State of Dirt Balance

[biopon]

7 minutes ago, avc15 said:

I don't understand, you're condensing sour gas to make NG, so you can produce enough CO2?

No. But sour gas is by far:

- The most power

- The most water (more than what goes in the wells)

It's also enough CO2 to do whatever you want with it. It's just incredibly good, and also hard to do well, which is part of the fun. If you just want CO2 then burning petrol is probably better, but that process is not water positive, nor does it generate too much power. 

 

[avc15]

2 minutes ago, biopon said:

If you just want CO2 then burning petrol is probably better, but that process is not water positive, nor does it generate too much power. 

 

Petroleum generation is extremely water positive as long as you are baking your crude directly into petroleum.

It's only a water deficit if you use the game-supplied petroleum generator.

Do you want the maths?

I know sour gas has quite a lot of energy content but I also haven't analyzed the cooling requirement in comparison. I just always get enough power from petroleum and it also produces extra water.

[biopon]

3 minutes ago, avc15 said:

Do you want the maths?

I can do basic arithmetic when I don't go by badly remembered half-truths.

3 minutes ago, avc15 said:

extremely water positive

25% water on top of what goes into the wells is hardly extreme.  The sour gas process gives you 66%, what would you call that?

The latter is also 19+ KW power per well, and not 3.3 that you get with the petroleum generators. (Ok maybe ~17 KW once you account for all the equipment needed to run it.) It's less CO2, but I think the extra everything else more than makes up for it.

 

[avc15]

2 minutes ago, biopon said:

I can do basic arithmetic when I don't go by badly remembered half-truths.

Well this may have just gone from a friendly exchange to a non-friendly exchange  

Though, some bit of sarcasm is lost on the internet. Can't tell if self-deprecating, or ... 

I'm back to my own nowhere, then.

[biopon]

Just now, avc15 said:

self-deprecating

Was meant to be that. 

[Lifegrow]

You seem to have overlooked one crucial detail here - outputs from generators can only be relied upon if you're using the ridiculous power output you're referring to.

66.6 natural gas gens that are idle give zero output, see my point? Unless of course you're happy to piss away resources in the quest for polluted water, which let's face it, would be pretty inept.

Sometimes the raw maths are pretty useless in an actual running base.

[biopon]

2 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

piss away resources

I run them constantly. They actually produce resources when they run. The "pissing away" would be to not run them around the clock. Should I stockpile the crude instead? I have some leftover from the process that I use to fuel jetsuits and make supercoolant; I don't see the point for it beyond that.

[avc15]

on a different tangent, can one just do space expeditions to get dirt? Is it viable?

 

[biopon]

1 minute ago, avc15 said:

space expeditions to get dirt

My terrestrial is at 90k, so a 27-day trip. I'd get about 1 ton of dirt and 1 ton of algae per 2-bay rocket. The algae is either 1 ton of dirt or 500kg, depending on how fancy you get with the cooking process. So let's say 2 tons, that's 123g/sec over 27 cycles. You need about 1500kg of fuel to get that far, so it costs 92g/s H2 over 27 cycles, or 821g/s water. 

You're probably better of grabbing algae and slime from organic masses that are closer, and then cooking both the fancy way. (I have a bug report in on that, but who knows if they ever get around to addressing it.) That's also 2 tons of dirt, in probably half the time, and roughly the same fuel per second. So let's say about 100 kilos of dirt per cycle, enough for 20 plants for about 500 kilos of water in fuel. It's not terrible, but unless you cook dirt using what's likely a bug, your output is just half that.

[lee1026]

I dry walled my rocket silos. By aggressively capturing the rocket exhaust on take off and landing, I get about a ton and a half of co2 per launch. (Estimate, not measured) 

 

Scrubbed and sieved, that nets somewhere on the order of 200 kilos of dirt. My standard missions are 9 days, so each rocket will yield 20 kg per cycle. Not counting the actual rocket payload, 4 rockets will keep you going. If you head for the organic mass, each launch will get you algae and slime, which can be converted to dirt. 

[cylandme]

4 hours ago, biopon said:

当我没有被记不起来的半真半假时，我可以做基本的算术。

进入井中的25％的水几乎不是极端的。 酸性气体过程给你66％，你会称之为什么？

后者每口井的功率也超过19千瓦，而不是石油发电机的3.3倍。（一旦你考虑到运行它所需的所有设备，也许~17 KW。）它减少了二氧化碳排放，但我认为额外的一切  都比弥补它更多。

 

Entropy and pump

[cpy]

Astronauts requiring high level food? You're playing it wrong!

Mine do not eat a damn thing.

[chemie]

6 hours ago, cpy said:

Astronauts requiring high level food? You're playing it wrong!

Mine do not eat a damn thing.

Astronauts enter the rocket and never come out again

[6Havok9]

3 hours ago, cpy said:

Astronauts requiring high level food? You're playing it wrong!

Mine do not eat a damn thing.

That's why I would really like a "recovery period until next mission" mechanic. A cooldown on the astronaut. With some debuffs maybe, depending on journey length and harshness.

Yes. I want it.

[Exoros]

I want pepper bread to be as easy to make as BBQ.
I don't see why making pepper bread must be harder than BBQ.

[avc15]

21 minutes ago, Exoros said:

I want pepper bread to be as easy to make as BBQ.
I don't see why making pepper bread must be harder than BBQ.

bbq has a debuff, and while at high athletics a -4 penalty doesn't change much, it's still a debuff.

[Xuhybrid]

I always wondered one thing. Why does it consume only dirt? Why not consume fertilizer too?

[Grimgaw]

28 minutes ago, Xuhybrid said:

I always wondered one thing. Why does it consume only dirt? Why not consume fertilizer too?

If you're farming wheat correctly, it does.

[Miravlix]

I have six wheat farms and whatever wild farms exist in non-melted ice biomes. (I don't put in much effort in keeping the ice biomes, but I don't have it as a goal to clean mine the asteroid, so some exist forever.)

 

I produce Berry Sludge, Stuffed Berries, BBQ and Bread for dupes to eat, the Berry Sludge fridge is full, so I guess I'm producing enough of the other 3 to feed the 35 dupes.

 

I produce a small amount of Omelette (I try to avoid creating raw eggs, but incubating them all is to much dupe work), Pickled Meal (8 mealwood plants that uses dirt) and Fried Mushroom (Wild only) that I feed to hatches, I'm not sure how much of it turn into rot piles, but I do regularly get the notice about something rotted.

 

I  have half of the CO2 going to slicksters and the other half to scrubbers (To create PW), I have a really bad polluted PW geyser that also contributes some PW, the rest comes from sink/toilets/showers. (Don't forget to add a few sinks on travel roads, this will convert quite a bit more as dupes constantly get dirty running around.)

 

I have an unused sludge geyser and 26 Pincha plants that eat some of the PW.

 

I'm not cooking or doing anything beyond compost to create dirt, I create fertilizer for Pincha and bristle farms, none of the other farms is getting fertilized.

 

Don't forget to compost seeds every 300 cycles or so.

[JohnFrancis]

I don't think "Dirt balance" is the right question. Is BBQ to powerful compared to all the other foods? Wild pepper plants are plentiful and 2 peppers can keep one dupe in BBQ (assuming you have the meat). Pepper bread requires 10 wild wheat and 2 pepper plants in comparsion. Meat is not that hard to harvest wild in reasonable quantities and with ranching and kill rooms you can support all your dupes. In the games current state the best foods are BBQ, Omelets and Fried Mushrooms due to the low to nothing water requirements.

Can anyone come up with any decent reason for why a player should use any of the other foods? From a cost benefit perspective I just can't see it.

 

[chemie]

1 hour ago, JohnFrancis said:

I don't think "Dirt balance" is the right question. Is BBQ to powerful compared to all the other foods? Wild pepper plants are plentiful and 2 peppers can keep one dupe in BBQ (assuming you have the meat). Pepper bread requires 10 wild wheat and 2 pepper plants in comparsion. Meat is not that hard to harvest wild in reasonable quantities and with ranching and kill rooms you can support all your dupes. In the games current state the best foods are BBQ, Omelets and Fried Mushrooms due to the low to nothing water requirements.

Can anyone come up with any decent reason for why a player should use any of the other foods? From a cost benefit perspective I just can't see it.

 

because, some of us demand 50 morale dups.  It is just about "it being there" more than it is needed.

I wonder if Klei made a conscious decision to make dirt very scarce just to make it complicated to get some? 

[Grimgaw]

28 minutes ago, chemie said:

I wonder if Klei made a conscious decision to make dirt very scarce just to make it complicated to get some? 

They made conscious decision about making it hard to make Natural Gas form Fertilizer Makers, and I don't think they thought trough how it would impact rest of the game.

Here's to hoping that next patch(es) will be Balance ones.

[chemie]

1 minute ago, Grimgaw said:

They made conscious decision about making it hard to make Natural Gas form Fertilizer Makers, and I don't think they thought trough how it would impact rest of the game.

Here's to hoping that next patch(es) will be Balance ones.

NG change was needed.  I agree dirt was unintended consequence 

[Neotuck]

Just now, chemie said:

NG change was needed.

I agree, the fertilizer NG was too OP

[gredalusiam]

Hmm I haven't gotten that late in the game yet. 20 dupes sounds like a lot though! I've yet to play very far with more than 12 dupes though, so maybe it helps speed things up a lot and it's worth the resource strain?