[POLL] PvP rebalance interest

[_Ellat_]

43 minutes ago, _Ellat_ said:

It's impossible to balance pvp so a single person can deal with a group of 4 and that is what needs to be fixed

Or maybe you know a solution to this I'd really like to know

^ This

Or maybe its not clear enough too?

[4 Da LOLs]

who needs PvP in game when we have the perfect arena here!

[1bubbainpa]

...I’ll try to give my point of view admist the flaming.

So without having played a pvp server for a few good months, here’s what the problems I think with pvp are:

1. Sleeping is the GOAT in pvp. This makes things such as the pan flute or wickerbottom stupidly OP. It allows one player to beat one large group of people with little to no counterplay.

2. On the topic of wickerbottom, certain characters are much more meta than others. Wigfrid starts with her battle tools, Wolfgang can get mighty, Wicker has her books, etc.

3. The main way of fighting in DST is kiting. This does not translate into pvp very well.

4. Theoretically, a person who joined on day 1 has much more resources and tools then somebody who joins day 6. It’s annoying to join a server with all the resources already plucked around you. I can’t imagine fighting the person with the resources if they’re near spawn.

 

Honestly? I think that there are too many problems with the fundamentals of combat in don’t starve to support PVP. The only way to make “pvp” work would be having the deva dedicate a large amount of time to it. Judging by the number of pvp servers I see, however, it appears that the pvp players are a minority.

[_Ellat_]

28 minutes ago, _Ellat_ said:

Hmpf pride

Instead of this pointless discussion maybe you'll say WHAT exactly fix with pvp and how

And this @BeanBagSonic

 

[FreyaMaluk]

18 minutes ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Every weapon had a special attack (right-mouse click) that could do AoE dmg, dash and the like. So in scenario someone runs away, another player can opt for said special to catch up/do dmg.

 

 

In another line of thought as someone that previously was pretty anti-PvP as a DST concept, also needlessly flaming because I've gone into these types of threads hot headed and with aggressive attitude 'cause I thought "my toys might be taken away" aka fearing nerfs to characters, I want to point some aspect that seem to be glossed over (by yours truly too):

 

1. more or less JoeW pointed this year priority has ANR2 content;

2. PvP at this point, as a concept, is not so much a matter of priority but of awareness - that it exists, is lacking, needs rework, has potential - like everything new;

3. PvP balance doesn't mean necessary PvE will have to suffer in any shape or form;

4. people complaining a prominent PvP in future could attract "toxic people" to the game (more so than in present) - yes, maybe it could, but it will siphon the "toxic people" in PvP, including ones that might go otherwise to PvE, griefers included - Win-Win scenario in my book.

5. current pool of PvP-interested people is at 31%; even if is a small sample, still is a sample and points to a pretty significant number; at least it deserves some attention.

 

@_Ellat_ c'mon ma dude, play friendly, no need to turn this into a "dumpster fire".

 

Will also use this opportunity to apologize to @Lillyth, @Crimson Chin and @BeanBagSonic for my previous pretty much unwarranted crappy jabs borderlining insults in past PvP-related topics, more so as you were new in here forums and such "welcome" shouldn't had happen. I can see it more now with what happened in previous pages of current topic.

The idea of this post is pretty much awereness anyway. You can see I explicitly added questions that covered the things mentioned before. 

Joe already said that 2019 is not gonna happen for PvP rework.. As u see in question 4, it gives u concrete data on how how people feel about PvP priorities .. I included both PvP and PvE alongside mind u. 

Ofc I want awareness but awareness in context of how most people feel about it. That's important. 

The potential is there for PvP to be cool but we need to push concrete ideas. This senseless back and forth mixed with aggression doesn't help. 

 

[NoscopeFelix]

1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

The idea of this post is pretty much awereness anyway. You can see I explicitly added questions that covered the things mentioned before. 

Joe already said that 2029 is not gonna for for PvP rework.. As u see in question 4 gives how prioritize people feel about PvP.. I included both PvP and PvE alongside. 

Ofc I want awareness but awareness in context of how most people feel about it. That's important. 

The potential is there and we need to push concrete ideas. This senseless back and forth mixed with insults doesn't help. 

 

Psssst , you wrote 2029

[FreyaMaluk]

2 minutes ago, NoscopeFelix said:

Psssst , you wrote 2029

Already edit ty

[BeanBagSonic]

3 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Did I ever say u insulted anybody? I said aggression.. And no concrete ideas pls read what I say... 

Whats its bothering me is this pointless exchange of no substance... 

As I said before.. Pls take 5 minutes and ask yourself what do you want PvP to be like... Write those ideas in a comprehensive list... That's all I am asking for u.. 

Aggression comes to insult, and vice versa. Nothing is ever black and white, and that's what I wanted to say when I made my previous post. As for taking time, for my posts I will say that as I'm thinking them out, it takes longer than 5 minutes, but unfortunately for the list that would also take a lot more than 5 minutes, so I can't get the list to you on time, but eventually when things settle down and PvP is given a new light, I will do my best to propose what could be done, and what should be done, for both PvP and PvE.

6 minutes ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Every weapon had a special attack (right-mouse click) that could do AoE dmg, dash and the like. So in scenario someone runs away, another player can opt for said special to catch up/do dmg.

To further expand upon this great point, the Forge's weapons have had functions just like this, and it would be fantastic to see those weapons incorporated into the base game, with some minor edits for balancing purposes such as the darts have durability, using 10% per shot and 50% for the special attack. Of course the values could be changed, but this general idea is a very good one, and I appreciate the input.

8 minutes ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

In another line of thought as someone that previously was pretty anti-PvP as a DST concept, also needlessly flaming because I've gone into these types of threads hot headed and with aggressive attitude 'cause I thought "my toys might be taken away" aka fearing nerfs to characters, I want to point some aspect that seem to be glossed over (by yours truly too):

 

1. more or less JoeW pointed this year priority has ANR2 content;

2. PvP at this point, as a concept, is not so much a matter of priority but of awareness - that it exists, is lacking, needs rework, has potential - like everything new;

3. PvP balance doesn't mean necessary PvE will have to suffer in any shape or form;

4. people complaining a prominent PvP in future could attract "toxic people" to the game (more so than in present) - yes, maybe it could, but it will siphon the "toxic people" in PvP, including ones that might go otherwise to PvE, griefers included - Win-Win scenario in my book.

5. current pool of PvP-interested people is at 31%; even if is a small sample, still is a sample and points to a pretty significant number; at least it deserves some attention.

It's completely natural to have felt that way, and as a Wolfgang player I might have been scared of losing my toys, but in the long run I believe all character reworks will give so much more life into the cast of characters. As for your points, you're pretty much said what I would for all those points. Toxicity is something that will always be present in any shape or form in any game. It's a sad reality, but there have been implemented ways to deal with them on Klei's part, which I am appreciative of.

11 minutes ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Will also use this opportunity to apologize to @Lillyth, @Crimson Chin and @BeanBagSonic for my previous pretty much unwarranted crappy jabs borderlining insults in past PvP-related topics, more so as you were new in here forums and such "welcome" shouldn't had happen. I can see it more now with what happened in previous pages of current topic and what you pro-PvP lot are subjected to.

It's alright, we forgive you. It was understandable at the time from your viewpoint to have been bothered by others proposing a possibly undesirable change for a game you love. What we want to do is make DST an amazing game, because I still believe it has its charm and is a fun game as it is, but DST is oozing with potential, as demonstrated with the Forge and Gorge, that can bring so much life to the base game, PvE and PvP. That is what I've been wanting to express. Thank you very much though for being courteous and polite.

[FreyaMaluk]

9 minutes ago, BeanBagSonic said:

Aggression comes to insult, and vice versa. Nothing is ever black and white, and that's what I wanted to say when I made my previous post.

Aggression doesn't relate to insult 1 to 1. A person can be passive-aggressive without a single insult and escalate situations with aggressive retoric... Ergo why it's has aggression in the word. Again... Let's focus on the important thing... Concrete ideas 

[BeanBagSonic]

10 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Aggression doesn't relate to insult 1 to 1. A person can be passive-aggressive without a single insult and escalate situations with aggressive retoric... Ergo why it's has aggression in the word. Again... Let's focus on the important thing... Concrete ideas 

My wording was off on that one, my apologies. I'm aware that it doesn't relate 1 to 1, but I wanted to say that even through aggressive actions it can be taken as an insult. Passive-aggressiveness can follow the same line where through action, and not through just direct wording, said actions could be insulting to others. I understand what you mean though that they aren't the same, but in cases they can also have similar effects, if that makes sense to you.

Concrete ideas, these are small though. For PvP changes that would also affect PvE in a positive way: Have STS and Pan Flute make players drowsy instead of putting them to sleep; this change would not affect PvE since players can't be put to sleep, but it would make PvP situations a bit more fair to deal with. Another could be to have player hits on players not always stun them, similar to how bee stings work. This idea might be a bit more controversial though because at the moment we rely on landing stuns to get more hits on a player, but this can be remedied with additional weapons, mostly the Forge ones with balancing edits to not instantly smash players, but give more variety in how players can be fought. This would also fix the issue of some players running for eternity if the Forge's ranged weapons were introduced, albeit with aforementioned edits to make them balanced.

Unfortunately, I can't remember what else would have helped PvP a little bit, but for now the ideas above could serve as a reference when thinking about how PvP can be improved without manuring on both PvP and PvE. @Ashkain had some great ideas in his posts too, which can also serve as a reference.

[Cytryn7]

A small point form me:

Recently I started playing on Hunger Games dedicated server. As you can guess it's PvP. This was the best experience I had in this game so far. I played a lot of PvE before, but after trying PvP I must admit, this game mode is brilliant. But in this case, situation is different. Developers of this mod are trying to balance characters all the time and it works perfectly. I don't know how it looks on different servers.

@_Ellat_ "Delete PvP" argument is just dumb. Why developers would delete content that many people enjoy

[ItsPizzaTime]

PvP currently doesn't have a place in this game. There is no balance pertaining to PvP as this game was made around singleplayer/co-op PvE, the amount of re-balance needed for not only every character but many items and world generation would be comparable to Klei making a new event AT LEAST, with zero payout for Klei at all considering the popularity of PvP as it stands now. 

Combined with the fact that Klei has said that hosting these events for the forge/gorge is just barely allowing them to make profit I doubt they'd be willing to set up dedicated servers as well, which is the other major problem with PvP in a game like this. If the server isn't hosted off a good connection that provides a fair ground for all players then whoever is host is going to have priority on most attacks and be sometimes seconds ahead which is a big advantage.

Also PvP in this game has proven time and time again to be a ripe breeding ground for toxicity, if earlier comments made in this thread aren't already proof enough that people get overly emotional about the game mode.

There's too many odds weighing against this one, major re-balance and dedicated servers with no guaranteed payout for the developers and the type of environment isn't made for a game like this.

[FreyaMaluk]

4 minutes ago, BeanBagSonic said:

My wording was off on that one, my apologies. I'm aware that it doesn't relate 1 to 1, but I wanted to say that even through aggressive actions it can be taken as an insult. Passive-aggressiveness can follow the same line where through action, and not through just direct wording, said actions could be insulting to others. I understand what you mean though that they aren't the same, but in cases they can also have similar effects, if that makes sense to you.

Concrete ideas, these are small though. For PvP changes that would also affect PvE in a positive way: Have STS and Pan Flute make players drowsy instead of putting them to sleep; this change would not affect PvE since players can't be put to sleep, but it would make PvP situations a bit more fair to deal with. Another could be to have player hits on players not always stun them, similar to how bee stings work. This idea might be a bit more controversial though because at the moment we rely on landing stuns to get more hits on a player, but this can be remedied with additional weapons, mostly the Forge ones with balancing edits to not instantly smash players, but give more variety in how players can be fought. This would also fix the issue of some players running for eternity if the Forge's ranged weapons were introduced, albeit with aforementioned edits to make them balanced.

Unfortunately, I can't remember what else would have helped PvP a little bit, but for now the ideas above could serve as a reference when thinking about how PvP can be improved without manuring on both PvP and PvE. @Ashkain had some great ideas in his posts too, which can also serve as a reference.

I think that taking forge area as some sort of base is a nice idea... I think @Pop Guy mentioned that one in the Roadmap 

The panflute and I guess Wicker sleepy time stories changes on players only in PvP is reasonable 

I still think that stunlocking and kitting needs to radically change for a good PvP experience and so far I haven't seen any idea that could make it balanced 

That's pretty much the bulk of the work and unless we give a good idea to solve that problem I don't see klei putting any resources to improve it. 

That's my opinion. 

[BeanBagSonic]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

I think that taking forge area as some sort of base is a nice idea...

I more so meant the Forge weapons, though the arena could be nice for those who would rather have quick PvP rounds, because PvP prep time can take long to reach optimal prep, and that's not counting magic. I'm more for the Forge weapons because their mechanics were super interesting and would be fun to see in the base game being used against actual players rather than AI. It would make for a very dynamic and very interesting form of fighting, but then comes your next point which I agree with.

2 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I still think that stunlocking and kitting needs to radically change for a good PvP experience and so far I haven't seen any idea that could make it balanced 

This can somewhat be remedied by my past proposition of including the Forge weapons into the base game, but even with varying ways of striking a player or enemy, it still boils down to the traditional stunlocking and kiting. I would like to think though that the inclusion of Forge weapons could change the way in which you approach players, and would thus make fighting more than just a matter of stunlocking and kiting with DST's mostly-melee-weapon arsenal, since Forge did have a fair amount of ranged weapons, and melee weapons with minimal ranged capabilities and the ability to block all hits for a short time.

[FreyaMaluk]

1 minute ago, BeanBagSonic said:

I more so meant the Forge weapons, though the arena could be nice for those who would rather have quick PvP rounds, because PvP prep time can take long to reach optimal prep, and that's not counting magic. I'm more for the Forge weapons because their mechanics were super interesting and would be fun to see in the base game being used against actual players rather than AI. It would make for a very dynamic and very interesting form of fighting, but then comes your next point which I agree with.

This can somewhat be remedied by my past proposition of including the Forge weapons into the base game, but even with varying ways of striking a player or enemy, it still boils down to the traditional stunlocking and kiting. I would like to think though that the inclusion of Forge weapons could change the way in which you approach players, and would thus make fighting more than just a matter of stunlocking and kiting with DST's mostly-melee-weapon arsenal, since Forge did have a fair amount of ranged weapons, and melee weapons with minimal ranged capabilities and the ability to block all hits for a short time.

Forge weapons in base game are not gonna happen and they are clearly focus on PvE.. They gave stunlocking mechanics and aoes.. All clearly PvE focused 

Weapons don't make a PvP experience good. There is much more to it. 

[Terra B Welch]

Really if theres going to be any PvP balancing it should be done in such a way that it does not affect PvE at all.

Once again I point towards minecraft's 1.9 combat system, it was a rebalance done soely to satisfy the PvP community(which from what I heard it did a pretty poor job at that), and it basically completely messed up PvE and made it horribly tedious to play(and heck, even impossible to a degree if modded, the internal server thing + no click spam = you just take hits and can't actually hit due to singleplayer server lag.)

Imagine if the 1.9 combat system was only a thing for PvP scenarios, if players could still clickspam in PvE but when attacking other players it would invoke the cooldown.

What does minecraft have to do with DST you ask? Well it was just an example of bad PvP specific rebalancing, and if it was set up to only rebalance PvP it wouldn't be an issue.

Now for DST, imagine if say... Woodie had singleplayer damage and armor in werebeaver form(51 damage, 80% armor) in PvE scenarios only, but in PvP scenarios(attacking other players) he would have his nerfed damage and armor(27.2 damage, 25% armor). This would make the werebeaver alot more practical in DST, but not OP in PvP.

Basically PvE and PvP need to have seperate balancing, changing one thing for the sake of PvP or PvE should not affect the other in my opinion.

[FreyaMaluk]

2 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

Well, The Forge was a solid event, well balanced and structured, I personally think that even in PvP it would be a lot of fun.
However the DST PvP is not bad at the moment: it would really only require a slight rebalancing of some characters and instruments, but nothing that should influence PvE or too drastic.
On the contrary, I think that to improve PvP and make it optimal just do the following:
Stop killing another PG the first two days of spawn (to allow him to collect his first resources and settle in the world)
Accelerate resource regeneration.
Make objects that fall asleep at short range (ie you have to be very close for them to work; in addition to limiting the area of effect)
Remove Wigfrid's spear and helmet.
Prevent Wx-78 from having more than 250 in each statistic.
Give Wolfgang a bonus of only 1.5x of damage on other players in full hunger.
And that's enough, I already think that PvP would be very well balanced and fun.
As in part it already is for me.
Actually I find DST a fun game in every aspect, only then I fly with the fantasy and I always find things that could be added to make it even more beautiful :'D

But u see.. Pvp with forge could only work with PvP Teams.. And I think this is the flaw in comparing forge weapons and what not and think this is gonna work for PvP solo

If PvP assigns groups that are linked together.. And no individual madness.. Then I could see PvP being fun

PvP group vs group

That has the potential to be awesome and the changes to apply would much simpler.. Plus the team work will still be there.. Win win imo 

[BeanBagSonic]

13 minutes ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

PvP currently doesn't have a place in this game. There is no balance pertaining to PvP as this game was made around singleplayer/co-op PvE, the amount of re-balance needed for not only every character but many items and world generation would be comparable to Klei making a new event AT LEAST, with zero payout for Klei at all considering the popularity of PvP as it stands now. 

Combined with the fact that Klei has said that hosting these events for the forge/gorge is just barely allowing them to make profit I doubt they'd be willing to set up dedicated servers as well, which is the other major problem with PvP in a game like this. If the server isn't hosted off a good connection that provides a fair ground for all players then whoever is host is going to have priority on most attacks and be sometimes seconds ahead which is a big advantage.

Also PvP in this game has proven time and time again to be a ripe breeding ground for toxicity, if earlier comments made in this thread aren't already proof enough that people get overly emotional about the game mode.

There's too many odds weighing against this one, major re-balance and dedicated servers with no guaranteed payout for the developers and the type of environment isn't made for a game like this.

If there truly weren't a place for DST, then it would have never been included in the game. There is currently no balance pertaining to PvP because of how it's been neglected, which is why in turn people believe PvP shouldn't exist in the first place and disregard the potential that PvP has to spice up DST and offer more variety in how DST can be played. As for you saying the changes would require a whole new "event," I disagree with you there. I think PvP can be worked on without it having to hurt PvE or be excluded into its own event like Forge or Gorge. Even past events that we've had in DST have potential to work in the base game.

I wouldn't say that one forum thread, or even several, would be a good example of representing the PvP community as a whole. In fact, what you're seeing is PvE players who are vocally against PvP and have become toxic due to expressing their emotions rather then ration thought on the idea of PvP. In my experience I have met my greatest friends in PvP, and most of my PvP experiences were not nearly as toxic as you think it to be.

3 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Forge weapons in base game are not gonna happen and they are clearly focus on PvE.. They gave stunlocking mechanics and aoes.. All clearly PvE focused 

Weapons don't make a PvP experience good. There is much more to it. 

I don't believe I said Forge weapons would be the holy grail for PvP, but it would be an interesting addition alongside mechanical fixes. Your claim about them being "clearly" focused on PvE is not entirely true. You're disregarding Klei's flexibility when it comes to tweaking items and mechanics, and the weapons' stunlocking and AoEs can all work fine in a PvP setting with a few balances. Give it 5 minutes of thought, imagine players using the weapons with their specials and all. Much like an old post of mine where I had said "Imagine handing a cheeseburger to a starving Day 1 Wilson" in reference to the Gorge's mechanics and assets being implemented into the base game. All is possible with time, at least I'd like to put such faith in Klei.

1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

But u see.. Pvp with forge could only work with PvP Teams.. And I think this is the flaw in comparing forge weapons and what not and think this is gonna work for PvP solo

If PvP assigns groups that are linked together.. And no individual madness.. Then I could see PvP being fun

PvP group vs group

That has the potential to be awesome and the changes to apply would much simpler.. Plus the team work will still be there.. Win win imo 

I had missed this quote at the time of writing, but with adjustments to the Forge weapons, they can work in both single and multiplayer settings. You can have a 1v1 with both parties using Forge weapons, and still have a fun time battling without complaining that one guy's overpowered, and the same can be said with proper teams which is a point you made that I like. It would be very interesting to have a mechanic where players can be assigned to teams and team players can't hurt each other. All in all, I'd like to encourage the porting of Forge content, but also Gorge content, because as many past posts have said, it would be the best to cook with the Gorge's cooking stations and having all the Gorge's foods introduced into the base game. I can't ever emphasize how much I LOVE the sprite work on the Gorge foods, and it's really sad for me that those assets/mechanics are essentially thrown aside with the Forge assets/mechanics.

[Crimson Chin]

1 hour ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Will also use this opportunity to apologize to @Lillyth, @Crimson Chin and @BeanBagSonic for my previous pretty much unwarranted crappy jabs borderlining insults in past PvP-related topics, more so as you were new in here forums and such "welcome" shouldn't had happen. I can see it more clearly now with what had befallen in previous pages of current topic and what you pro-PvP lot are subjected to.

Awwww, thanks! This means a lot to me. I'd also like to apologize for anything that I have said that may have came off as rude, I think we all got a little more heated than we would have liked to! Absolutely no hard feelings!

[h2mk]

Pvp not being good right now does not mean it should never be updated, in fact I think the opposite. This poll proves something that while obvious to some before it, is made more obvious by the poll.

Nobody likes pvp in it's current state

 my opinion: it should be updated for that exact reason. But I wouldn't want it to be integrated and interfere with the base game, if done well that could work though.

I get that some people do not want this, but pvp could be an amazing addition to the game.

I don't like limited time events, but a lot of people like them so they are perfectly okay.

Here's an analogy. If I made a poll asking if people played Willow before the upcoming rework majority would say no.

There are many other characters that are not Willow just like there are many things to do other than pvp.

Willow is not a good character gameplay wise. Pvp is not a good system gameplay wise.

Basically, what I and others want is a pvp revamp, similar to the character revamps

Though I do not think pvp is a top priority compared to character reworks.

[FreyaMaluk]

8 minutes ago, BeanBagSonic said:

If there truly weren't a place for DST, then it would have never been included in the game. There is currently no balance pertaining to PvP because of how it's been neglected, which is why in turn people believe PvP shouldn't exist in the first place and disregard the potential that PvP has to spice up DST and offer more variety in how DST can be played. As for you saying the changes would require a whole new "event," I disagree with you there. I think PvP can be worked on without it having to hurt PvE or be excluded into its own event like Forge or Gorge. Even past events that we've had in DST have potential to work in the base game.

I wouldn't say that one forum thread, or even several, would be a good example of representing the PvP community as a whole. In fact, what you're seeing is PvE players who are vocally against PvP and have become toxic due to expressing their emotions rather then ration thought on the idea of PvP. In my experience I have met my greatest friends in PvP, and most of my PvP experiences were not nearly as toxic as you think it to be.

I don't believe I said Forge weapons would be the holy grail for PvP, but it would be an interesting addition alongside mechanical fixes. Your claim about them being "clearly" focused on PvE is not entirely true. You're disregarding Klei's flexibility when it comes to tweaking items and mechanics, and the weapons' stunlocking and AoEs can all work fine in a PvP setting with a few balances. Give it 5 minutes of thought, imagine players using the weapons with their specials and all. Much like an old post of mine where I had said "Imagine handing a cheeseburger to a starving Day 1 Wilson" in reference to the Gorge's mechanics and assets being implemented into the base game. All is possible with time, at least I'd like to put such faith in Klei.

I had missed this quote at the time of writing, but with adjustments to the Forge weapons, they can work in both single and multiplayer settings. You can have a 1v1 with both parties using Forge weapons, and still have a fun time battling without complaining that one guy's overpowered, and the same can be said with proper teams which is a point you made that I like. It would be very interesting to have a mechanic where players can be assigned to teams and team players can't hurt each other. All in all, I'd like to encourage the porting of Forge content, but also Gorge content, because as many past posts have said, it would be the best to cook with the Gorge's cooking stations and having all the Gorge's foods introduced into the base game. I can't ever emphasize how much I LOVE the sprite work on the Gorge foods, and it's really sad for me that those assets/mechanics are essentially thrown aside with the Forge assets/mechanics.

Pls stay on topic with the gorge comments to avoid losing the threads... 

I still believe PVp linked group vs group would work best overall... With the least changes cuz balancing all characters one to one doesn't seem a feasible task with klei resources. 

I don't see how can you balance a one to one wolfy vs Wicker without making wolfy completely op from the get go. I'm not saying is imposible but even with mire weapons the brute Melee has much more priority anyways. 

[h2mk]

Yeah, changing all of the characters in cooperative dst to suit a game of one may not even play is a bit much.

[WilsonGuy_]

Wait... do you actually play DST for PVP? This... isn't the purpose of this game...

Sure... playing against real, smart opponents may be attractive after fighting predictable AI for a long time, but... my experience tells me that people, that are more focused on empty, uncreative killing others on-shight and that do anything to find such aspects in a game meant to co-operate and help each other, are often... severly (or mildly)... intoxicated.

These kinds of people always worry me a little bit.

[BeanBagSonic]

2 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Pls stay on topic with the gorge comments to avoid losing the threads... 

I still believe PVp linked group vs group would work best overall... With the least changes cuz balancing all characters one to one doesn't seem a feasible task with klei resources. 

I don't see how can you balance a one to one wolfy vs Wicker without making wolfy completely op from the get go. I'm not saying is imposible but even with mire weapons the brute Melee has much more priority anyways. 

I had already stated tweaks in past posts on how a Wolfgang vs a Wickerbottom could be remedied. I would appreciate it if you read my past posts before responding, and if you don't see how something could work, give it 5 minutes of thought or ask the question rather than just stating you can't see it, because then I can't help you there.

As for the Gorge comments, they can very well be relevant to the concern of PvP messing with PvE because the Gorge's mechanics are PvE-oriented, and would overall make both sides happy. I had also added the Gorge comments to act as a bit of comic relief, and I believe I had kept it brief with the Gorge comments, rather than having it encompass my whole post.

[h2mk]

1 minute ago, Wilson_pl said:

Wait... do you actually play DST for PVP? This... isn't the purpose of this game...

Sure... playing against real, smart opponents may be attractive after fighting predictable AI for a long time, but... my experience tells me that people, that are more focused on empty, uncreative killing others on-shight and that do anything to find such aspects in a game meant to co-operate and help each other, are often... severly (or mildly)... intoxicated.

These kinds of people always worry me a little bib

When did anyone say that?