New drecko behavior

[RonEmpire]

Just now, Oozinator said:

One thing. I had sometimes a feeling, that ONI clients behave different, in some situation.

Yea. I get that feeling too.  I think it has to do with the RNG.  different computer will process or do RNG differently.

 

[RonEmpire]

6 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

The 2 tile deep water lock as you show in that image is exactly what my shine bugs escaped from. And yes, there was more than 100kg in each top tile. 

is it pssible that an egg landed in the water and while its hatching it escaped through the other side.   I know that's a possible way the water lock doesn't work.   in which case you'd need an arm to sweep eggs out of the water.  which I've had to do with my puff farm before.

[Oozinator]

5 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

differently.

Another thing, i see you horde shine bugs, may i bring your attention to this?

 

 

[RonEmpire]

I hope we can get a QOL   DOOR that actually works for containing Critters.   

I would like to also have a TRUE   airlock door, where gas and liquid doesn't actually escape when you walk through it.    Cuz this idea of using water lock is just bad.    I mean they added visal gel but that's a bit of a cheesy bandage solution to water lock.

2 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Another thing, i see you horde shine bugs, may i bring your attention to this?

 

 

Totally agree with you on those.   Its so hard to see through all LUX.    I had to build a second lure just to move all my bugs out of the way so I can do some building/tweaks to the area.    

[Saturnus]

20 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

is it pssible that an egg landed in the water and while its hatching it escaped through the other side. 

No. That's not possible. It just flew out while watching it.

However, I think you're missing my point entirely. With pneumatic doors not blocking critters, and common U and V bend water locks most people use not blocking critter movement either then ranching in its current state is pointless. Not because it isn't possible to set up a ranch now, hell you can brute force it by using tubes, but the problem is that with 3 tile deep water locks we're talking set ups that wouldn't fit in most peoples designs, and we're using more than 6t of water for each. It's simply so much trouble to set up a new ranch in the current state of the game that most people won't even bother trying, and therefore ranching has become a pointless waste of skill points.

[RonEmpire]

Just now, Saturnus said:

No. That's not possible. It just flew out while watching it.

However, I think you're missing my point entirely. With pneumatic doors not blocking critters, and common U and V bend water locks most blocking critter movement either then ranching is in it's current state pointless. Not because it isn't possible to set up a ranch now, hell you can brute force it by using tubes, but the problem is that with 3 tile deep water locks we're talking set ups that wouldn't fit in most peoples designs, and we're using more than 6t of water for each. It's simply so much trouble to set up a new ranch in the current state of the game that most people won't even bother trying, and therefore ranching has become a pointless waste of skill points.

Agreed.      There needs to be a better solution to containing  critters.

[Mariilyn]

Could it be that starved or overcrowded critters are trying to escape?

I just started a squeaky puft ranch in my game and noticed the puft prince stuck in the door (a powered auto airlock) 2 times in less than 5 cycles, and just assumed he was trying to reach the polluted oxygen on the other side of the door. On the other hand none of my wild (fed and not overcrowded) bugs have ever escaped their room.

[ChickenMadness]

4 hours ago, Angpaur said:

Are you aware that if you accuse someone of saying something wrong or false than you need to provide proof not the accused person?

I'm done with you, sorry.

but you're accussing him of being wrong lol.

I also agree that critters can move through pneumatic doors because they've done it in my games. It's usually the shine bugs that have done it in previous builds for me. This was before they added those background tiles to the pneumatic doors with the dry wall changes.

[Angpaur]

4 minutes ago, ChickenMadness said:

but you're accussing him of being wrong lol.

Maybe you need to look at the chronology of posts - I made statemant that pneumatic doors used to never allow critters to pass and then I was told I'm wrong.

It just never have happned to me, even with extensive ranching of all types of critters.

[ChickenMadness]

1 hour ago, RonEmpire said:

With water locks, I think they need to be 2 tiles of the same type AND the pressure needs to be above a certain amount. 

 

I've always found this to be the case in previous builds. If the top tile of water is a low number like 50kg critters just ignore it. (I don't know the exact number as I haven't tested it), I always made the water above 100kg atleast to stop pufts and dreckos from escaping.

I've not played the current version of the game much though so not commenting on that.

1 hour ago, Oozinator said:

One thing. I had sometimes a feeling, that ONI clients behave different, in some situation.

 

1 hour ago, RonEmpire said:

Yea. I get that feeling too.  I think it has to do with the RNG.  different computer will process or do RNG differently.

1

I think FPS has a lot to do with this type of stuff. The game behaves differently depending on the lagginess. Critters just stop moving altogether in my games after a certain point lol.
 

[Gracefulmuse]

19 minutes ago, ChickenMadness said:

 

I think FPS has a lot to do with this type of stuff. The game behaves differently depending on the lagginess. Critters just stop moving altogether in my games after a certain point lol.
 

I think this is worth checking out. I mentioned earlier that in my 1000+ hours I've only had a few critters escape. I didn't clarify, but I use almost exclusively pneumatic doors. Normally my dreckos just hang out *on* the door, but I have 100% witnessed them walk through on separate occasions. Both times that I can remember, they where in a rather large base, which means I was likely using debug modes superspeed (regular speed up I'm too impatient for.)

Perhaps this might be the case for RonEmpire as well?

[Angpaur]

13 minutes ago, Gracefulmuse said:

Perhaps this might be the case for RonEmpire as well?

If it might help your case - I haven't used debug mode nor super speed and I have never observed critters escaping. Maybe there is connection here. I usually play on speed 2 when base becomes larger to help improve FPS.

[RonEmpire]

34 minutes ago, ChickenMadness said:

I've always found this to be the case in previous builds. If the top tile of water is a low number like 50kg critters just ignore it. (I don't know the exact number as I haven't tested it), I always made the water above 100kg atleast to stop pufts and dreckos from escaping.

I've not played the current version of the game much though so not commenting on that.

I think FPS has a lot to do with this type of stuff. The game behaves differently depending on the lagginess. Critters just stop moving altogether in my games after a certain point lol.
 

Yea-  I've had critters just stop moving in my play throughs as well.  Puffs and Pacus  just simply do not move at all.   Gulpfishes won't convert PW to W.  Slickers just look stuck.   Endgame performance  causes critters to do weird things maybe they're the last on the list for getting calculated/processed - and the game just skips over them.

[pacovf]

This whole thing sounds like unintended behaviour, having critters escape for some people but not for others. Hopefully the devs see this and figure out what’s going on.

Hopefully they also make the behaviour consistent across doors. I don’t know why a pneumatic door should contain critters, but a powered automatic airlock doesn’t.

[KittenIsAGeek]

3 hours ago, RonEmpire said:

I hope we can get a QOL   DOOR that actually works for containing Critters.   

As far as I can tell, I've never had a critter escape through a pneumatic door.  I've had them escape through airlocks, but not pneumatic doors.  Though, the way I place doors and other buildings usually makes it  unlikely that a dupe will stand there holding the door open, which may also be a factor.  However, with airlocks (manual and mechanized), I've had them walking in during the open/close process and the next time the door opens, they'll walk out the wrong side.

1 hour ago, pacovf said:

Hopefully they also make the behaviour consistent across doors. I don’t know why a pneumatic door should contain critters, but a powered automatic airlock doesn’t.

I've had drekkos walk in to a powered mechanized airlock while a dupe was walking through.  The drekko was stuck there, until the next dupe walked through, at which point the drekko walked back out -- on the wrong side.

[beowulf2010]

I haven't noticed any increase in critters getting through doors, but I also build my stables so with a second level of containment. For example, all entrances to Hatch stables are via ladders and Drecko's have a 4 tall "jumping" viscogel airlock immediately outside the door. 

On a related note, I'm noticing that behavior around doors in general is different. I use a wider, flatter drecko ranch (a variant of @Neotuck) and they used to jump between the ceiling and floor. They no longer do so and will pass 3 spots they would formerly jump between to walk all the way around the end to get to the grooming and sheeting stations. Now, I unfortunately can't pinpoint when this happened because I actually hadn't built a Drecko ranch for a while. Was it the initial change to doors that made it so critters wouldn't fall through just by opening them (when they added the backgrounds and broke the simpler pez dispenser builds) or was it the patching fix a couple weeks ago that allowed dupes better access through them? 

I guess we just have to point things out through bug reports until we can figure out what the intended behavior is supposed to be. 

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, beowulf2010 said:

On a related note, I'm noticing that behavior around doors in general is different. I use a wider, flatter drecko ranch (a variant of @Neotuck) and they used to jump between the ceiling and floor.

I'll have to check that

[beowulf2010]

Just now, Neotuck said:

I'll have to check that

Thanks. I'm having trouble finding time to play right now. Between the 5 year old and 5 acres of spring pruning... 

[Neotuck]

Just now, beowulf2010 said:

Thanks. I'm having trouble finding time to play right now. Between the 5 year old and 5 acres of spring pruning... 

luckily my visitation with my 10 year old doesn't start till Friday and I live in an apartment so no yard work for me 

[Gracefulmuse]

42 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

luckily my visitation with my 10 year old doesn't start till Friday and I live in an apartment so no yard work for me 

I have lived in apartment housing for the past 13 years and I may keep it that way, even the thought of mowing grass stresses me out. 

[0xFADE]

They’ve always been able to path through open doors.  Worst thing you can do is have a dupe doing a job in the doorframe thus keeping the door open long enough for them to calculate a path through it.

[WanderingKid]

5 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

They’ve always been able to path through open doors.  Worst thing you can do is have a dupe doing a job in the doorframe thus keeping the door open long enough for them to calculate a path through it.

Up near the second page, there's some animated gifs of that not being true.  Airlocks have always allowed passage, pneumatics that were not set to *open* did not.  There's a change of logic for critters, at the very least dreckos which I tested, between QOL2 and 3.  Grab a save and setup a small test beween the two with a ranch you've setup.  Or take the one I linked in that post if you want for an example.  Flip between the live and the test branch.  You'll see significant differences.

The most likely suspect is that when they fixed doors, they fixed pneumatic doors as well which had different rules.  I'm hoping it was an oversight and that pneumatics will still behave the way they did.  If not, that's... unfortunate.  Ranching is already unwieldy enough that I've given up on it except for the absolute best ones (glossy and vole), and even that is in limited volumes.

[Gurgel]

6 hours ago, RonEmpire said:

I hope we can get a QOL   DOOR that actually works for containing Critters.   

I use triple pneumatic doors directly next to each other to keep Dreckos were the little [deleted] belong. Seems to be the only thing that works besides eradicating them all (which I also have done in the past).

[WanderingKid]

This issue has been marked as fixed in the bug tracker.  Shall we table the discussion until the next hotfix?

 

[0xFADE]

There is a lot of timing involved. Things will path through closed doors if they were open at the time they calculated their path.

You should be exploiting their movement to keep them put.  For example adult hatches can’t jump across 2 tiles so you can use ladders as flooring.  They can jump up 2 tiles so you need to account for that.