What's your Willow Refresh Wish list?

[FreyaMaluk]

10 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Ok, I will USE capital letters to emphasize my arguments like you seem to do, I hope it makes what I type CLEAR.

________

You said and I quote "The game isn't perfectly logical compared to irl but the fire mechanics are PRETTY CONSISTENT in the game." Capital letters edit by me, so if you're going to use CONSISTENCY as an argument to why changing the fire mechanic for Willow is bad then I'll counter argue why consistency isn't a ALWAYS a good reason when considering REWORKS and UPDATES. For that I used a few examples such as (copying and pasting with caps lock edits):

________

You said: "healing STILL applies alongside Wortox healing"

Yes it does, but as I SAID and you SEEMED to IGNORE was the WAY you apply the healing properties of an item  i.e. RIGHT CLICKING the item.

Here is my quote: "Weren't healing items pretty consistent in the game too? You RIGHT CLICKED it to heal, until Wortox became a thing."  Capital letters edit by me.

By this I mean, BEFORE it was pretty CONSISTENT, to heal you RIGHT CLICK. But AFTER with Wortox new healing item, that consistency is no more, to heal you need to DROP it, if you RIGHT CLICK you will just eat the new item.

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You said: "monster drops STILL exist after Wortox"

Yes, monster drops still exist after Wortox, but as I SAID and you SEEMED  to IGNORE was that before Wortox came there was NO SPECIAL CHARACTER's DROP.

Here is my quote: "So are the monster drops, until Wortox came they would only drop their own loot, no SPECIAL CHARACTER's DROPS." Capital letters edit by me.

BEFORE Wortox monster drops were pretty consistent, they had THEIR OWN drops. AFTER Wortox, the monsters got a new SPECIAL drop PARTICULAR to Wortox.

________

My third argument was: "If I want to NITPICK then I could even say that before Strange New Powers all characters were pretty consistent in Don't Starve. "Capital letters edit by me.

This, as I said is in the NITPICKING territory, BEFORE Strange New Powers ALL characters were the SAME in GAMEPLAY, making the gameplay for Don't Starve CONSISTENT for ALL characters, but AFTER that update that GAMEPLAY CONSISTENCY broke for the characters.

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Now I'll quote your last line:

"why would Willow protect loot from turning into ash when she delights on seeing stuff burn bright?? her lore doesn't support it..."

And to that I said previously that I'm NOT even DEFENDING the Willow's fire mechanics change. I will quote the line for it: "I'm NOT DEFENDING Willow's fire mechanics change, but CONSISTENCY ISN'T ALWAYS A GOOD ARGUMENT AGAINST REWORKS AND UPDATES." Capital letters edits are mine, and I had to overdo it this time to make my POINT clear.

________

 

Dude, are you just arguing for the sake of arguing without knowing where this all discussion is actually coming from?

This argument began not with me against Willow changes at all cuz consistency for the sake of consitency... But with someone else's argument saying Willow should have a fire safety area around her that prevents the loot from mobs killed by fire in said area to combust and become ash. 

To that particular suggestion I say... No.. It doesn't makes sense... Willow likes to burn things.. In fact she relishes on seeing something burn bright. 

To other changes... Sure... As long as they make sense. 

[Pop Guy]

4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

nope... sorry.. not really...

Eye Bone (ashes)- "I bet that eye thing was quite a sight wreathed in fire!"

Smashed Clock- "I'd love to burn that to ashes."

A Smashing Pot- "Wish I could burn it."

Glommer's Flower (ashes)- "I wish I saw the way that weird flower burned."

Ashes of item- "I wish this thing was still burning, whatever it was."

You're right, Willow with skills to prevent, extinguish or limit the destructive potential of fires makes no sense :'D
I reiterate my proposal: make she fight with fire!

[Sweaper]

1 minute ago, Pop Guy said:

You seem a little confused

Yes.

1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Dude, are you just arguing for the sake of arguing without knowing where this all discussion is actually coming from?

This argument began not with me against Willow changes at all cuz consistency for the sake of consitency... But with someone else's argument saying Willow should have a fire safety area around her that prevents the loot from mobs killed by fire in said area to combust and become ash. 

To that particular suggestion I say... No.. It doesn't makes sense... Willow likes to burn things.. In fact she relishes on seeing something burn bright. 

To other changes... Sure... As long as they make sense. 

No, I'm arguing because you used consistency as an argument against changes.

[FreyaMaluk]

2 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Yes.

No, I'm arguing because you used consistency as an argument against changes.

No I didn't.. You just jumped in the middle of the discussion...

[Sweaper]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

No I didn't.. You just jumped in the middle of the discussion...

"The game isn't perfectly logical compared to irl but the fire mechanics are pretty consistent in the game."

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, Sweaper said:

"The game isn't perfectly logical compared to irl but the fire mechanics are pretty consistent in the game."

Pls scroll up dude... Context is important... 

[Sweaper]

Yes I did, does it change the meaning of the sentence? Or you didn't mean to say what you just said?

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, Sweaper said:

Yes I did, does it change the meaning of the sentence? Or you didn't mean to say what you just said?

It does cuz I was referring to that fire safety area... Like everything context matters... 

[Sweaper]

3- This was to poke fun at you saying that a proposed mechanic was illogical in a game where logic is constantly thrown out the window. -Canis

3. The game isn't perfectly logical compared to irl but the fire mechanics are pretty consistent in the game. All that dies by fire burns and the loot with it.. Pretty straightforward to me.  - FreyaMaluk

You were using consistency as an argument to change fire mechanics. If you were not, then enlighten me what you meant by that.

[FreyaMaluk]

@Sweaper... ok... dunno if yuo are trolling at this point cuz u just have to literally scroll up to see where is this coming from.. but there

this is the suggestion I was commenting on

 

On 4/17/2019 at 3:34 PM, Szczuku said:

Maybe give her an aura that prevents enemies killed by burning to drop ash.

Y'know Willow's fire obsession got turned into a kind of power in the Constant, just like Wicker's books. Enemies in maybe 3/4 tiles radious for Willow won't drop ash when killed by fire.

I was actually confused  by it so I asked why when Willow likes to burn stuff

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Did you seriously not get my point?

...enemies die by fire but drop normal loot. Loot doesn't turn into ash 

and to that idea I say...again.. no... 

lore doesn't support it... In fact it would go completely against her whole personality

context matter... ALWAYS

now.. this is what I suggested

On 4/17/2019 at 1:00 PM, FreyaMaluk said:

This is an awesome concept. I would add a "charge" mechanic to the fiery weapons so Willow and other players have a visual reference. She could even have some lines of text related to that.

The warmer the weapon gets the more dmg it deals but also the higher the risk to hurting Herself with fire.

That would be cool cuz she is not gonna affect other stuff around her. It would be more like an insane burning wave causing hp dmg to her only or the person using the weapon. 

Her fiery weapons overheat the person using it but then Willow should have overheat immunity anyways, which by default makes her the best character to use the fiery weapons the first place. 

The weapons will cool down if not used and the charging effect could start again. That could make a great tactical advantage to switch between different weapons to utilize the charge strategically or simply take the hp heat dmg and heal it up. 

Her fiery weapons could even be fireproof in spring... Something we already see in SW and obsidian weapons and a great feature for Willow to be the master assassin in that season. 

- putting out flames immediately at the cost of sanity is a great feature for fire control. She could even put out lasting fires that other characters can't. 

- Innate fire fuel efficiency. A great multi-player feature. Maybe even an exclusive campfire with bigger radius. 

- braziers that can work along roads. If she fuels them they could last lit day and night for 3 days straight. Other characters only half the time or maybe just a day. That would make her a great character and ally in all seasons. And it's obviously a great reason to play her if you like the braziers as deco. 

- overheating immunity. Clearly a must and it doesn't really affect other players so why the hell not. 

- I think fire immunity is a touchy subject for the devastating effects fire can have in dst. Overheating resistance might be the best way to go or even a couple of seconds of fire immunity but that's about it. 

cuz context matters... that's the reason why I even mentioned loot and ashes...

33 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

3- This was to poke fun at you saying that a proposed mechanic was illogical in a game where logic is constantly thrown out the window. -Canis

3. The game isn't perfectly logical compared to irl but the fire mechanics are pretty consistent in the game. All that dies by fire burns and the loot with it.. Pretty straightforward to me.  - FreyaMaluk

You were using consistency as an argument to change fire mechanics. If you were not, then enlighten me what you meant by that.

 

[Stonetribe]

4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

nope... sorry.. not really...

Eye Bone (ashes)- "I bet that eye thing was quite a sight wreathed in fire!"

Smashed Clock- "I'd love to burn that to ashes."

A Smashing Pot- "Wish I could burn it."

Glommer's Flower (ashes)- "I wish I saw the way that weird flower burned."

Ashes of item- "I wish this thing was still burning, whatever it was."

I think you're sort of missing my point. It's not that Willow wouldn't love to set fire to every single thing in sight. But I'm fairly certain that she also likes being alive just a little bit more. Everyone would love to simply not work for a living, but they do because, well they want to live. I won't argue that being a pyromaniac, she has a few screws loose, but self preservation still seems fairly important to her.

[FreyaMaluk]

13 minutes ago, Stonetribe said:

I think you're sort of missing my point. It's not that Willow wouldn't love to set fire to every single thing in sight. But I'm fairly certain that she also likes being alive just a little bit more. Everyone would love to simply not work for a living, but they do because, well they want to live. I won't argue that being a pyromaniac, she has a few screws loose, but self preservation still seems fairly important to her.

self preservation vs burning loot when you are attacking with fire doesn't have anything to do with each other

if she burns the loot cuz she was attacking with a fire staff, she is not gonna die as a result... 

as with any other character... killing by fire is simply accompanied with the risk of burning loot... and her immediate life doesn't depend on it... it's just convenient if it wouldn't burn.. but it doesn't make sense she would have an ability to protect loot from fire.. it simply doesn't... her whole personality doesn't support that 

as u mentioned.. she "has a few screws loose" but that doesn't mean she doesn't have some game logic or that she should get an ability that doesn't fit her character.

[Sweaper]

23 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

@Sweaper... ok... dunno if yuo are trolling at this point cuz u just have to literally scroll up to see where is this coming from.. but there

this is the suggestion I was commenting on

 

I was actually confused  by it so I asked why when Willow likes to burn stuff

and to that idea I say...again.. no... 

lore doesn't support it... In fact it would go completely against her whole personality

context matter... ALWAYS

now.. this is what I suggested

cuz context matters... that's the reason why I even mentioned loot and ashes...

 

Yes, context matters. But using consistency to defend your point doesn't make sense. I don't care about what changes they make to Willow (or any other character), but maintaining consistency isn't something we should keep in mind when reworking characters.

And just because one doesn't agree with your thought process does not make them a troll. I don't know if you're trolling (I'm being sarcastic here) but I explicitly say that I wasn't defending Willow's fire mechanics, my problem is when someone uses "keeping a game mechanic consistent" as a defense against a change, any changes.

[FreyaMaluk]

Just now, Sweaper said:

Yes, context matters. But using consistency to defend your point doesn't make sense. I don't care about what changes they make to Willow (or any other character), but maintaining consistency isn't something we should keep in mind when reworking characters.

And just because one doesn't agree with your thought process does not make them a troll. I don't know if you're trolling (I'm being sarcastic here) but I explicitly say that I wasn't defending Willow's fire mechanics, my problem is when someone uses "keeping a game mechanic consistent" as a defense against a change, any changes.

so I guess you agree that she should protect loot from fire?

does that makes sens to u?

I used consistency talking about how fire works and how her quotes deny this idea.. but pls go ahead and explain your position... 

why do you support she should have a fire safety aura?

[Sweaper]

Where did I say I support the idea? Quote me please.

[FreyaMaluk]

3 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Where did I say I support the idea? Quote me please.

then we should completely destroy and ignore what her core personality is? she is the Firestarter...

as I said before I didn't argue consistency for consistency's sake... just to keep some basic core logic... she like to burn things...

[Sweaper]

1 minute ago, FreyaMaluk said:

hen we should completely destroy and ignore what her core personality is? she is the Firestarter...

I didn't say that either.

2 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

as I said before I didn't argue consistency for consistency's sake

I don't remember you saying that before, but ok.

If there are changes there are by definition no consistency and because we are talking about Willow's rework there is no way to keep her working the same way. So don't use consistency as an argument against changes,

6 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

just to keep some basic core logic... she like to burn things

You mean lore logic, right?

[FreyaMaluk]

3 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

I don't remember you saying that before, but ok.

you don't remember I said what I said literally 2 seconds ago.. really

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

This argument began not with me against Willow changes at all cuz consistency for the sake of consistency...

 

25 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

then we should completely destroy and ignore what her core personality is? she is the Firestarter...

as I said before I didn't argue consistency for consistency's sake... just to keep some basic core logic... she like to burn things...

----------

consistency is a concept that ensures a bit of logic... I'm not against a rework.. like at all ... just against suggestions that don't fit her

you just seem to be arguing... cuz reasons... 

8 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

You mean lore logic, right?

no i mean core.. core logic of her character.. she gains sanity from burning things... how does this CORE mechanic should be ignored?

[Stonetribe]

42 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

self preservation vs burning loot when you are attacking with fire doesn't have anything to do with each other

if she burns the loot cuz she was attacking with a fire staff, she is not gonna die as a result... 

as with any other character... killing by fire is simply accompanied with the risk of burning loot... and her immediate life doesn't depend on it... it's just convenient if it wouldn't burn.. but it doesn't make sense she would have an ability to protect loot from fire.. it simply doesn't... her whole personality doesn't support that 

as u mentioned.. she "has a few screws loose" but that doesn't mean she doesn't have some game logic or that she should get an ability that doesn't fit her character.

I think that it goes a little further than convenience since this doesn't just apply to loot, consider sources of food or an entire camp site that she herself built. Willow would certainly enjoy setting fire to everything and watching it burn to the ground, but I think that she's also smart (and sane) enough to realize that she needs that stuff to live even if there aren't any short term consequences.

It would certainly be fitting for her character to go to town and start burning everything in sight when she first found herself stranded in the Constant, but I think that before long she would begrudgingly learn that doing so doesn't leave much for her to eat.

But if she had an ability to burn stuff while mitigating the consequences, that just means that she's able to indulge her love of starting fires all the more often.

[FreyaMaluk]

2 minutes ago, Stonetribe said:

I think that it goes a little further than convenience since this doesn't just apply to loot, consider sources of food or an entire camp site that she herself built. Willow would certainly enjoy setting fire to everything and watching it burn to the ground, but I think that she's also smart (and sane) enough to realize that she needs that stuff to live even if there aren't any short term consequences.

It would certainly be fitting for her character to go to town and start burning everything in sight when she first found herself stranded in the Constant, but I think that before long she would begrudgingly learn that doing so doesn't leave much for her to eat.

But if she had an ability to burn stuff while mitigating the consequences, that just means that she's able to indulge her love of starting fires all the more often.

but we already have something in place for that... she can build flingos .. but why would she go out of her way to create a fire safety aura? 

[Stonetribe]

11 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

but we already have something in place for that... she can build flingos .. but why would she go out of her way to create a fire safety aura? 

The camp thing was just an example of how she wouldn't want to set fire to the things that she needs to help her survive, which would exactly be the case if she builds an ice flingomatic in the first place. The original idea was her being able to set mobs on fire while preserving whatever helpful loot they might drop.

[Sweaper]

14 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

I didn't argue consistency for consistency's sake

Yeah, it's been an hour since the reply, it could have been 2s for you. But I acknowledged the quote either way.

21 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

just to keep some basic core logic... she like to burn things

She "like"-ing is a personality trait, not a gameplay mechanic. So, lore.

"she gains sanity from burning things" is a gameplay mechanic.

Don't change the words that  I quoted please.

15 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

no i mean core.. core logic of her character.. she gains sanity from burning things... how does this CORE mechanic should be ignored?

I don't know, did I say something about ignoring it?

[X-lem]

She really needs something that brings value to all of the players. Her lighter and Bernie don't really add value to other players.

Could be simple things to bigger things. Maybe if there is a firepit and she's standing by it she randomly adds fuel to it at no resoure cost. Maybe things like wood, grass, and sticks count as a bigger fuel count than other players do.

I think fire immunity is a solid must