" in an argument.
literally taking every word out of context, and attacking people on it.

seriously, please stop this nonsense while you still have a shrivel of credibility, you have lost most of it in this thread as it is.

as a side note FreyaMaluk can you stop posting "confused" emotes on every post that opposes you?

not you too!