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tzionut    232

I will definitively test this when i am home. Not for power because my 11 nat. gas generators make enough to power my entire base. 

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Saturnus    2,710
54 minutes ago, tzionut said:

I will definitively test this when i am home. Not for power because my 11 nat. gas generators make enough to power my entire base. 

I also actually count on the water generated by my NGGs so they're not stopping for any reason.

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Soulwind    204

This is clearly a bug, but wow is it a spectacular one.  Great job on finding it.  That particular layout is something I'd never have tried. 

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DaveSatx    83
8 hours ago, mathmanican said:

While playing around with @Mullematsch questions yesterday on "Big Boy Power System Help," I stumbled on a way to create infinite power. A brief search in the forum bug reports did not reveal anything (I'll post a bug report after a discussion). Let's start with pictures.

 

Crazy?  Yep.  Anyone know if this has been seen before?  I know other bug reports are out there involving transformers pushing more power than they are supposed to push, but I don't recall them magically creating the power when trying to draw from an empty battery. Who needs infinte power from turbines anymore. Just use transformers and batteries. Haha.  Have fun tinkering.

amazing.   I know it may seem silly but please create a bug report to ensure a developer sees this rather than just eventually a community manager.

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mathmanican    888

Thanks all for your comments. The promised bug report is now in. Do they use ratings/comments on bugs to decide which bugs to kill first? If so, please comment/rate like mad so they see this one quickly.  I really hope it dies by the next update. Feel free to continue any/all discussion on this bug report instead of here. 

 

 

Edited by mathmanican
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mathmanican    888
6 hours ago, tzionut said:

I will definitively test this when i am home. Not for power because my 11 nat. gas generators make enough to power my entire base.

 

5 hours ago, Saturnus said:

I also actually count on the water generated by my NGGs so they're not stopping for any reason.

You can run them without connecting them to anything. :)  Just think of them as matter converters, rather than power stations. :) 

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tzionut    232

Thank you  @mathmanican this is the nicest bug i ever tested :) Free power for anyone. No dupe needed. This bug is the nicest. After it was the bug where you can go in space at any distance when you change the destination after launch . Keep the good work.

 3.thumb.jpg.03b857d9623d3b9a319e867ce888ec4d.jpg

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Saturnus    2,710
46 minutes ago, tzionut said:

Thank you  @mathmanican this is the nicest bug i ever tested :) Free power for anyone. No dupe needed. This bug is the nicest. After it was the bug where you can go in space at any distance when you change the destination after launch . Keep the good work.

Don't forget the Borg Cube. :D

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tzionut    232

I never used the borg cube. I didn't like it. I use wheeze for cooling. More inefficient but doable. 

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Saturnus    2,710
1 hour ago, tzionut said:

I never used the borg cube. I didn't like it. I use wheeze for cooling. More inefficient but doable. 

I still don't use cheat carrots at all.

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mathmanican    888
1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

Don't forget the Borg Cube.

The power generated with this new bug is nothing in comparison with the Borg Cube.  The Borg Cube still stands as the most ridiculous energy converter of all time (after debug and sandbox mode, of course). :) 

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Saturnus    2,710
19 minutes ago, R9MX4 said:

1.thumb.png.c1e862e7d2afe1cbba24eb17a08187f5.pngThis one also works. Maybe a  different theory.

I think it's the same old NOT gate + switch bug. I'll make a test later.

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6Havok9    53

This deserves a place in my museum of evil things and mad scientists, next to the borg cube. Dupes shall never forget. Even if some of them say that those are just legends, stories to scare the dupelings. (?)

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mathmanican    888
8 hours ago, R9MX4 said:

This one also works. Maybe a  different theory

 

8 hours ago, Saturnus said:

I think it's the same old NOT gate + switch bug. I'll make a test later.

I was completely guessing as to why it works.  I did however notice that if I delete the empty battery in my original build, the bug disappears. I've built this thing now in several ways, and a key bit is the dead battery.  I'll play with it more today and post several alternatives. Hopefully together we can track down the problem. 

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mathmanican    888

Here's the lastest update.

  1. You don't actually need transformers in pairs.  Current minimum build is shown below, which will barely keep 4 fridges continuously powered.
    Spoiler

    5c71cdedaa9ac_Screenshotfrom2019-02-2315-48-29.png.dae10ade394880e6099c26f55042d198.png


     
  2. Both batteries in the smart switch must be smart (even the non-controller battery).
  3. The dead battery can be smart, big, or tiny. Doesn't matter. The result is the same.
  4. Extra batteries amplify the effect, though it appears you cannot exceed the transformer output rating

In the picture below, I ran several tests.  With 1 battery, you can reliably power 16 fridges (the tiles mark 8 fridges). With 2 dead batteries, you can power 21 (almost 22 - just shy of it). With 3 dead batteries, you can power 24 fridges.  With 8 dead batteries, you can power 29. I'll be building tiny batteries for this exploit from now on.

5c71c8fe17d23_Screenshotfrom2019-02-2315-27-32.thumb.png.2545a049a4e22e29d92edf42bc103b2c.png

I'm guessing that as I increase the battery count, I'll approach powering 33 fridges (120*33 = 3960).  Might take a few hundred batteries to get this close. Hmm.. Give me a sec. Ok, so 59 batteries easily powers 32 fridges, but will not keep up with 33. With 96 fridges, it's still barely not enough. 

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Crapig    16

circuit1.thumb.jpg.0c4e42ccb6e2439f208a9f98b3404e90.jpg

There are two batteries in both flickering circuit patterns created by the switch.
But I don't know why only the second empty(dead) battery can improve the power.

Battery2.gif.3d013cb78a3e1193a0cbcf9c34a6dde1.gif

Why can only second empty(dead) battery do the role of 3rd(or 4th) Duplicant's manual generator?

RunDrum01.thumb.gif.5b58088273118367775c78dea9409e39.gif

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mathmanican    888
1 hour ago, Crapig said:

But I don't know why only the second empty(dead) battery can improve the power.

That's precisely why I definitely call this a bug, not an exploit of game mechanics. It was posted in the new release forum, as well as in the bug tracker, so I hope the devs see and fix it soon. I'm glad you had fun playing with this. It's quite wonky.  Power is no longer an issue though. 

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mathmanican    888
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, nakomaru said:

If I understand how the bug works, it should be in fact 17.2 kW surplus but I haven't needed to confirm.

Well..., I'd go with 17.1428571428571428571428571...kW (a little less), minus the drain from the smart batteries (I'll neglect it - or just count it towards the power drain). :)  Sounds like you understand the bug the same way I do, and this matches with my experiments. Basically, the bug just has transformers draw equal amounts of power from every battery type (dead or alive), provided at least one battery has stored power. 

For those who want the formula, here's how we got this 17.2kW.

  • At all times, the 5 transformers draw power from 7 batteries (6 dead tiny batteries and 1 smart battery). 
  • Of the drawn power (20kW), one battery needs to be filled at all times (assuming you are drawing max power), so 1/7 of the drawn power is required to refill the draining battery.
  • This leaves 6/7 of the 20kW (so 6/7*20=17.14kW) as usable power.
  • You could spike above this total in small bursts, without any problem, provided your average was under 17.14 kW.  As long as your battery never actually empties, it will replenish itself. For this reason, I set my smart batteries at 80/50 instead of 80/20, just to deal with potential spikes in power usage, and add an extra smart battery on the charging side to deal with larger loads.
  • If you only have 1 dead battery, then you have a 10kW power plant.  If you have 2 dead batteries, then you have  2/3*20 = 13.333kW power plant.  With 3 dead batteries you get 3/4 *20 = 15kW power plant.  With 9 dead batteries you get a 9/10*20=18kW power plant, etc. 

@nakomaru, if you want to abuse this even more, then you can submerge the batteries in tiny amounts of liquid (a layer of 35-70g polluted water, topped by a layer of 35-75g water - basically anything under 1500g will trigger this bug though the smaller the better - vacuum on one layer of liquid works too, but not all vacuum), and completely neglect heat created by the batteries and transformer. Of course, with a homemade geyser constantly supplying 3C water, heat management can be ignored. I use this on my kilns to keep ceramic production at 100% uptime, never needing to worry about overheating.

Here's more info.

 

Edited by mathmanican
Added the last bullet about modifying this.
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