MrBastian

is there ever coming a two player mode?

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KittenIsAGeek    827

Probably not.  The closest would be if you and your buddy are sitting beside each other and collaborating.  Other than that.. it would take a complete redesign of the game to introduce multi-player.  There are multiple discussion threads about it on this board.  Use the search tool and I'm sure you'll find plenty.

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SakuraKoi    340

[Insert/Imagine Engineer_Nope.gif here, ironically I could not find any good one. No high res or no helmet up->head up->head down->helmet down, never even mind walking away in any of them... what has this world come down to? Have memes no (visual) quality standards anymore!?]

Well, anyway, like already said, ONI is not designed to be MP and the design does not allow for proper MP like certain Bethesda titles could easily be.

"We can manage the colony together and independently give orders (when there is no haste anyway)" or "We can trade resources" are not a proper MP experience. It is not much more than just sitting next to each other or share the screen (and voice) over IP.

Other sandboxes work in MP because one controls the characters oneself and one can literary double one's army force, when there is some imminent threat. However ONI is not a sandbox like Don't Starve but like a city-builder (what is the difference between a colony and a city after all?) or Rimworld with even less threats and no ability to give direct orders besides "move".

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cpy    182

I havent posted nope in these kind of topics in a long time. I thought people stopped posting about multiplayer.

NOOOOPE.

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watermelen671    9,145
1 minute ago, Junksteel said:

They confirmed last live streaming that there are no plans for multiplayer.

Inb4 people come clamouring with "bUt THeY sAiD thAT fOR doN't sTArve"

...yes, they did. Just because there's precedent doesn't mean it's going to happen.

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Loraty    23

A nice way for simple multiplayer would be the ability to send each other rockets (with cargo, obviously). Could be combined with the trade system already mentioned.

A real multiplayer (i.e. two or more people playing on the same map at the same time): Please no.

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KittenIsAGeek    827
30 minutes ago, Loraty said:

A nice way for simple multiplayer would be the ability to send each other rockets (with cargo, obviously). Could be combined with the trade system already mentioned.

A real multiplayer (i.e. two or more people playing on the same map at the same time): Please no.

 

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Soulwind    204

Well they did do a Don't Starve Together.  Maybe a Don't Suffocate Together isn't out of the question?

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BadlyBurned    172

With mods being added, is there ANY chance someone could make something to add some sort of MP?

I know nothing about making mods or how they work.. I just know that Rimworld is single player, but there is a mod you can get that allows you to do some MP stuff like trading, etc. The dev for that game also said he wasn't going to do MP, but the mod was made, and I know a lot of people use it.

Not asking someone to do it.. just seeing if anyone can clear up speculation on "if" it were possible at all with mods.

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KittenIsAGeek    827
1 hour ago, BadlyBurned said:

With mods being added, is there ANY chance someone could make something to add some sort of MP?

I know nothing about making mods or how they work.. I just know that Rimworld is single player, but there is a mod you can get that allows you to do some MP stuff like trading, etc. The dev for that game also said he wasn't going to do MP, but the mod was made, and I know a lot of people use it.

Not asking someone to do it.. just seeing if anyone can clear up speculation on "if" it were possible at all with mods.

This has been asked and answered before.  In the thread I linked above.  ^^^

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Loraty    23
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

This has been asked and answered before.  In the thread I linked above.  ^^^

Now I understand why you linked that post in your quote. 

But the post you quoted only talks about true MP with two or more people playing on the same map. That does not apply here.

Stuff like trading could easily be done. All it does is add / remove some resources after all. I think it could even be done in a mod. I'd have to take a look at modding ONI, but if mods can make internet connections and move items from / to a storage container then yes, this would work.

Edited by Loraty
Grammar be hard for non native speakers.

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Gravityx    24
46 minutes ago, Loraty said:

Now I understand why you linked that post in your quote. 

But the post you quoted only talks about true MP with two or more people playing on the same map. That does not apply here.

Stuff like trading could easily be done. All it does is add / remove some resources after all. I think it could even be done in a mod. I'd have to take a look at modding ONI, but if mods can make internet connections and move items from / to a storage container then yes, this would work.

The post does describe the issues with trading, from a balance perspective. If you want to trade, yes, it is technically "possible"...but how would that be any different from literally just playing sandbox mode?

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Loraty    23
2 minutes ago, Gravityx said:

The post does describe the issues with trading, from a balance perspective. If you want to trade, yes, it is technically "possible"...but how would that be any different from literally just playing sandbox mode?

Because you have to give something in order to get something? That's basic rule of trading. 

Sorry, I'm being a smartass. I missed that sentence in the quoted post. But that's just one opinion, anyway.

ONI is a sandbox game already. You create your own challenges. You like it easy? Play on easy. Or use one of the dozens of exploits. Or one of the mods which will add just about anything you can imagine.

Not doing something just because it might make the game easier does not seem like a good reason. ONI will never be a challenge unless you want it to be.

For me, the ability to send rockets from colony to colony (be they my colonies or somebody else's) adds immersion and a sense that there is something beyond my little asteroid. 

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KittenIsAGeek    827

OK, @Loraty, lets go with your scenario of trading via rockets.  How would that work?  Is it synchronous (both parties have to be playing at the same time) or asynchronous (one  or more individuals don't have to be online at the time of the trade).  

First, lets assume 'synchronous.' How are they synchronized?  It would be fair to say that having the machines directly contact each other would not be safe from a cyber security aspect, so you would want to connect through a centralized server.  We'll get into that later.  For now, lets discuss synchronized problems.  First, you'd have to deal with connection issues, such as "what happens if I click 'trade' and the other party logs off?"  Then you'd have to deal with content issues: Is one (or more!) of the parties engaging in trade using mods that alter the game significantly from the other?  Third, you need to deal with progression issues: Is one party going to be significantly impacted by the results of the trade due to a difference in revealed technology?  And finally, you have to deal with who is allowed to trade.  Can any random Joe start a trade demanding helpful materials for their base?  Would there be a means of finding players who are interested in buying resources for profit?  One thing that really plagues single-player games with a nod to multiplayer are individuals trying to either harass others or exploit a monetary gain.  Would it be fair to only allow trades on your friend's list?  Or would players feel that was too limiting?

Second, lets look at asynchronous.  This can ONLY happen if there's a centralized server.  Since we skipped that above, lets go into that.  First, who's paying for it?  Second, who's hosting it?  Would it be some small computer in Klei's back room, or would it be part of Amazon's cloud networks?  Would players want to contribute a monthly fee for access?  So we've got this centralized server that we connect to.. what happens if we send a trade to someone who asked for help then decided to never play again?  Would you lose the materials and get nothing in return? Does your rocket come back? What is an acceptable timeframe?  What happens if someone sends you a  rocket you're not wanting or expecting?  How would you and your potential trade partner get in touch? Many of the issues above also apply here: scammers, spammers, trolls, mods, game progression, etc.  These would all have to be dealt with in some way for a trade to occur.

Next, lets look at some other issues about multiplayer trading in ONI.  How would a fair trade be defined? Would trades be allowed that aren't fair (from a game perspective) such as '100T niobium for 1kg sandstone and $5 to your paypal?'  I know, and you know, that you could just turn on Sandbox and spawn that niobium.. but would a brand new player?    Should this type of action be permitted or not?  Who moderates the trades?  Do they need moderating?  What would make trading in ONI unique from turning on sandbox mode other than the illusion of working with another individual?  

My personal opinion is that ONI would not benefit, as a game, by allowing cross-player trading.  This isn't a game that is locked down by a centralized server like Minecraft.  Nor is it a progression play like Don't Starve.  Its a sandbox game.  Trading between ONI players would be like two individuals playing in their own separate sandboxes.  One player says "Hey, I need more sand," and the other player says, "I got you! Here, have a bucketful."  Meanwhile they're ignoring the infinite dune of sand directly behind them.

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Loraty    23

Not sure I want to go into this at such detail, @KittenIsAGeek. But I'll try to address most of your points.

For synchronous trade a lot of the problems can be dealt with by using Steam Matchmaking. You can find trade partners in a lobby or in your Steam friends list. Steam also deals with all communication issues.

Asynchronous would require a lot more coding and a server, as you say. So let's ignore that option.

Progression issues: I don't really see a problem here. ONI is a single player game. You can cheat. Cheating, for those so inclined, will be just one Google search away. But still, keeping trade away from very young bases might be a good idea.

So let's have the players build a rocket landing place. That requires access to the surface, steel, meteor detection. We could even add a requirement for cooling down the landing rocket and dousing any fires: The player has to fill a tank with 500kg of liquid carbon dioxide.

What is a fair trade? I wouldn't regulate that at all. Because, realistically, you cannot. But, does it matter? You can still cheat. And I'm sure there will be mods to give you anything you want for much less effort. By the time you're able to build the landing place you'll know about all this.

Difference between sandbox and working together: Games are all about illusion. In the end, it is just bits and pixels. Your willingness to accept the illusion is the key. In the back of your head you know you could just turn on debug for a minute and fix that thing that will take you and your dupes hours to fix in normal play. But you do not, because you accept the illusion. So could two players share the illusion, share tasks, and exchange resources. 

Need for trading: Maps can be very different in ONI. Depending on the geysers you might have a good reason to trade. I'm not sure, actually. For me, the limiting factor has always been water. Everything else you can work around or create. So you might be right that there is no need to trade.

For trade to be meaningful the ONI base game would have to change, creating lack and abundance of resources on each map, so that the abundance on one map can fill the lack on another map. Probably not a good idea.

Maybe we can agree that rocket based trading would be a nice idea for a mod, but not a good addition to the base game?

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BadlyBurned    172

I'm just sad that all my enjoyment for this game is internal. I just had a friend buy this game, the only friend I have on steam out of dozens and dozen who has ever given it a shot.

I immediately jumped on chat to wish him a fun journey, but that's about the extent of what I can do with a new friend who has decided to also play a game I love. Feels a bit disappointing to say the least.

I'd even be happy with an Observer mode where I could silently watch a friend play and maybe talk over discord and "ping" things on his screen to help him get started or understand the basics.

I don't know what I want, but I feel like a lot of people who make these posts asking about multiplayer are in the same boat. They don't really want to rewrite the game, they just feel that there could be some external way to enjoy this game with others.

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SakuraKoi    340
2 minutes ago, BadlyBurned said:

I'd even be happy with an Observer mode where I could silently watch a friend play and maybe talk over discord and "ping" things on his screen to help him get started or understand the basics.

If there is no screen sharing software with ping function-overlay... then I am utterly disappointed in the internet. Not the first time it happens today and surely not the last but anyway (am I expecting too much even though I do not expect anything?), for such external software should be used. It's foolish to implement it, a quite minor feature given the infrequent usage and effect yet costing a lot of code (to the point where no modder would do it just like dat), into each game separately unless actually being part of the core gameplay. 

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BadlyBurned    172
28 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

I think it could work that way!
 

Unbensdadannt-1.png

 

I saw a showerthought on reddit that said "While TVs get bigger, games that support split-screen are less and less frequent"

Totally true and crazy. My screen could easily handle what you see above, but it'll prob never happen.

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0xFADE    344

If you split the lag between multiple people it might not be as bad. 

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