FreyaMaluk Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 If guards are supposed to protect as in "watch over in order to protect or control," why in God's sake do Pig Guards in Hamlet burn everything with torches at dusk and night? The Hamlet folk seems to be very smart and their architecture looks refined. Why would they allow Guards to destroy their home? They pay taxes and a clever mayor would ofc reduce the firestarting risk, especially if it's something he can control. Letting Pig Guards burn stuff is really an insult to the Hamlet civilization and its people. A much much cleverer solution would be something like this For balance purposes, I wouldn't like the candle hat to drop or maybe with 1% drop chance to avoid making it OP. Edit. More arguments Causing fires is, in actuality, such a reverse from guards normal behavior and there is strong evidence from that in Hamlet. Every time u craft a fire camp or fuel it during the day, the Hamlet Royal Guards would go immediately and put it out. That means they understand the risk fire brings to the town and resources. That's why it makes no sense they cause fires at night. Another aspect u people forget is that Hamlet towns have standing lanterns by the side of the roads... There is no real justification on why they need a torch at dusk or night anyways. They could keep their Halberts. Ik about baiting them or destroying their towers with the executive hammer. But then, don't these tactics defy their purpose and make them useless? Why something that is clearly contradictory and fixing it to become reliable needs to be considered less an distraction tactic? Specially when the waves become exponentially larger after day 40 and you would need to build way more every time to make them stand? And for the people claiming "they should have drawbacks," here some examples that this argument doesn't really hold when u look at the bigger picture. There is no real downside to Rocklobsters. U don't even need to bait them and they are virtually indestructible... just make the mobs aggro them... or Spiders and spider queens, Beefalo too unless u are in spring or in the first day of the next season but u can wear boof hat, frog rain in spring, u can even use pigs or werepigs. Werepigs attack all creatures in proximity... u just need to lure the dogs to them and keep on running with no real drawbacks except from loosing some pig skins or meat here and there, but that it's also a risk when you have Royal Guards too... so...transfering aggro with no real drawbacks isn't really a new concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalkas Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1566480214 or https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1597913836 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaMaluk Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thalkas said: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1566480214 or https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1597913836 ik dude BUT both the candle hat mod is conflicting with SW worlds and the fire security mod also affects the drops of guards in SW and I would like to have this implementes in the game cuz it doesn't make any sense from a thematic stand point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellimarual Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 To keep us from relying exclusively on pig guards to deal with bats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seero Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Thalkas said: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1566480214 or https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1597913836 Just because a mod exists doesn't make a suggestion any less valid. Maybe that mod is too good and should be added into the game? Edit: Some people also don't like using mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaMaluk Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Averagewx78main said: Just because a mod exists doesn't make a suggestion any less valid. Maybe that mod is too good and should be added into the game? Exactly... In fact, many mods are added into the game already... Fences, Doors, refining sand into bottles in SW, Christmas trees, even the Cauldron skin was inspired by Globalastick's Halloween Croc Pot skin, etc.. all those existed first in the workshop before getting added in to the game. 35 minutes ago, Rellimarual said: To keep us from relying exclusively on pig guards to deal with bats Following that logic then they def should nerf tooth traps, or Beefalos, or any other other kind of method you use... :/ I suggested it because it doesn't make any sense as to why an intelligent civilization allows guards to burn their towns!! 4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said: Letting Pig Guards burn stuff is really an insult to the Hamlet civilization and its people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Reaper Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Aren't Guards morally corrupt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaMaluk Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, MWY said: Aren't Guards morally corrupt? Greedy doesn't necessarily mean destructive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seero Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, MWY said: Aren't Guards morally corrupt? how does that relate to any of this and no i dont think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Reaper Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said: Greedy doesn't necessarily mean destructive 17 minutes ago, Averagewx78main said: how does that relate to any of this and no i dont think so just put a coin inside a fence, all of the guards will ignore everything and go for the coin, be it night or day. (won't attack anything and thus not set it on fire) and the reason they set stuff on fire is quite obvious, they are not reasonable "Guards" and the very point of them setting stuff on fire and in the process the entire town proves that they are incompetent in their jobs both morally and naturally. plus the entire reason you should kill them while they hold matchsticks to defend themselves. (I wonder if they hold torches while you take them to the caves in RoG since you can use the Key to the City in other worlds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szczuku Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Torches should stay. If it was anything else it'd completely ruin the atmosphere of Hamlet. The only thing that devs should fix about this is the distance between the sawahna and guard towers. So that Royal Guards don't with with Weevoles every dusk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Reaper Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Szczuku said: Torches should stay. If it was anything else it'd completely ruin the atmosphere of Hamlet. The only thing that devs should fix about this is the distance between the sawahna and guard towers. So that Royal Guards don't with with Weevoles every dusk. Also instead of having touches, why not Guard Towers light up with Braziers of sort that have certain light distance which will limit the Guards patrol range? Royal will remain fully armed and guard within said Light distance. just like Warrior pigs who have totem poles that are lit on fire and thus keep giving them light for their ever eternal protection (seriously Warrior pigs are the most honest and hard working mobs I've seen in DS) infact you could even light up those Guard Tower Brazier yourself and get light yourself as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Variant Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Szczuku said: Torches should stay. If it was anything else it'd completely ruin the atmosphere of Hamlet. This is pretty much my input, too. Actual guards used torches, I mean, sure they were smarter and fire works differently, but you get the jiff. I just makes more sense to me. However, the only way I can see your suggestion working is if: Pig guards would have more natural health/armor, and it will decrease when they equip their torch hat. Cause ya' know, cork ain't very tough. Otherwise, I like the torches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaMaluk Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Angel_Octoling said: This is pretty much my input, too. Actual guards used torches, I mean, sure they were smarter and fire works differently, but you get the jiff. I just makes more sense to me. However, the only way I can see your suggestion working is if: Pig guards would have more natural health/armor, and it will decrease when they equip their torch hat. Cause ya' know, cork ain't very tough. Otherwise, I like the torches. Guards used to carry lanterns with candles inside not torches lol... , specially inside cities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Reaper Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said: Guards used to carry lanterns with candles inside not torches lol... , specially inside cities that should have been left as it was, but lets say even then they set fire to stuff they whacked it with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Variant Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said: Guards used to carry lanterns with candles inside not torches lol... , specially inside cities Well, torches were still a thing. But hey, now that you've said it, why not add this to the suggestion channel? I think them holding actual lanterns would look way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oCrapaCreeper Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 7 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said: Following that logic then they def should nerf tooth traps, or Beefalos, or any other other kind of method you use... Those all costs time and resources. Tooth traps take lots of time and resources to craft and set up, Beefalo can all die eventually, etc. Those methods are all balanced because there is a risk or resource requirement associated with relying on them. Pig Guards are regular pigs on steroids. High damage, high health due to their log suit, no consequence for them dying as they respawn constantly (and by extension give you good loot), are safe to be around during full moons (unlike regular pigs), and all you have to do is just find them and stand near. There needs to be some downside with that. It's not like the torch thing is even that big of an issue. The builder pigs will usually just rebuild everything within the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Reaper Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, oCrapaCreeper said: Those all costs time and resources. Tooth traps take lots of time and resources to craft and set up, Beefalo can all die eventually, etc. Those methods are all balanced because there is a risk or resource requirement associated with relying on them. Pig Guards are regular pigs on steroids. High damage, high health due to their log suit, no consequence for them dying as they respawn constantly (and by extension give you good loot), are safe to be around during full moons (unlike regular pigs), and all you have to do is just find them and stand near. There needs to be some downside with that. It's not like the torch thing is even that big of an issue. The builder pigs will usually just rebuild everything within the next day. the only trouble is that they will set fire to farms, berry bushes, flowers etc which seems very very sad seeing all that good arranged stuff burn. (which you would eventually steal from) otherwise the entire town will regenerate even if a boss comes thru it or Big Foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaMaluk Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 1:40 AM, oCrapaCreeper said: Those all costs time and resources. Tooth traps take lots of time and resources to craft and set up, Beefalo can all die eventually, etc. Those methods are all balanced because there is a risk or resource requirement associated with relying on them. Pig Guards are regular pigs on steroids. High damage, high health due to their log suit, no consequence for them dying as they respawn constantly (and by extension give you good loot), are safe to be around during full moons (unlike regular pigs), and all you have to do is just find them and stand near. There needs to be some downside with that. It's not like the torch thing is even that big of an issue. The builder pigs will usually just rebuild everything within the next day. It's so weird to me how are u defending such a broken feature in Hamlet.. From a normal wave, a natural Beefalo herd won't die... Their numbers and herd mentality always keep them alive unless u let their numbers go drastically down with a boss attack. Same goes to spider populated areas in spring or winter. Spider warriors and spider queens don't cost u a single investment. Rocklobsters are virtually indestructible and the only thing u need is one rock. In natural Bunnymen towns u can also do the same, just drop your meat in the backpack and wear armor instead. So pls... Your justification doesn't really hold if u really compare it with the many methods u can use to deal with hounds or depth worms where u can just "stand there." Btw, in Hamlet, Royal Guards are probs only semi friendly method to do that. So I don't see why shouldn't we use it from a tactical stand point, specially considering guards are supposed to protect as general rule and Hamlet pigs look fairly intelligent. IMO it's a bit silly to think transferring aggro is not a viable tactic to deal with enemy waves. So pls.. I actually like the idea of using a rudimentary lantern at night instead... That would definitely look way better and much more in tune with the general aesthetic. Also the brazier seems like a good idea too. On 3/30/2019 at 7:03 PM, MWY said: just put a coin inside a fence, all of the guards will ignore everything and go for the coin, be it night or day. (won't attack anything and thus not set it on fire) and the reason they set stuff on fire is quite obvious, they are not reasonable "Guards" and the very point of them setting stuff on fire and in the process the entire town proves that they are incompetent in their jobs both morally and naturally. plus the entire reason you should kill them while they hold matchsticks to defend themselves. (I wonder if they hold torches while you take them to the caves in RoG since you can use the Key to the City in other worlds) BTW, royal guards won't just ignore everything if baited... They with definetely attack back if attacked... You are wrong there. Your "morally incompetent" argument is also kinda weird cuz a guard that likes gold doesn't equal a piromaniac. On the contrary, they are diligent to defend, they are naturally inclined to protect their people. That's why I find their firestarting behavior not in synch with their general disposition as guards. Causing fires is, in actuality, such a reverse from guards normal behavior and there is strong evidence from that in Hamlet. Every time u craft a fire camp or fuel it during the day, the Hamlet Royal Guards would go immediately and put it out. That means they understand the risk fire brings to the town and resources. That's why it makes no sense they themselves do the opposite at dusk and night. Another aspect u people forget is that Hamlet towns have standing lanterns by the side of the roads... There is no real justification on why they need a torch at dusk or night anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oCrapaCreeper Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said: It's so weird to me how are u defending such a broken feature in Hamlet.. Don't fix what ain't broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellimarual Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said: IMO it's a bit silly to think transferring aggro is not a viable tactic to deal with enemy waves. So pls.. It is totally a viable tactic, but since is also the easy way, the game is designed not to make it too much of a crutch. You can totally use beefalo against hound waves, BUT not when they’re in heat unless you have the beef hat. You can totally use guards to kill bats just not at night or dusk. The torches are obviously meant to be the downside, just as having to collect all the materials and spend time on the setup is the downside of tooth traps. What would be the downside to using guards if they got rid of torches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaMaluk Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Rellimarual said: It is totally a viable tactic, but since is also the easy way, the game is designed not to make it too much of a crutch. You can totally use beefalo against hound waves, BUT not when they’re in heat unless you have the beef hat. You can totally use guards to kill bats just not at night or dusk. The torches are obviously meant to be the downside, just as having to collect all the materials and spend time on the setup is the downside of tooth traps. What would be the downside to using guards if they got rid of torches? read this... also @oCrapaCreeper 5 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said: Causing fires is, in actuality, such a reverse from guards normal behavior and there is strong evidence from that in Hamlet. Every time u craft a fire camp or fuel it during the day or set thing on fire, the Hamlet Royal Guards would go immediately and put it out. That means they understand the risk fire brings to the town and resources. That's why it makes no sense they themselves do the opposite at dusk and night. Another aspect u people forget is that Hamlet towns have standing lanterns by the side of the roads... There is no real justification on why they need a torch at dusk or night anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellimarual Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 I’m just talking about the game play. If you take away the current drawback to relying on pig guards, what would you replace it with? It’s obvious why it’s there as part of the game design: to make It harder to rely on them for defense. You have to get bats or whatever away from them until daytime or just stay indoors until day,which is what I do. It’s not hard, but it does require a plan B. If they got rid of the torches, which I’d be fine with, they’d need to add a new challenge to make it less easy to just run to the guards without thinking every time the bats come, so I’m curious what challenge you would like to see it replaced by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornge Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Maybe you could buy this as an upgrade from the mayor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaMaluk Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 I don't rely only on them... u can use Flytraps too.. and you can just run faster to loose aggro and attack them one by one... It's not about defense really, thematically makes no sense: Pigs rn are like this: During the day: Le's put fires out and make sure nothing burns, not even a camp fire At Dawn and Night: I don't care if I burn ****... Do you see the discrepancy? It doesn't make sense... Royal Pigs understand firerisk ... that's why they put them out during the day!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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