I do not like the idea of ​​a character for a challenge for Wes.

[valeriy20042 11]

 

I don’t like this idea because every character has to represent something. I know that Wes was created specifically for the challenge. This idea is good for DS, but not quite for DST.Each character must carry something useful in return, he has some kind of minus.But Wes is essentially cons because he is a challenge.I like him: his nature, his appearance, pantomimes.

You can instead make the character a special game mode that will lower the stats and complicate the game.

Or a special item that, when used, will also lower stats.

(I do not want to download the mod to change Wes.I do not play on my servers. I play on others. If you take Wes, then no one comes, and if you take Wigfried, everyone will fly. Few people want to play with a character for a challenge. This is the problem of Wes. He is almost always alone.) 

You can completely disagree with me, this is your opinion.

[MarkStein 106]

I think after rework Wes will stay "a challenge character" for lone player but great support/buffer for team. And it can be great. Sanity/hp sharing, buffs, baloons with high-attract for monsters. And i saw in one topic good idea about imaginary tools. Mine/hit/cast by pantomimes, cost of sanity. I think it can work.

[maradyne 4,466]

On 2/26/2019 at 10:51 PM, VexTheHex said:

I want to touch on Wes as well. I know it's meme to ask for nerfs. But as someone who has and does play Wes, I wanted him buffed in some regard. I'm fine with him being hard mode and challenging but he needs to bring some sort of aspect to his team to make people not rage at you for picking him. I think my main concern is he brings nothing to the table while having increased hunger drain. This means to a team, he is actually hurting them by using up more food.

On 2/27/2019 at 8:01 AM, lifetheuniverse said:

Wes is a whole topic unto himself, haha.

Heh...we've been having at this for a good while. Literally since Beta.

Now that Klei is finally acknowledging the characters again, here's hoping. I think the Aggro Manager idea was good, and they even got to do some testing with it in the Forge.

[JimmyJam 1,302]

Naa he was made to be hard mode. Keep him like that!

[maradyne 4,466]

Yea, that's what the Aggro Management idea in the links (quoted) was about. Actually bringing back some of his Single Player difficulty, since it's lessened by other people existing. Simultaneously providing some purpose to his continued existence in a team game. He'd still be an increased-difficulty pick for pro players, but a much better one for flexing helping new, less experienced teams learn the game.
Also silly mime-being-chased-by-every-hound-on-the-map moments.

 

...I actually can't remember the last time that I saw a Wes on a public server, come to think of it.

[ShadowDuelist 4,176]

10 minutes ago, lifetheuniverse said:

I actually can't remember the last time that I saw a Wes on a public server, come to think of it.

Most wes players are either unsuspecting day one players that randomly picked the funniest looking character, or hardcore pro player that will raid the ruins and kill dragonfly before the rest of the team even gets a base going. Those are the typical Wes profiles I see around, black and white all the way.

Wes should probably add perks that benefit  the team but do not benefit himself, so everyone loves having a wes nearby but the wes player just keeps being miserable as it is now.

EG: having more aggro like on the forge, having a sanity aura that affect other players but not himself, creating new baloon items everyone can use except him, etc.

[4 Da LOLs 2,233]

I would like for them to have downsides that don't just make them eat more

i want them to still be allowed in public play because all they really do is eat out your food

like remove the extra hunger loss and he will already a million times more welcome in random servers

add a sanity aura when he pantomimes would make him an asset to any noob team for newbs always have sanity trouble

add maybe that extra agro taken and that would be perfect 

[Misa22 321]

I like him in vanilla, because the fights are way easier and quicker than in DST, but since the latter is team-based, i feel like he is "a bad team player". 

He doesn't really add anything to a team, but then again, i like the idea of a challenge character... 

I don't know, i am kinda divided about the idea of changing Wes: he needs a change, but he may "not be WES" if that change comes (if that makes any sense lol). 

[axxel 1,015]

Well each character can provide some fighting power but I agree to @4 Da LOLs argument that a Wes can become a burden on public servers.

[FuffledBeeQueen 3,236]

This is the thing, some people are like (which I am one of):

Wes is kinda meh, if they would change his character traits to be more fun to play instead of just be this bland wilson with higher hunger rate, he'd be more cool!
- Really, I just see Wes as a slightly worse Wilson, there is literally barely any chalenge behind him.

And there are people that are like:

NO, WeS hAS to STaY aS a CHellAnglE cHarKtEr bcZ WeS haS to SUck, maKE hiM WorSE
- Can't relate to it, because just making a character worse ruins the character, literally look at Willow, before the rework (which hopefully will make her better, future me, please report to me sooner about this) nobody plays her unless they are griefing

[minespatch 60,571]

Here's the thing we know about Wes during the events:

Easy to kill but fast to run.

Has power of money.

Ah yes, Aggro as well.

They should probably focus on his speed as a character and make his hp lower to represent the balance?

[FuffledBeeQueen 3,236]

1 minute ago, minespatch said:

Here's the thing we know about Wes during the events:

Easy to kill but fast to run.

Has power of money.

 

They should probably focus on his speed as a character and make his hp lower to represent the balance?

Isn't that literally every mod character ever, fast but weak

[minespatch 60,571]

2 minutes ago, FuffledBeeQueen said:

Isn't that literally every mod character ever, fast but weak

Then I'm a normie.

[maradyne 4,466]

I think his existing identity as a punching bag that everything wants to wipe from existence is easy enough to design mechanics around, haha.

[TurtleKitty 1,161]

Mime Powers! Mime Mining, Mime Digging, Mime Fishing! 
M I M E 

[seffard 145]

4 hours ago, FuffledBeeQueen said:

NO, WeS hAS to STaY aS a CHellAnglE cHarKtEr bcZ WeS haS to SUck, maKE hiM WorSE

lol

4 hours ago, FuffledBeeQueen said:

- Can't relate to it, because just making a character worse ruins the character, literally look at Willow, before the rework (which hopefully will make her better, future me, please report to me sooner about this) nobody plays her unless they are griefing

Please, dont be mean. I think she's much more fun to play than Wilson and Im not a troll.

[RogueGamer12 1,067]

I quite like the ideas mentioned that'll grant him team based abilities while still making him hard to play, every character in DST should bring something to the group.

 

And yes, getting rid him getting more hungry quicker is something i'll like to see.

[Theukon-dos 2,174]

I don't think that Wes should become the Agro tank, partially because he's already the second squishiest character, so the last thing he needs is an army of monsters going after his rear at all times, but also because I think that role would be better suited for Wigfrid, both mechanically and thematically (I went into more detail  here, but TL;DR Giving Wigfrid the agro mechanics would Let her step out of Wolfgang's shadow, give a reason to play as her when not crafting helmets, and Give her a supporting role while keeping her identity as a fighter)

 

As for what Wes could do without Making him any easier, I'm not to sure. One option could be being able to use other character's items, such as Wicker's books, Lucy, and Willow's lighter. The codex umbra would be a bit of a stretch, though doing this could give Wes a good bit of flexibility and team play while not affecting him solo.

[KoreanWaffles 3,035]

The problem with Wes is that he isn't a challenging character in a meaningful way. Picking Wes doesn't change the way you play at all. If you look at his perks, he's basically a reverse stat stick.

0.75x damage multiplier?
Just hit the mob a few more times. Many mobs follow a predictable kiting pattern, so you're not really losing more hp, just spending more time in combat, and using a bit more weapon durability. If you look at Wendy, she has Abigail which changes the way you approach combat. Although she has a 0.75x damage multiplier, you can decimate groups of mobs such as bees and splumonkeys.

1.25x hunger drain?
Eat 1.25x as much food. If you're experienced, you can feed an entire server with meat, honey, or really any sort of farm. Wigfrid on the other hand, has a hunger related perk that impacts her gameplay. You can only eat meat, which means you can't enjoy the benefits of foods such as mushrooms, honey, and cactus flesh. Her perks encourage players to enter combat, which in turn grants meat, which ties nicely into her niche.

0.75x normal max sanity?
Max sanity is pretty irrelevant, unless it's abnormally low like Webber, or abnormally high like a fully upgraded WX78. Since sanity thresholds are percentage based, having lower max sanity means it's easier to slip in and out of insanity threshold, and having higher sanity means it's easier to stay within sanity thresholds, so you can argue that lower max sanity can be beneficial.

0.75x normal max hp?
Doesn't matter if you don't get hit, and if you do, it's not like you can be 1 shot like Maxwell, so you can just heal up. It doesn't really matter how much max hp you have unless it's not dangerously low like Maxwell. What does matter is damage absorption since it affects your effective healing. Wigfrid, for example, is arguably a better tank than a fully upgraded WX78, since although WX78 has 2x the max hp as Wigfrid, Wigfrid has 33% higher effective healing thanks to her innate 25% armor (which, by the way, applies to all sources of damage including food such as monster meat, and environmental factors such as freezing and overheating). This also means that WX78 actually has 1.5x the effective health of Wigfrid. If Wes had 150 max hp, but took 25% more damage from all sources, he would be much more dangerous to play since his effective healing goes down, but that change wouldn't fix the problem of Wes being a grindy reverse stat stick. Look at Woodworm for example. His no healing from food perk changes his gameplay in a meaningful way. You can't just eat pierogis and dragon pies all the time as other characters, including Wes, do.

If Wes receives a revamp, I would like to see changes that change his gameplay in a more meaningful way, or add onto his identity as a mime or meme character.

[reverentsatyr 2,378]

I think wes should remain a challenge character. But he could boost others through sacrificing.

Like doing mime act to give hunger or health or sanity while his own stats go down. He would remain challenging for the person playing him, but can still contribute to the team instead of being useless.

[x0VERSUS1y 3,544]

What if... once per game Wes can eat his Pile o' Balloons and become a god (well, more than he already is atm, lets call it UberGod) invulnerable, omnipotent, and with mega-punching powers - for 5 minutes?! Then POP like a balloon: perma-dead!

[HeatAndRun 667]

and it's almost time to.. 'nah Wes needs nerf' comment to come out!

[reverentsatyr 2,378]

 

1 hour ago, HeatAndRun said:

and it's almost time to.. 'nah Wes needs nerf' comment to come out!

nah Wes needs nerf

[Casm 95]

I think there's been a lot of valid points made throughout the thread. I agree that Wes as it stands isn't even a 'difficult' character in any meaningful or relevant way. I also agree that when it comes to DST especially, a 'challenge' character is somewhat out of place for a multiplayer oriented version of the game. I also see valid arguments for both making him a viable teammate as well as making him an actual challenging character. This upcoming character rework is the best opportunity for Klei to take Wes in either of those directions and I'm very much looking forward for what they have in store for him.

[Viktor234 2,469]

If you pick Wendy instead of Wes, you'll get the same abilities as Wes but also:

• Improved Balloons
  • Summoning Balloons costs only 5 Sanity while Summoning Abigail costs 50 Sanity and you can summon only one Abigail at once
  • Balloons and Abigail deal AoE damage
  • Damage by Abigail is dealt per second, not per Balloon
  • Abigail deals same damage as 2 Balloons during day, 4 Balloons during dawn and 8 Balloons during night
  • Abigail doesn't cause any Friendly Fire
• Better statistics
  • 33% increased max. Health, Hunger, Sanity
• No increased hunger drain
  • You're not gathering food alone in DST and eating all the food gathered from the others isn't nice at all
• 25% reduced sanity drain
  • More Sanity for Balloons Abigail

Right now Wes is just Wendy 0.5 - Weaker & consumes more food

I agree that Wes needs a complete rework to make him more different from Wendy.
My suggestion: No increased hunger drain; +25% damage taken instead of -25% damage dealt; more aggro from mobs like in The Forge
I disagree with giving him the miming tools ability because that's already Woodie's ability.