New drecko behavior

[Angpaur]

Are you aware that if you accuse someone of saying something wrong or false than you need to provide proof not the accused person?

I'm done with you, sorry.

[RonEmpire]

4 minutes ago, Angpaur said:

Are you aware that if you accuse someone of saying something wrong or false than you need to provide proof not the accused person?

I'm done with you, sorry.

Dude, I'm providing you proof.  I'm telling you how to test it out to prove that what you're saying is false and wrong.  

Your proof is that you've gone 1000 cycles and it hasn't happened to you yet-  And that is based on RNG.  It's not proof.

Do I need to create a save file and upload it for you to load up and actually see for yourself? 

Do I need to make a video recording or of some sort to show you ?

What further proof  do you need ?

I'm telling you how to see for yourself that Tamed pets CAN walk through doors when they're open.

If you don't want to accept that fact,   it doesn't bother me.   Its your game play.  If it works for you great. But when they start escaping that's your fault.

 

[SakuraKoi]

I've got the awkward feeling that one of them must be trolling... and of course I can tell who, after all since ancient times I have tried my own free-range and tower builds.

[RonEmpire]

4 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

I've got the awkward feeling that one of them must be trolling... and of course I can tell who, after all since ancient times I have tried my own free-range and tower builds.

I think the thing that bothers me the most is misinformation that spreads.   And this argument has been going on forever with the door and how their builds are always working and critters have never escaped after 1000 cycle argument.   It just flat false.  But if people don't want to believe it, and then it happens,  maybe they'll facepalm themselves later.  

[Angpaur]

11 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

I'm providing you proof.  I'm telling you how to test it out to prove that what you're saying is false and wrong.

No, you are telling me to do that job or you which I find offensive. Not going to happen.

My experience shows that pneumatic doors blocked critters pathing - I had a hatch ranch in highly commuted area, where dupes keep going through a room with more than 100 hatches so doors were being opened and closed many times per cycle. Room was 9 tiles wide so it means that on tiles near the pneumatic doors by avarage there were more than 10 hatches all the time, that had a chance to escape, if pneumatic doors allowed it. But it never happend for more than 1000 cycles time. And you keep trying to tell me I was just lucky?

[WanderingKid]

Pneumatic doors have always been an outlier.  Mechanical doors are just as quick and allow escapees.  Pneumatics, particularly steel pneumatics on auto, can't even get a vole out.  Mechanical Airlocks do.

I should probably say *did*.  I haven't ranched in QOL3 yet, so I haven't see the odd behavior.  I have however seen dreckos hanging off open *auto* doors and not going through them.  I've ranched through multiple versions, and the pneumatic vs. airlock discrepancy has existed for a good while.  *open* doors?  Yeah, right on through.  *auto* doors can stand there with a dupe in the doorway and nothing wandered by.

This is not luck.  This used to be a way to trap critters without having to do crazy things.  It was practically necessary for vole ranching other than using tube access.

[RonEmpire]

1 minute ago, Angpaur said:

No, you are telling me to do that job or you which I find offensive. Not going to happen.

My experience shows that pneumatic doors blocked critters pathing - I had a hatch ranch in highly commuted area, where dupes keep going through a room with more than 100 hatches so doors were being opened and closed many times per cycle. Room was 9 tiles wide so it means that on tiles near the pneumatic doors by avarage there wer more than 10 hatches all the time, that had a chance to escape, if pneumatic doors allowed it. But it never happend for more than 1000 cycles time. And you keep trying to tell me I was just lucky?

Well  that's your experience,    my experiences have been the opposite.   Critters leaving while the doors open and close.

I have a save file here (pre-live)  not preview.  I just rolled back to the live version.    It has 300 shine bugs in a room for a solar panel.   I deleted the lure.   And they're flying all over the place in the room with  pneumatic door  placed on one end of the room-  I have a water lock on one end of the room.     tamed shine bugs float off.

My ranch for Drecko has always been escaping the door because its the room I use to store my food and my kitchen as well. 

6 minutes ago, WanderingKid said:

Pneumatic doors have always been an outlier.  Mechanical doors are just as quick and allow escapees.  Pneumatics, particularly steel pneumatics on auto, can't even get a vole out.  Mechanical Airlocks do.

I should probably say *did*.  I haven't ranched in QOL3 yet, so I haven't see the odd behavior.  I have however seen dreckos hanging off open *auto* doors and not going through them.  I've ranched through multiple versions, and the pneumatic vs. airlock discrepancy has existed for a good while.  *open* doors?  Yeah, right on through.  *auto* doors can stand there with a dupe in the doorway and nothing wandered by.

This is not luck.  This used to be a way to trap critters without having to do crazy things.  It was practically necessary for vole ranching other than using tube access.

Vole definitely can not cross steel doors.  that was specifically coded in.

[WanderingKid]

2 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

Vole definitely can not cross steel doors.  that was specifically coded in.

Steel Airlock when opening/closing can let a vole out.  Steel Pneumatic cannot, unless it's set to *open*.

[RonEmpire]

Some proofs.   ( right room is set to auto wrangle critter 0/20 - this effectively instructs dupes to move critters from the right of the door into the middle room. but during this process, the critters in the middle room sneaks to the right)

For those who don't want to accept what's true.   and your builds depend on it being bullet proof that critters can't escape through pneumatic doors-   All I can say is use at your own risk. 
 

[Saturnus]

In QoL mk III with the recent update at least wild critters escape pneumatic doors. Haven't tested with tamed ones yet.

Test started with 10 of each type critter on the left. Dupes walks back and forth ten times. This is the result.

[WanderingKid]

31 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

For those who don't want to accept what's true.   and your builds depend on it being bullet proof that critters can't escape through pneumatic doors-   All I can say is use at your own risk. 
 

QOL Mk2.  I reverted the version and grabbed some old saves.

Voles and Dreckos:

QOL3 has different behavior.  I've attached the save for checking.

T - C150 - State of the Base Cycle 151.sav

[RonEmpire]

Just now as we speak I noticed my puff sneaked into a room I had setup for just a single shine bug only.    

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Test started with 10 of each type critter on the left. Dupes walks back and forth ten times. This is the result.

something definitely changed. same setup for both versions.
Mk2 the lure could not pull the bugs with a dupe idling in the door. Mk3 it takes them a moment, but the lure will pull them through the door.

 

[RonEmpire]

Tamed shine bugs crosses through the door.   I have a bunch of dupes walking back and forth locked in the bottom room there.  I dropped a few mush bars here and there for them to run to. 

You can tell they're tamed by the tag (tamed shine bugs have tags on them)

*I had a save file where I was using 300 tamed shine bugs to power up solar panels.     Switched it to sandbox to create the situation above.
 

[RonEmpire]

For me,

45 minutes ago, nonoxyl said:

something definitely changed. same setup for both versions.
Mk2 the lure could not pull the bugs with a dupe idling in the door. Mk3 it takes them a moment, but the lure will pull them through the door.

 

Well for me,     I've experienced critters leaking through doors when dupes passed them.     Maybe the behavior has changed from version to version but for me, when I experienced critters leaking-   I have always used water lock as my solution and worked under the rules that critters will leave when a door is left open or when a dupe passed.         It's possible that they changed the behavior last QoL2  and now its reverted to the behavior in QoL3 to what it has been before in the past. 

For me, I treat critters like Gas.  And all doors like  Airlock Doors,  gas will leak when the door opens/closes.    Critters will leak through a door on open/close.  

If "auto" has some special property, then "auto"  should behave the same way for gas and liquid.  Thus making "Airlock" Door actually be truly airlock.  But that's not the case.   I don't see that the case for critters either.   

[Saturnus]

14 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

I have always used water lock as my solution and worked under the rules that critters will leave when a door is left open or when a dupe passed.         It's possible that they changed the behavior last QoL2  and now its reverted to the behavior in QoL3 to what it has been before in the past. 

Sadly, critters are no longer trapped by water locks either in QoL mkIII. Not even flying critters.

[RonEmpire]

4 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Sadly, critters are no longer trapped by water locks either in QoL mkIII. Not even flying critters.

now that's bad.   I haven't caught that yet or tested it.  just been playing under the assumption that it would.   i'll need to create a sandbox test to see. 

 

I did notice earlier in my preview test  there was a dreck that was caught between 2 water 2 tiles and it wouldn't move at all. and laid eggs and the new dreko didn't move.   

[Saturnus]

Most common and certainly most automated ranching set ups are currently broken until the devs either fix the bugs they've made with the most recent updates, or they affirm it's intended so we can just ignore ranching as a viable game strategy altogether.

[RonEmpire]

Seems to work fine for me in preview and just did a sandbox test.   Spammed a dozen or so drecko and bug.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

For me, I treat critters like Gas.  And all doors like  Airlock Doors,  gas will leak when the door opens/closes.    Critters will leak through a door on open/close.  

Anymore, drekos are the only critter that I keep in a closed stable. This was my Mk2 dreko stable which lived for 400 cycles without an escape.

[RonEmpire]

Ah that's because you have 1 tile water and 1 tile oil.

The rules should be they don't cross 2 tile of the SAME liquid.  Also I think the pressure makes a difference too.

I've seen in QoL2  puffs have crossed my 3 tile water.  But that's because the pressure is so low.

[Saturnus]

9 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

Seems to work fine for me in preview and just did a sandbox test.   Spammed a dozen or so drecko and bug.

I'd hardly call that a common set up though. Maybe I should have noted that the water lock needs to be 3 tiles deep now whereas before it only needed to be 2 tiles deep.

As I said, most common ranch set ups are currently completely useless. It is therefore I conclude that ranching is almost entirely pointless in current version of mkIII because it is now so difficult to set up most people won't bother.

[RonEmpire]

this is how I contain my critters with waterlocks- I had a grooming station before but just deleted it. since the population count kept growing out of control on the shine bugs.   (they kept grooming bugs even when I had the building disabled) must have been a bug but just ended up deleting the station.

12 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I'd hardly call that a common set up though. Maybe I should have noted that the water lock needs to be 3 tiles deep now whereas before it only needed to be 2 tiles deep.

As I said, most common ranch set ups are currently completely useless. It is therefore I conclude that ranching is almost entirely pointless in current version of mkIII because the set ups are now more difficult to set up so most people won't bother.

With water locks, I think they need to be 2 tiles of the same type AND the pressure needs to be above a certain amount.   like how buildings aren't flooded until a certain amount is there. 

[Oozinator]

2 hours ago, RonEmpire said:

Well  that's your experience,    my experiences have been the opposite. 

That sounds much more friendly.
One thing. I had sometimes a feeling, that ONI clients behave different, in some situation.
Not sure why or what.
Some days back i thought it could be triggered, when debug.txt is added, but it was false (^^).
Could be related to OS or if you ever / never touched sandbox - onscreen - offscreen, dazillion reasons.
But it changes not the feeling, that some of us get in some situations different results, with this precious software pearl.

 

[Saturnus]

2 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

With water locks, I think they need to be 2 tiles of the same type AND the pressure needs to be above a certain amount.   like how buildings aren't flooded until a certain amount is there. 

The 2 tile deep water lock as you show in that image is exactly what my shine bugs escaped from. And yes, there was more than 100kg in each top tile.