Willow Refresh Info and Roadmap Schedule Update

[ZombieLeopard]

I like that the devs are updating the game at all. Just think, they could of left it to how it was and never added something new. There are plenty of games that were put out in a broken state and then just left there. If the devs of this game need some extra time then so be it. The game already is in a good state. I can play with friends without it crashing, the game has things that you wouldn't think be in a game, there are world setting options (which a lot of games like this lack) and the BIG one. The game has multiple people to play as, each different too! 

[767392_1452794823]

This could be neat if Bernie activated when others are insane, and if Willow's fuel buff applied to everything. This would give her unique synergies with characters like Winona and Woodie, as Bernie could act as Woodie's body guard (in Beaver mode), and Winona's generators would be fueled more effectively.

[Nikki Darks]

Another mini-rant to try and clarify some things to people who clearly aren't Willow mains and who do NOT appreciate the character due to not playing her enough.

#1 On the topic of fire immunity, it's not JUST "exploiting a game mechanic" with the fire stunlock, it's about the character us Willow mains loved to play, it's an iconic part that we enjoyed about Willow no matter how useful or useless it was. it was. It fulfilled a fantasy of a character who revolves around taking advantage of fire in a survival environment.

N E X T 

#2 YOU NEVER BALANCE A CHARACTER AROUND GRIEFING. Anyone can grief, anyone can make a torch, I managed to get the "On Tentacles" book in 2-3 days on a pub server the other day as Wicker, it's just that easy. Why should Willow be downgraded because of some a-holes who grief or some crybabies who can't grow a sack and use the kick/ban option or put a password, or god forbid make a group for their server?

N E X T

#3 What I said about not being a Willow main. Everyone has a character that they enjoy, in any game, so much to the point of finding clever ways to enjoy the most insignificant perks of that character. I have a friend who loves Woodie's longer friendship with creatures perk, it's a meh-ish perk yet he still enjoys it. It's what fulfills a fun fantasy of a character in a video game for some of us, utilizing small, seemingly useless things about them in fun and creative ways. 

Now please, stop diminishing other people's love for the character and try to understand, that just because it might seem insignificant to you, to some of us who try their hardest to enjoy the character that Klei ruined, it really isn't. <3 

R A N T  O V E R 

[Captain_Rage]

27 minutes ago, ZombieLeopard said:

There are plenty of games that were put out in a broken state and then just left there.

That's putting it very mildly.

[Spirit Glow]

2 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

If Willow was immune the griefing public server would be horrid.. More than it is rn.

Willow pretty killing everyone by setting things on fire... Next to them No penalties whatsoever... 

I don't play on public servers, but how does having fire immunity correlate to willow griefing? Can't you just spawn in as any character, make a torch, and burn bases down? Genuine question. There's probably something i'm not thinking of.

[FreyaMaluk]

4 minutes ago, Spirit Glow said:

I don't play on public servers, but how does having fire immunity correlate to willow griefing? Can't you just spawn in as any character, make a torch, and burn bases down? Genuine question. There's probably something i'm not thinking of.

U can potentially kill other players by causing fires... 

I mean.. The other day I joined a game and then a Willow did exactly that.. Killed 2 peeps that caught up by the the fire and there was noone to rollback cuz I just joined for a couple days... need to be in a world for a while before even rollback or kick... 

I just see the possible ramifications... 

I like fire.. But in together is a bit hard.. 

[axxel]

If see that in that way a Willow player cannot be griefed with fire. Maybe I should start to play on competive servers with the option to team with someone and attack griefers.

[researchlab_2]

Okay, I believe we could stop talking about how making Willow more powerful than the refresh suggest is going to wake up griefers. No, it will not. There are a lot more ways to grief than to grab Willow. You can:

a)find a mosquito sack, make a ballon and extinguish a fire of some unaware player at night.

b)make a torch and basically do the same as you'd do with a lighter

c)go wicker, spend about 20 minutes getting stuff ready for On Tentacles and infest a base

d)go Webber and place spider eggs in a base

e)go Woodie and gnaw the base 

d)Make a hammer and destroy everything in the base

There are many ways to destroy someone's fun, and I believe making Willow better in fight against hordes is not going to be the worst case

[FreyaMaluk]

14 minutes ago, researchlab_2 said:

Okay, I believe we could stop talking about how making Willow more powerful than the refresh suggest is going to wake up griefers. No, it will not. There are a lot more ways to grief than to grab Willow. You can:

a)find a mosquito sack, make a ballon and extinguish a fire of some unaware player at night.

b)make a torch and basically do the same as you'd do with a lighter

c)go wicker, spend about 20 minutes getting stuff ready for On Tentacles and infest a base

d)go Webber and place spider eggs in a base

e)go Woodie and gnaw the base 

d)Make a hammer and destroy everything in the base

There are many ways to destroy someone's fun, and I believe making Willow better in fight against hordes is not going to be the worst case

I don't think making Willow fire immune is gonna maker powerful per se.. She is gonna Stil very niche... And tbh I don't think this alone is gonna make her a good character.. She needs more core mechanics.. 

This is my opinion, I would rather have klei thinking on many other ways she can be useful than allow a feature that's gimmicky... 

I like fire.. It's pretty cool.. I just think it's very niche... Specially when klei doesn't have other griefing controls in place.. U need to spend at least 20 days in public servers to vote kick or rollback 

But let's see what the devs decide in the next couple of days.. I'm curious about the other features that are Stil to come 

[DavePlaysDST]

13 minutes ago, researchlab_2 said:

Okay, I believe we could stop talking about how making Willow more powerful than the refresh suggest is going to wake up griefers. No, it will not. There are a lot more ways to grief than to grab Willow. You can:

a)find a mosquito sack, make a ballon and extinguish a fire of some unaware player at night.

b)make a torch and basically do the same as you'd do with a lighter

c)go wicker, spend about 20 minutes getting stuff ready for On Tentacles and infest a base

d)go Webber and place spider eggs in a base

e)go Woodie and gnaw the base 

d)Make a hammer and destroy everything in the base

There are many ways to destroy someone's fun, and I believe making Willow better in fight against hordes is not going to be the worst case

Or you could be wicker and make the end is nigh and kill them with that

[POWD3d4]

When new twitch drop?

[FreyaMaluk]

20 hours ago, Dynamix_Roxx said:

If you get a reply you’re amazing. It’s not a date I’m looking for though. They don’t have them set yet. I want to know if we’re going to be getting the content AT ALL. I waited for the Forge... I’m still waiting for the Forge.

The game is currently available on all 3 consoles, PC, Mac and mobile. I’m not sure of any numbers, but I have to believe there are a decent number of people playing on console. “Will we all see this releases at the same time?” This is what i want to know. I’d rather not watch all you new content on twitch again, I’d like to play it as well. 

I tried my best with this response for you guys on consoles and here it is

... you ARE gonna get it.. just don't have any concrete dates so far 

I hope this can give you a little bit more optimism and hope for the next update and for the community... I'm gonna keep asking a bit more specifically but this is what we got for now

[WoodieMain45684]

I've been thinking about this rework and Willow's ability to equip Bernie to stay warm and restore sanity. It would be pretty unique if willow equipped Bernie in the hand slot as apposed to the other two. It wouldn't necessarily be great if she could do that, but it would be very unique, as it would be the first hand item to restore sanity or provide warmth (Though I have a feeling that it's going to be a chest slot item).

I just wish sanity buffs or sanity nerfs were a better buff / nerf. Basically, for sanity buffs and debuffs to mean anything. Insanity needs to be a bit harsher to deal with. I personally think it would be neat if each character did something unique when they are low sanity. Have some natural affects of insanity and some unnatural ones. A good example of a unique affect would be how Willow used to get cold whenever insane (back on topic).  

Any immunity to fire would be much better in regards to defense if there were more mobs that tried to set you on fire or if the mobs were not so easily denied of the extra damage. For example: Dragonfly enrages?-> Use the worlds guaranteed pan flute. Lavae a problem? -> Build a wall. Klaus casting fire on you?->Just move away from the aura or freeze the fire deer. See what I mean? This basically makes the only combat based buff to having any fire immunity being you can hit burning mobs without suffering from being on fire. With knowledge of enemy hp. You wouldn't even need a buff that prevents the loot from burning. Although, it is kinda fun to watch bearger running around and panicking while being set on fire, but still #buffgiants. If this is really what fans are wanting by full fire immunity (additional damage), people are still going to criticize Willow and say that the alternatives are still better such as double damage (though I won't), though I do agree that it will provide an interesting way to play.

As for Bernie's new combat potential, I can't really say how I feel about it. It really depends on some of the numbers and behaviors of Bernie I suppose. It also fits willows character of being more nomad than not. Since she will have a portable companion. Though I just had a pretty cool idea, though it still is not amazing, but it would be a nice detail... What if Bernie (regardless of sanity state) would try and extinguish smoldering objects depending on what willow is doing? For instance, willow has willow's lighter equipped - > Bernie wont extinguish nearby smoldering objects or fires. Willow has an axe in her hand and is chopping trees in the summer -> Bernie will extinguish any nearby objects that catch on fire. Though this is just an idea, I won't be heartbroken if it doesn't happen.

Also, no worries about the delay Klei. Most real diehard fans care more about the quality of the content than the frequency it comes out at or how well it hits its deadlines. Anyone who thinks different probably isn't going to be playing very long after the update anyways. They'll just get bored as they plow through the content and forget to just take a second and admire the story and world that they get to take part in.

 

[Marco BR]

38 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I tried my best with this response for you guys on consoles and here it is

there is is... you ARE gonna get it.. just don't have any concrete dates so far 

I hope this can give you a little bit more optimism and hope for the next update and for the community... I'm gonna keep asking a bit more specifically but this is what we got for now

Thank You so much @FreyaMaluk 

[Dynamix_Roxx]

41 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I tried my best with this response for you guys on consoles and here it is

... you ARE gonna get it.. just don't have any concrete dates so far 

I hope this can give you a little bit more optimism and hope for the next update and for the community... I'm gonna keep asking a bit more specifically but this is what we got for now

Ok, not sure where to start..

 

First, Thank you.

 

Second, I guess I’ll ask on Twitter from now on. Even after I PM’d 3 admins here I got no response. 

 

Third, IT IS THEIR FINAL SAY. They pick the release dates. When it gets certified on each console, then pick 1 date for everyone.

I appreciate the fact that they’re working on releasing it the same day and I hope that is at least partly due to community feedback.

You do a great job here for the community. TY for helping get attention to my cause. I want to continue playing this amazing game for a long time. I only want the best for the company and the community. 

[QuartzBeam]

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. /s

I know I'm late to the party, so anything I say will probably have been said by others already.

In short, DST Willow has an identity crisis of colossal proportions, both in regards to her aesthetic and her gameplay.

DS Willow, while not a particularly powerful character, had both in spades. Aesthetically, she was a super-archetypal disturbed pyrokinetic straight out of a Stephen King novel. Said aesthetic was reflected in gameplay: she was unharmed and even comforted by fire, and she would randomly start fires with her mind when panicking in a desperate search for comfort. Moreover, she had a clear role as the go-to "beginner friendly" character, providing an easy way to counter some of the hardest challenges a player of Vanilla DS would face (namely darkness, cold and insanity), while dropping off in usefuless once someone was competent enough to survive reliably into late game.

Unfortunately, the obvious issue of newbies randomly lighting the base on fire by accident and the grossly overstated "griefing power" of Willow's Lighter, has rendered DST Willow a broken shell of her former self. She has completely lost the pyrokinetic abilities of the characters she was so obviously based on and has instead become some random sad orphan girl who seems more in line with the "matchstick girl" than with Carrie and Firestarter. To compensate for the loss of such a huge part of her identity, her gameplay has been tweaked to hell and back, resulting in a character with a handful of unconnected and borderline inconsequential perks that don't seem focused on any particular purpose.

Which brings us to her long-awaited rework. A rework that doesn't seem overly concerned with fixing the aforementioned identity crisis - a crisis caused by an overblown fear of griefing (intentional or otherwise) -, but instead double downs on it. Rather than bringing back Willow's latent pyrokinesis (in a multiplayer-friendly form), it double downs on the orphan aspect of her character by giving the spotlight to her teddy bear. Rather than trimming the fat and focusing on fewer, but purposeful and impactful perks, it instead piles several more inconsequential, thematically weak perks on top of the ones she already has.

The only really great thing about this rework is the idea of character getting extra powers when insane. But even then, I can't help but feel that this concept would be best used to give Willow a controllable, "safe" form of pyrokinesis when insane, instead of buffing The Teddy Bear That Was Promised, Even Though No One Asked For It. One disturbed young lady with a ghostly pet is enough.

[Bleksmits]

Idk much about Willow but maybe Bernie can have few inventory slots, when equipped?

[Well-met]

23 minutes ago, Bleksmits said:

Idk much about Willow but maybe Bernie can have few inventory slots, when equipped?

Bernie Farcie?

[JoeW]

23 hours ago, Dynamix_Roxx said:

I think we’re done “crying” about missing the deadlines. I understand that it can be hard on developers. Maybe the team shouldn’t announce any dates at all then until the project is further along. 

The new issue is a beta. They dropped this on us after two delays while us console players have no idea when or if we are going to see any new content at all. Do you think console gets a release of the new content at the same time as PC? I’ve been asking in the forums without any response. Kind of like the Forge. How was that by the way? We’re still waiting. 

 

Alienating your fan base isn’t a good idea. 

I got your PM and I am trying to sort through to find what your actual question is so please forgive me if this is not it. It's saturday and I am just headed out the door to take care of weekend stuff. 

But, as we said before our goal is to get updates out for console at the same time as PC. If we cannot do that, it will be just afterwards. This is really hard to say consistently that it will always be the case because issues with cert and things can hold it back. For example, there is an issue right now where some players on PS4 can't play at all. We can't reproduce the issue and have had to spend a huge amount of time trying to track it down. 

Now, I am going to be ultra clear here just because I think it's worth people understanding the intricacies of situations like this. 

This means a non trivial amount of players cannot play the game, at all. But the work being done for content is still happening (different team) and should still hit console on time. BUT, because of how console works they are behind on some of the DLC content and console must be updated with DLC content in order to receive the new stuff so things aren't missing and those items are still weavable. But do we just skip past this big login issue to get it in? We have to get updates approved to get them out, so if we get the DLC content update out that means more time will be needed to get the login issue approved and out the door as well. 

The cert process on console changes EVERYTHING. 

How are the players going to take this? Are they going to think we care more about DLC than we care about the login issues? Does anybody who isn't having the login issue even care? Are PS4 players going to be upset if DLC or content is delayed because of the login issue?

The answer to all of those are simultaneously yes and no, and it always will be because at no point will everybody be in agreement. 

When it comes to console we have said that we have put resources into doing our best to release everything from this point out on console as soon as possible. This means most things should happen at the same time or within a few days from when it hits on PC. 

The only way for us to say it will specifically be on a specific day is if we were to decide that we are going to hold ALL content for every platform and tell you a date when all approvals happen. We're not going to do this - this would make our update schedule WAY too long for all platforms. 

I understand that console has been getting the raw end of the deal for quite a while now. This is in part a huge reason we have made the operational changes towards this content and why we have made the changes we have made to ensure that updates will come out at the same time or within a few days of PC. 

Console is not being ignored here, it's a huge focus for us and one of the biggest motivators of our current plan for content and our update schedule.

If console will not be out at the same time I will be sure to let people know as soon as we know. Sometimes we don't know until the night before. Sometimes we don't know until hours before. But I will let you know as soon as we do. 

[h2mk]

58 minutes ago, Bleksmits said:

Idk much about Willow but maybe Bernie can have few inventory slots, when equipped?

 

[Rellimarual]

2 hours ago, Dynamix_Roxx said:

Third, IT IS THEIR FINAL SAY. They pick the release dates. When it gets certified on each console, then pick 1 date for everyone.

So even when the new content is ready to go out in the less proprietary format of PC, you want its release to be delayed for however long it takes for the update to be processed through the red tape of every single minority-used proprietary console format? You want to force vast majority of players to wait for Sony or whichever megacorporation to get around to approving it, even when those players deliberately chose not to shackle their own gaming experience to Sony? 

Yeah, can’t see that going over well, but why not make a poll?

[Marco BR]

1 hour ago, JoeW said:

I got your PM and I am trying to sort through to find what your actual question is so please forgive me if this is not it. It's saturday and I am just headed out the door to take care of weekend stuff. 

But, as we said before our goal is to get updates out for console at the same time as PC. If we cannot do that, it will be just afterwards. This is really hard to say consistently that it will always be the case because issues with cert and things can hold it back. For example, there is an issue right now where some players on PS4 can't play at all. We can't reproduce the issue and have had to spend a huge amount of time trying to track it down. 

Now, I am going to be ultra clear here just because I think it's worth people understanding the intricacies of situations like this. 

This means a non trivial amount of players cannot play the game, at all. But the work being done for content is still happening (different team) and should still hit console on time. BUT, because of how console works they are behind on some of the DLC content and console must be updated with DLC content in order to receive the new stuff so things aren't missing and those items are still weavable. But do we just skip past this big login issue to get it in? We have to get updates approved to get them out, so if we get the DLC content update out that means more time will be needed to get the login issue approved and out the door as well. 

The cert process on console changes EVERYTHING. 

How are the players going to take this? Are they going to think we care more about DLC than we care about the login issues? Does anybody who isn't having the login issue even care? Are PS4 players going to be upset if DLC or content is delayed because of the login issue?

The answer to all of those are simultaneously yes and no, and it always will be because at no point will everybody be in agreement. 

When it comes to console we have said that we have put resources into doing our best to release everything from this point out on console as soon as possible. This means most things should happen at the same time or within a few days from when it hits on PC. 

The only way for us to say it will specifically be on a specific day is if we were to decide that we are going to hold ALL content for every platform and tell you a date when all approvals happen. We're not going to do this - this would make our update schedule WAY too long for all platforms. 

I understand that console has been getting the raw end of the deal for quite a while now. This is in part a huge reason we have made the operational changes towards this content and why we have made the changes we have made to ensure that updates will come out at the same time or within a few days of PC. 

Console is not being ignored here, it's a huge focus for us and one of the biggest motivators of our current plan for content and our update schedule.

If console will not be out at the same time I will be sure to let people know as soon as we know. Sometimes we don't know until the night before. Sometimes we don't know until hours before. But I will let you know as soon as we do. 

Thank you for talking with us, it makes all the difference.

[_Ellat_]

OKAY WILLOW REWORK IDEA 

-Willows lighter sets everything in blue flame that makes things burn 3 times faster

-Her blue flame deals 10dmg/s when mobs die because of willows flame they dont drop ashes but just their loot

Add this and she's good to go Imo @JoeW

Edit:Since people are sooo confused about this blue flame is a lot hotter then the red flame that would actually show that fire is willows advantage

[maradyne]

Reverse Willow skin where Willow is dressed up as Bernie and Bernie is dressed as Willow.
Yes the idea is stolen from Reverse Annie.
It's also a money printer.

[Dynamix_Roxx]

2 hours ago, JoeW said:

For example, there is an issue right now where some players on PS4 can't play at all. We can't reproduce the issue and have had to spend a huge amount of time trying to track it down. 

I just recently had the issue where dynamic content was disabled as well. This is a totally different issue. If players are unable to play at all, this should be your number one priority.

 

2 hours ago, JoeW said:

But do we just skip past this big login issue to get it in? We have to get updates approved to get them out, so if we get the DLC content update out that means more time will be needed to get the login issue approved and out the door as well.

Of course not. Could you fix the login issue, get the updates approved and get the consoles up to date with the base game. Then get the new content certified and then pick a release date? 

 

2 hours ago, JoeW said:

How are the players going to take this? Are they going to think we care more about DLC than we care about the login issues? Does anybody who isn't having the login issue even care? Are PS4 players going to be upset if DLC or content is delayed because of the login issue?

Maybe the answer is both yes and no. What do you think? If you released new content, but I have had login issues for two months, wouldn’t I be upset that I can’t play and the developers still haven’t fixed it and move on to play something else? 

Yes, I care about login issues, and still have no idea why my dynamic content has to be disabled.

PS4 players shouldn’t be the ones who have to be upset because content is delayed because of your login issues. Your entire fan base should be, but I see where you’re going here. I don’t think you plan to release the content at the same time, even though you’re trying.

2 hours ago, JoeW said:

The only way for us to say it will specifically be on a specific day is if we were to decide that we are going to hold ALL content for every platform and tell you a date when all approvals happen. We're not going to do this - this would make our update schedule WAY too long for all platforms.

Thanks! That’s great news! ☹️

Why is this so hard?

Way too long for all platforms? Like how long console players waited for the Forge?

2 hours ago, JoeW said:

Console is not being ignored here, it's a huge focus for us and one of the biggest motivators of our current plan for content and our update schedule.

If console will not be out at the same time I will be sure to let people know as soon as we know. Sometimes we don't know until the night before. Sometimes we don't know until hours before. But I will let you know as soon as we do. 

The night before or hours before shouldn’t make your update schedule “WAY to long for all platforms”

I was more worried as to if I was going to see the new content AT ALL after endlessly waiting for the Forge. 

 

Thank you for your reply. I’m really trying not to be harsh. I hope you have a great weekend!