Willow Refresh Info and Roadmap Schedule Update

[Canis]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

That would be a bit op.. You are eliminating the normal result of using fire... Then don't use fire in the first place to attack... 

If you take a look at this update it's clear the devs are moving away from DS Willow... I was myself very resistance to this.. But if u look at how much you could do with bernies compared to fire.. You'll see fire is much more situational. 

Im not against the Bernie idea, in fact I'm glad theres more use to him then just throw him down at base and forget about him. But the entire character is based around Fire, and it seems like such a waste to not make that her main focal point. I mean, her nickname is "The Firestarter".

Also, let me go into detail on how you can use fire in combat (I tested this in-game with godmode to act as pseudo-immunity)

-You find a mob

-You light the mob on fire (either with a torch or your lighter)

-It's panicking and not attacking you

-Use this time to attack it with a melee weapon (immunity needed otherwise you take damage and make this tactic unnecessary.)

-It can't attack you because it's on fire.

 

Using this tactic, you can allow mobs that usually require 1-2 hit kite pattern to have something along the lines of a 10-hit kiting pattern.

Basically, it allows you to stun enemies, which is a niche that no other character currently fills.

Of course, I don't think bosses flinch in the same way that normal enemies do. I'll do some further testing in-game.

 

Regarding the idea of setting things alight in your inventory, *that* is where I draw the line. Yes, that would be absurdly OP.

[AdventZen]

Welp, here's my opinion: I don't see the point of this rework, guys.
I mean, it's like 10 different little things, and the character still feels boring.
@Zeklo couldn't be more spot-on if he tried, Willow's new perks don't feel significant, like the other characters. For logics and reasoning behind my opinion, please refer to his reply, I couldn't have said any better.

With that said, here be suggestions:

ADVANTAGES
- Go for big daddy bernie, dealing damage proportional to the target's insanity aura (might require some balancing, could go for 100% insanityaura-to-damage conversion for average threats and Nighmare Creatures, but nerf it to 10% for Giants)
- Go for campfire-safety Willow, who no longer loses drops if her enemies die of... arsonistic causes (AKA Deerclops still drops Eyeball if burnt to death) 
- Go for the thing literally everybody wants, and give her Fire Immunity (which synergizes with the above suggestion)
- Go for precision F-strike, where enemies burn longer and don't spread to nearby flammables, as long as they're hit by her Lighter (requires the campfire-safety suggestion, to incetivize actual fire-tactics, while giving use to her glorified torch)

Bottom Line is: nobody really cares about Fires, because they're hard to kite, keep up, and end up burning the loot, so the idea is either making them fun to use as Willow, or ditching the mechanic entirely and focusing on Bernie. I don't know about the rest, but I'd prefer fun fire-related perks, even if they don't seem to fit the character as much as the bland temperature resistances.

DISADVANTAGES
- idk break her legs Fires made by Willow burn faster, and I'm referring to wildfires, campfires, endo-fires and torches. This will make temperature control considerably harder, forcing the pyromaniac to burn entire forests on Winter and Spring to keep the heat up. It also makes the player feel like the pyromaniac, where no fire lasts long enough, and the nights just drag on for soooo long...

- Wetness drains sanity a lot more. being a wet pyromaniac just feels cruel, have some incentive to keep her warm and dry.

FINAL THOUGHTS
Redesigning a character based around the most-used Griefing method can be hard, but don't trap yourselves around the cliché and mellow things you're trying to redesign, go crazy, worst case scenario, it's still not bland. Willow is Fire, not Temperature. I'd love to hear back from the devs on these suggestions, but it's ok, I'm just another match in a sea of... wait what

[FreyaMaluk]

13 minutes ago, Canis said:

Im not against the Bernie idea, in fact I'm glad theres more use to him then just throw him down at base and forget about him. But the entire character is based around Fire, and it seems like such a waste to not make that her main focal point. I mean, her nickname is "The Firestarter".

Also, let me go into detail on how you can use fire in combat (I tested this in-game with godmode to act as pseudo-immunity)

-You find a mob

-You light the mob on fire (either with a torch or your lighter)

-It's panicking and not attacking you

-Use this time to attack it with a melee weapon (immunity needed otherwise you take damage and make this tactic unnecessary.)

-It can't attack you because it's on fire.

 

Using this tactic, you can allow mobs that usually require 1-2 hit kite pattern to have something along the lines of a 10-hit kiting pattern.

Basically, it allows you to stun enemies, which is a niche that no other character currently fills.

Of course, I don't think bosses flinch in the same way that normal enemies do. I'll do some further testing in-game.

 

Regarding the idea of setting things alight in your inventory, *that* is where I draw the line. Yes, that would be absurdly OP.

U can do this with her regardless and for longer with 6 seconds immunity even better.. This is a well known concept 

But then you want to stun and kill and yet get full benefit from killing faster with fire with full loot ? Yes.. I think it's op but we can agree to disagree

[Canis]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

U can do this with her regardless and for longer with 6 seconds immunity even better.. This is a well known concept 

But then you want to stun and kill and yet get full benefit from killing faster with fire? Yes.. I think it's op but we can agree to disagree

So, being able to stun things is OP, however being able to make an infinite amount of catapults to shred bosses apart isn't?

[Another membe]

Why not offline wortox.

Let me rephrase this: will there be offline wortox?

[WoodieMain45684]

I'm here guys! I'm here for the Woodie rework.

 

 

[FreyaMaluk]

9 minutes ago, Another membe said:

Why not offline wortox.

Let me rephrase this: will there be offline wortox?

 

5 minutes ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

I'm here guys! I'm here for the Woodie rework.

 

 

[.OS]

Neat for Willow mains, I suppose.

I sure hope Wendy is the next refresh teased/released in July, my birthday is in July!

And I hope they do not remove Abi defending us, it's part of my play style. I do hope they give us better control over Abi though, stop attacking tentacles!

[. . .]

37 minutes ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

I'm here guys! I'm here for the Woodie rework.

The Woodie rework will improve Woodie by making him apologize to whatever he attacks. He will also be 20% more polite so pigs will gift him humble gifts such as manure and stingers as a token of appreciation for his immense politeness, he will also deal 12% more damage with axes and be able to dual wield them and approximately 2 and a half players will be able to mount him while in werebeaver form with the help of a saddle which in turn negates his sanity loss because he's helping his friends and it makes him very happy.

10 minutes ago, Pab10Suarez said:

I don't use other character appart of wilson so i'm just waiting for him
i'll wait patiently

Wilson's refresh will allow his beard to grow by 1 more stage which grants him 10% more insulation so I'm also very excited for that refresh as well and feel it was a long needed buff for Wilson !

41 minutes ago, Another membe said:

Why not offline wortox.

Wortox's refresh which comes in about 5 years will allow him to be used online, so hang in there pal!

 

This information was 100% scientifically proven to be a true scientific fact by NASA themselves so your welcome for the spoilers.

[4 Da LOLs]

2 hours ago, MrDeepDarkmind said:

your telling me that sounds OP when like we have a robot who gets a speed boost 100+ health on thunderstrike and a AoE of light who can also UPGRADE HIMSELF TO BECOME A TANK

then we have a fat man who get stronk man by eating foodies 

don't forget the feminist with minigun turrets

[Pab10Suarez]

Some sad to hear but i'm happier to know that you will take your time, i've more time to buy skins or maybe wortox to help with the development
I don't use other character appart of wilson so i'm just waiting for him
i'll wait patiently

[Casm]

About the only thing here that I think is interesting is the fact that Bernie will fight and taunt most hostile creatures when near insanity. This probably means everything but boss monsters and maybe a few special exceptions (like Krampus). Every other change is simply underwhelming (sorry Klei).

So, the question becomes exactly how useful Bernie will be. How effective is his taunting, how much of a beating can Bernie take, does Bernie regenerate health and how much damage will Bernie do? If done correctly, Willow could be an ideal character for those players that like to run near insanity 24/7. If done poorly, then Willow will be just as scarce post update as she currently is right now.

Overall, I'm not nearly as excited about the Willow update as I was for Winona. I guess we'll have to wait and see though, I could still be surprised.

[Maxposting]

1 hour ago, AdventZen said:

 Willow is Fire

Willow is love, willow is life.

[CactusCompanion]

a'ight, sounds neat

[GenomeSquirrel]

I imagine Bernie will be a tanky version of Abigail, but not have her AOE or regeneration, so better vs bosses, but attack the wrong spider and it's dead

[-Variant]

2 hours ago, Trenix said:

Would be cool if Willow could create a special fire structure called a bonfire. It could be bigger, larger radius, hotter, and take more wood than other fires.

This is actually a thing.

Spoiler

Sure, it's cut, but it's still a thing. 
I'd love to see Willow be able to craft this, though.

[4 Da LOLs]

12 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

Willow is love, willow is life.

W i  ll 0 w

[Szczuku]

Ok I'll throw my 5 cents of feedback here. Willow changes for me are meh. 

-I like Bearnie changes since they even fit with the lore of Constant

-Fire related perks sound boring 

-Her downside wouldn't effect her 24/7 unlike other characters.

Some of my ideas 

-Maybe give her full fire immunity. Idk but I guess that would make her stand out from the rest of characters. But I guess 6 seconds would also do the trick but only if 

-She cannot be set on fire. This one would fit her character since she probably knows how to handle fire. This+6 seconds fire immunity would actually make her quite usefull durring Klaus fight as she'd be able to tank red gem dear's attack. 

-She doesn't drain durrability from her lighter, other characters do.

Now something that maybe could help her benefit from using fire.

-Mobs around her drop normal loot instead of ash when they're killed by fire. I guess this could make using fire as a strategy. Setting bosses on fire, hunting Koalefants etc. Willow'd have an (invisible) aura of about 5 tiles that protects loot from turning into ash. Food would still cook though.

[Canis]

15 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

Willow is love, willow is life.

naughty not-kid stuff ahead, proceed at your own risk:

Spoiler

I was dared to look up DST r34 one time. Oddly enough, only like 10% of it is Willow.

 

[4 Da LOLs]

1 minute ago, Szczuku said:

Ok I'll throw my 5 cents of feedback here. Willow changes for me are meh. 

-I like Bearnie changes since they even fit with the lore of Constant

-Fire related perks sound boring 

-Her downside wouldn't effect her 24/7 unlike other characters.

Some of my ideas 

-Maybe give her full fire immunity. Idk but I guess that would make her stand out from the rest of characters. But I guess 6 seconds would also do the trick but only if 

-She cannot be set on fire. This one would fit her character since she probably knows how to handle fire. This+6 seconds fire immunity would actually make her quite usefull durring Klaus fight as she'd be able to tank red gem dear's attack. 

-She doesn't drain durrability from her lighter, other characters do.

Now something that maybe could help her benefit from using fire.

-Mobs around her drop normal loot instead of ash when they're killed by fire. I guess this could make using fire as a strategy. Setting bosses on fire, hunting Koalefants etc. Willow'd have an (invisible) aura of about 5 tiles that protects loot from turning into ash. Food would still cook though.

this

 

also on the topic of reworks ( i say this now so you can consider it Klei before you do something else)

Webber should gain farm based perks it would match the character (from what we know of them)

it would fill the role of a veggie farmer, make them have more synergies, not just make them the repetitive top hat spammers, and would make them not a downgrade Wortox

 

4 minutes ago, Canis said:

naughty not-kid stuff ahead, proceed at your own risk:

  Hide contents

I was dared to look up DST r34 one time. Oddly enough, only like 10% of it is Willow.

 

what does that have anything to do with what you quoted or the rework?

[pedregales]

Quote

Willow no longer gets cold from low sanity.

IMO this is unnecessary, but at the same time I don't mind it gone for the following changes.

Quote

Willow takes more damage and loses sanity from freezing.

Willow takes less damage from overheating.

Is kinda nice and makes sense with the character that loves warm. Although I am sure it is going to be barely noticeable even with the mod that shows health and temperature at all times (I think is Combined Status, but can't remember). Better than losing temperature while insane, but meh.

Quote

Willow gets fire immunity for the first several seconds and then reduced damage thereafter.

 I mean... this doesn't tell me much. I guess it is going to be longer than it currently is, but that is a bit pointless IMO. Just make her straight up immune to fire and call it a day, it never was a problem and never will be (I will be talking up my buttocks here but I am sure almost everyone that plays Willow in DST has at least one mod to make her immune to fire, even if everything else is untouched).

Quote

Willow takes no burn damage while extinguishing fires and does it faster than others.

Again, kinda makes sense, but still requires you to go directly to it to extinguish it, and is pointless during a mass fire, for those you better have that feather fan or flingo ready instead of relying on your fire extinguishing prowess. The concept is not bad, but is Woodie vs Bearger. Now, if she could give surrounding things resistance to fire (as in they take more time to smolder, catch on fire, and burn down; at least twice as long I think), that would be more interesting as it gives it more time to activate flingos to put it down or to use a feather fan. And it makes sense with her love for fires. NOTE: the 2 ideas are not mutually exclusive, if anything they synergize pretty well together.

Quote

Adding fuel to fires is more effective for Willow.

This is almost perfect and gives the perfect niche for the nightmare light (given it works for it)! If you can add it to other stuff that burn fuel like flingos and lanterns it would be by far the best; maybe even Winona's small generators (the GEMerators should stay untouched). Even better if her lighter, lanterns, miner hats, and torches last longer in her hands. Although first we need to know how much more effective it is... I guess a 25% increase is good enough, but if it is just a middling 5 or 10%...

Quote

Bernie can now be equipped by Willow for sanity and warmth at the cost of durability.

Uh... What? I mean, this is almost the equivalent of wearing your best friend's skin as a coat... Honestly way too creepy...

Also it is completely unnecessary considering there are a myriad of warm equipment already. I can even list them: breezy and puffy vest, cat cap, bearger vest, tam o' shanter, beefalo hat (winter equipment by excellence), winter hat, and rabbit earmuffs; for a total of 8 winter equipment; 2 of them are amazing sanity equipment too: the bearger vest and the tam o' shanter (and the bearger vest also slows down hunger).

Quote

Bernie grows big and will taunt and fight most hostile creatures when Willow is nearby and insane.

Bernie will still taunt Shadow Creatures when any other player is nearby and insane.

What I am getting from this is that Bernie is stronger (and able to taunt hostile creatures) while close to Willow specifically, it seems he will be able to do some damage as well (I guess only near Willow). It is kinda nice, but I still don't like that Bernie only works while a character is insane, and that it only becomes "stronger" near Willow... I think it should be active at all times, be able to taunt small hostile creatures (hounds, spiders, bats, and cave worms; but no varg or giants) and nightmare creatures, and become stronger if a character nearby is insane (get 2 times as much health, no need for Bernie to do damage at all). But this is a wait and see, I guess; so for the moment I remain neutral.

Quote

In addition, Willow still gains sanity near fire and can still cook with her Lighter.

Understandable. But I suppose she is still the only one able to cook on her lighter? If so, a lost opportunity to make her ever so slightly a team-player that can make lighters for her team like Wigfrid can make battle gear for her team, or Wickerbottom books for a Maxwell, or the newly re-worked Winona build catapults for her team. The radius is not big enough to be a viable torch replacement, specially with how expensive it is in comparison; but is an amazing portable campfire (mostly because is the only one). Another option is to remove durability from her lighter, in that case it would definitely be a good replacement for a torch since it's free, at least until you get a lantern or miner hat...

[Alexias]

-Temperature change

Decent players will not notice this change

-No more downside when you get insane? But i liked this downside, it make sanity a huge deal and encouraged sanity management.

-temporary fire immunity 

Well it’s better than nothing

-Fire pit is creative perks

- Equip bernie for sanity

good in early game but outshadowed by tam in mid game

bernie changes are good

Suggestions

-increase her lighter range to same as lantern, that way i can give all my teammate a light

[Tapirus]

58 minutes ago, Canis said:

 

  Hide contents

I was dared to look up DST r34 one time. Oddly enough, only like 10% of it is Willow.

 

What any of this has to do with the Update?...

[gbBaku]

Guys, most of you seem to be missing the fact that Willow will now finally be the best at one role, which always instantly makes a character useable.

Willow will now be a better tank than Wolfgang or WX-78. Make a few bears, be ready with sewing kits, and you've got your taunting meat shield army to help out your team.

Sure, you can argue that it helps newer players more who can't kite, but that would be a dumb argument, because same can be said for all characters. You can just as easily make the argument that more damage from Wolfgang helps new players more who can't last fights as long. If we took such arguments seriously, we'd all be Wes mains.

It's no accident that many games, LOL, WOW, OW, just to name a few, has tanks. That **** is useful, it's easier to support DPS characters like Wolfgang this way. This combined with Bernie's old use, which admittedly was not enough by itself, I think Willow will be finally playable and useful.

[TheKingDedede]

24 minutes ago, pedregales said:

Uh... What? I mean, this is almost the equivalent of wearing your best friend's skin as a coat... Honestly way too creepy...

I thought it meant holding onto Bernie like, you know, a teddy bear? Hugging it, basically. Equipped does not automatically mean 'wear'. Time will tell how this plays out, however.