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minespatch    51,719
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Mooagain said:

They have those pictures on the wiki

This one is clean compared to the other which has the "klei brand" watermark.

latest?cb=20171116005111

tumblr_n8rikhUwaq1qe2r4mo1_500.png

Edited by minespatch
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ShadowDuelist    3,145

About wortox balance I second some of the suggestions made, and would tweak others to keep him team oriented:

-Healing: I'd make his souls only heal 10 hp to himself or other wortox in range, but 20 to any other non wortox character in range.

-Soul hop: this is just perfect, the most enjoyable skill in the game, please don't touch that.

-Overcharge: He shouldnt gain any healing himself, but the overcharge should heal non wortox players within range. 

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4 Da LOLs    1,886
On 3/31/2019 at 6:14 AM, Warlockadamm said:

Maybe that spider dude... mhmmm but im not sure... 

WELL DO I GOT GOOD NEWS FOR YOU

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minespatch    51,719
19 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

-Overcharge: He shouldnt gain any healing himself, but the overcharge should heal non wortox players within range. 

0NNFUE9.jpg

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On 4/1/2019 at 2:20 PM, Swanky Psammead said:

After ~12 hours of solo Wortox play, I find myself swinging in favor of reducing the heal amount from souls. Not because of PVP, but just because right now it's so much healing that I don't ever need to think about my health, even with reduced healing from food. I am virtually never below 150 out of his 200 max HP, and virtually never below 15/20 max souls. This is even more powerful in a multiplayer server where one soul can heal a team of 6 people for up to 120hp apiece.

Upon further investigation I now recognize that using the aoe heal slightly reduces the heal per player--19 each when healing yourself and 1 other, 18 each when healing yourself and 2 others, etc., so the biggest teamwide heal on a normal server at capacity is actually 90hp per soul (15hp for yourself and 5 others, 6*15=90). This reduces my concerns slightly.

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Mooagain    987
12 minutes ago, Swanky Psammead said:

Upon further investigation I now recognize that using the aoe heal slightly reduces the heal per player--19 each when healing yourself and 1 other, 18 each when healing yourself and 2 others, etc., so the biggest teamwide heal on a normal server at capacity is actually 90hp per soul (15hp for yourself and 5 others, 6*15=90). This reduces my concerns slightly.

Klei is one step ahead of us

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CarlZalph    2,940
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Swanky Psammead said:

Upon further investigation I now recognize that using the aoe heal slightly reduces the heal per player--19 each when healing yourself and 1 other, 18 each when healing yourself and 2 others, etc., so the biggest teamwide heal on a normal server at capacity is actually 90hp per soul (15hp for yourself and 5 others, 6*15=90). This reduces my concerns slightly.

Yeah, and here's the math located in prefabs/wortox_soul_common.lua (HEALING_MED = 20):

local amt = TUNING.HEALING_MED - math.min(8, #targets) + 1

Which for the player count within 8 units, or 2 turfs away, is:

Players | Healing
--------+--------
1       | 20
2       | 19
3       | 18
4       | 17
5       | 16
6       | 15
7       | 14
8       | 13
9+      | 13

The circle packing in circles is an unsolved mathematical problem, but it can be estimated.

For a player their radius is 0.5 units.  So to normalize it, if the player radius is considered to be 1.0 units, then the area of effect also doubles to 16.0 units.  However, the player origin also counts in the entity scanner so increase the AoE by a player radius making it a 16.5 area of effect to account for it.

It is estimated that 227 circles can fit in this radius.

 

Thus, ultimately, 13*227 is 2951 healing for one soul to a max of 59,020 healing for a whole stack of 20 souls.

Though good luck getting 227 players on one server let alone getting them to all coordinated to group up for a heal.

Edited by CarlZalph
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3 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

Thus, ultimately, 13*227 is 2951 healing for one soul to a max of 59,020 healing for a whole stack of 20 souls.

all we need to do is get 227 players on one server, never fight enemies with aoe damage, and we'll be GODS

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Warlockadamm    615
1 minute ago, Mooagain said:

This needs a nerf, it's way to easy to get 227 friends

And i mean its not like there would be any lag of some sort xD nope, lag is a lie !

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4 minutes ago, Warlockadamm said:

And i mean its not like there would be any lag of some sort xD nope, lag is a lie !

Hey, we just got WORTOX!

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Warlockadamm    615
3 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

Hey, we just got WORTOX!

Ooooooh my lord O.o *nosebleed*

Got to finish my university classes first ! Only 4h left. Hyyyyyype

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Misa22    302
2 hours ago, Warlockadamm said:

Ooooooh my lord O.o *nosebleed*

Got to finish my university classes first ! Only 4h left. Hyyyyyype

RUN FOOL!! 

Or else you won't arrive before Klei nerfs it to the ground after all the complains! 

:wilson_ecstatic:

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Warlockadamm    615
8 minutes ago, Misa22 said:

RUN FOOL!! 

Or else you won't arrive before Klei nerfs it to the ground after all the complains! 

:wilson_ecstatic:

*soul's hop to his house*

Running is for mortals ;)

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ShadowDuelist    3,145
4 hours ago, CarlZalph said:

Thus, ultimately, 13*227 is 2951 healing for one soul to a max of 59,020 healing for a whole stack of 20 souls.

Though good luck getting 227 players on one server let alone getting them to all coordinated to group up for a heal.

I really want to see 227 players clumped together for their heals now.

Bonus points to see those 227 player marching forward together to raid some boss...

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IMHO the ideal should be to incentivize Wortox to spend souls more frequently on Soul Hop when playing alone, and on healing when playing with a team.

Mastering Soul Hop's invincibility frame window and using it to save your HP and armor durability should be more cost-effective than simply tanking damage and using your souls to heal yourself. Only when you have allies to increase the effectiveness of each heal should the latter option become particularly tempting.

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Mooagain    987
7 minutes ago, Swanky Psammead said:

IMHO the ideal should be to incentivize Wortox to spend souls more frequently on Soul Hop when playing alone, and on healing when playing with a team.

Mastering Soul Hop's invincibility frame window and using it to save your HP and armor durability should be more cost-effective than simply tanking damage and using your souls to heal yourself. Only when you have allies to increase the effectiveness of each heal should the latter option become particularly tempting.

Mastering the soul hop is really easy I killed deerclops with it first try. Healing is not really that useful when you can telepoof away.

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Canis    3,288

Are we going to get more info on Willow before the update drop? I find myself to be irrationally hyped for her revamp.

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Since we've gone several weeks past release without any balance changes to Wortox, it's probably safe to assume Klei is happy with how he was received and doesn't plan on tweaking him further in the immediate future. That's ok by me, I do still think he is one of the closest to being ideally-balanced of the cast. But I do also want to summarize the points about him that have stuck with me, before this thread falls into obscurity.

My only consistent problem with him has been that I find he is too tanky for his intended role. He is a healer with strong escape/mobility, which in other games with party dynamics would generally be a role occupied by someone fairly squishy; but since he has 200 max health and can accumulate so much capacity for self-healing so quickly, he has a bit too much incentive to mindlessly face-tank like Wolf/WX/Wigfrid. This is not an inherently bad thing, but it does clash a little bit with his identity as a clever trickster (whereas using Soul Hop invincibility frames to kite, or to escape from danger across a chasm, or to act as a back-line healer while the others tank, all synergize perfectly with that identity!)

There've been a lot of suggestions about nerfing his self-healing with souls while preserving the effectiveness of healing on others. Something else that occurred to me recently was that Klei could nerf his interaction with armor (his horns and fur make armor difficult to wear properly, maybe?) which would be an indirect nerf to his self-healing without needing to special-case the heal value of souls on him. Grass suit only reduces 55% of damage, football helmet/log suit/battle helm/beekeeper hat only reduces 75%, thulecite crown/suit only reduces 85%, marble suit/night armor only reduce 90%. Maybe set his max health to the default 150 too?

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Pab10Suarez    756
On 28/3/2019 at 3:03 PM, fimmatek said:

I wonder if other characters got different ghosts too? Or only Wortox?

would be cool if with refresh come the changes of ghosts

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Rhysparadox    13

Will it still be possible to get Vortox through the other skin's? Just like you can get it from the gnome, so you can get it if you buy one of the other two skins?
If not, why?

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