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Elin64

QOL3 - New desease system

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Elin64    7

Hello,

I tested qol3 for a few hours playing 3 early games. 

I really don't understand how my dupes get deseases. I tested slimelung very carefully and it seems my dups get sicks when waking up after night while they worked all day in slime without getting sick.

Do dups get sick from breathing or do they get sick from having slimelung on them, or both?

Does someone understand how it works?

 

thanks for your help

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JohnFrancis    347

Don't have concrete info only observation. If a dupe is exposed to germs it will show up when you click on them on the first tab near the top of their info card. Something like "exposed to food germs" this indicates they are at risk of getting sick. This exposure will last several cycles and at some point they MAY get sick. So if you exposed all your dupes to germs some may get sick some may not and when they succumb would appear to be random. I assume it's a dice roll thing based on number of germs exposed to but I don't have any hard info to back that up.

The real kicker is slim lung causes sneezes that release germs, so one dupe with slime lung can infect the entire base. Sure you can cure the infected dupe only for a cycle or two later another dupe who was exposed to a sneeze gets sick. Then they sneeze everywhere and that reinfects the dupe you cured only a cycle before. Soon your entire colony consists of "just cured", "exposed" or "sick".

I don't believe it's possible to treat a dupe who is "exposed" you can only treat them after they get sick, can anyone confirm this?

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Elin64    7

Waht you have analysed is coherent with my observations.

If it's like this really i don't understand how the devs can think it's a better system than the previous one.

The booster / cure mechanics are fine for me, way better than the old system. But the way dupes get sick is just nonsense, it really makes me want to stop a game i loved playing so much...

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Gurgel    1,095

I agree that the infection system used now does not make much sense. It is simply not clear how things work. And that dupes only get sick when waking up (also works for narcoleptic sleep) makes things even less clear. 

I liked the old system because you could keep an eye on things and act early and it was very clear how disease works.

Besides the infection mechanics, I do like the other disease-relayed changes though.

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chemie    584

worst part is their infection does not matter if exposed to 1 or 1 million germs so you in fact ignore the infection mechanic completely.  Seems stupid.

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Gurgel    1,095
21 minutes ago, chemie said:

worst part is their infection does not matter if exposed to 1 or 1 million germs so you in fact ignore the infection mechanic completely.  Seems stupid.

Yes. Dumbed down wayyyyy too much.

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Sasza22    2,043

The previous system made them sick based on the amount of germs in the air and the time the dupe was exposed to them. On top of that the dupe immunity traits mattered and vitamin pills as well. Now it seems like we lost a few components. The amount of germs and exposure time don`t seem to matter (maybe they do) and we don`t have a warning that a dupe is getting sick only a warning it might randomly happen.

We need more information. We don`t know what is going on. Randomness can work but it needs to be clear what affects it and what doesn`t.

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JohnFrancis    347

I understood the old system but I did have to look it up. Dealing with slime lung has always been a popular topic with the newer players, so I don't think it was very clear cut before either. I'll give it a game and see how I feed at the end

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Nitroturtle    555

Like many others, I agree the system needed updated.  With the old system, you could more or less avoid even using any of the medical stuff and just avoid dupes getting sick.  I like that they've tried to add a purpose in the game for all of this.

With that said, I also agree that the current system is nonsense.  I had a single packet of PO2 floating around at one point and ended up with several dupes getting sick.  Well, at least that's my assumption since all of a sudden I had dupes getting sick with slimelung and only saw one packet floating around.  There's no warning that I can see and it's completely random.  This was around cycle 30, and I had yet to establish any kind of medical equipment, so I basically just ignored it.  Other than my dupes working a bit slow, it really didn't even seem to matter that much.

Maybe with some practice I'll figure out how it works and be able to have a little more control.  But it doesn't seem intuitive at all at this point.

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KittenIsAGeek    1,074
4 hours ago, JohnFrancis said:

I don't believe it's possible to treat a dupe who is "exposed" you can only treat them after they get sick, can anyone confirm this?

You can produce Boosters with the Apothecary that will reduce the chance of a dupe getting sick after exposure.

Spoiler

image.png.bb8770f5c2f2a6acdcf2dd373b0cfeab.png

I haven't had the opportunity yet to test how good they are -- my base design has prevented my dupes from getting exposure for the first 45 cycles so far.  I assume at least one dupe will catch something when I start cleaning out a slime biome, but properly placed sanitation has definitely prevented food poisoning.

Oh, and the dupe traits of 'biohazard' and such do affect how easily dupes catch diseases still.  I tested that mechanic with an old base.

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chemie    584
13 hours ago, Nitroturtle said:

  This was around cycle 30, and I had yet to establish any kind of medical equipment, so I basically just ignored it.  Other than my dupes working a bit slow, it really didn't even seem to matter that much.

Maybe with some practice I'll figure out how it works and be able to have a little more control.  But it doesn't seem intuitive at all at this point.

Yah, so you ignore the random infection vector so you dont change how you play the game and then ignore the actual disease when they get sick.  What's the point Klei was getting at here?

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Elin64    7

 

7 minutes ago, chemie said:

Yah, so you ignore the random infection vector so you dont change how you play the game and then ignore the actual disease when they get sick.  What's the point Klei was getting at here?

I just hope the devs read us. /pray

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Sasza22    2,043

Well in theory we should be able to use the med bay to quarantine sick dupes so they don`t spread slimelung around the base. I`m not sure how well you can quarantine them in QoL3 though.

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Junksteel    597

Anyone know how to exterminate sporechid germs?

I accidentally left an open small hole from oil biome and germs took over the entire map.

Any other way to get rid of that besides venting all the contamined gasses to space?

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Miravlix    87
16 minutes ago, Junksteel said:

Anyone know how to exterminate sporechid germs?

I accidentally left an open small hole from oil biome and germs took over the entire map.

Any other way to get rid of that besides venting all the contamined gasses to space?

Read up on the germs, it will tell you what kills them and what makes it grow.

 

Temperature, Chlorine, oxygen can be great ways to solve germ problems. I haven't looked up sporechid yet, so not sure what rules it has.

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Junksteel    597
3 minutes ago, Miravlix said:

Read up on the germs, it will tell you what kills them and what makes it grow.

 

Temperature, Chlorine, oxygen can be great ways to solve germ problems. I haven't looked up sporechid yet, so not sure what rules it has.

No displayed info about temperature for sporechids.... it seems immune to temperature, the highest or lowest.

They seem to spread in any gasses except chlorine.

As we only have 1 gas per tile, how can I use chlorine at all to fight the germs? I mean, the other gasses will remain contamined and chlorine will continue unnafected.

Pumping all contamined gasses passing through a chlorine room is the only thing I had in my mind but couldn't test yet. I hope this will not be the single final solution besides venting all to space.

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Alfons100    329

God dammit have we really looped again where people want the disease system to be made more difficult, it gets more difficult and people get mad. Now all we need is the current system to be nerfed and we've truly looped.

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Junksteel    597

Well, I guess this is expected for an early access game when feedback is being taken.

What truely worries me is the amount of radical changes so close to release... There will be no time to test and adjust things properly.

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simonchvz    38
1 hour ago, Alfons100 said:

God dammit have we really looped again where people want the disease system to be made more difficult, it gets more difficult and people get mad. Now all we need is the current system to be nerfed and we've truly looped.

That's kind of oversimplifying to the point of disservice, no?  It's pretty reasonable to say that the current system is opaque enough to make it difficult to engage with, the tools we have to deal with it are pretty few at the moment, and that the consequences are small enough to make ignoring it less of a hassle than dealing with the system at all.  Only tuning (or pretending every discussion is about) the third lever isn't going to solve this particular issue by itself.

For my vote, I think having some early-midgame tools to engage with and solve the allergy issue is the biggest sticking point to enjoying the system - but as @JohnFrancis mentioned above the community often comes up with solutions before the devs do.  I just hope someone wins the race before release.

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Xuhybrid    208

I don't know what was so bad about the original system that it needed an overhaul. New players still struggled a lot with it and now it's more RNG and counter-intuitive for no real reason.

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Grimgaw    451
8 minutes ago, chemie said:

well, we can always look to mods to solve this issue......

Let's leave that attitude for Bethesda's games.

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miauly    115
4 hours ago, Junksteel said:

Anyone know how to exterminate sporechid germs?

I wonder is there a way to create a decontamination passage in a way that dupes can go through, not get exposed, and not get any germs back with them on exosuits. Even in a chamber filled with chlorine, where dupes will be forced by checkpoints to change the suit, they will become exposed when changing because germs won't be killed immediately, won't they? Passing a room filled with liquid chlorine? Will it kill the germs quick enough?

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chemie    584
6 minutes ago, miauly said:

I wonder is there a way to create a decontamination passage in a way that dupes can go through, not get exposed, and not get any germs back with them on exosuits. Even in a chamber filled with chlorine, where dupes will be forced by checkpoints to change the suit, they will become exposed when changing because germs won't be killed immediately, won't they? Passing a room filled with liquid chlorine? Will it kill the germs quick enough?

when it only takes a single germ,  I dont think there is any prevention that you can take

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CDoroFF    66

My dupes getting slimelung while standing on sterile tile and breathing sterile air (pic). At least it looks like sterile. But even in that sterile situation they "exposed to slimelung". And I have no clue how. They dont work with infected materials without exosuit. I have sterilized all my slime storages. However the epidemy of slimelung inherit my base developement drastically until I train a doctor.
BTW! At first, doctor require train both Tinkering and Kindness skills since first is needed to produce cure faster and second to apply it. At second, slimelung is intermediate sickness and required corresponding skill level (2) and med bed (sick bay). At third, I have no idea how to train "care" since it takes 2 seconds to cure slimelung, further more, I see no point to do it, because of the same reason. Seems strange, but currently my medic need not care skill but require operating one. May be substitution of "care" and "kindness" by "medical skill" will bring more logic in the game? In the contex of apothecary usage too.

Spoiler

20190415212711_1.jpg

Abe just get sick in the same circumstances.

Spoiler

20190415215826_1.jpg

 

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