Pop Guy

Strange Ideas to improve some poorly exploited characters.

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Pop Guy    106

 

Here's how I would make some Do not Starve characters more useful and why:

 

Wilson, the one who can survive everything: His beard is really something magnificent! Warm and confortable in winter, cool and breathable in summer, able to filter 70% of rainwater and hard enough to prevent the fog from annoying, as well as slow down the pollen and decrease sneezing per minute. With his beard Wilson can withstand any adversity!

(Designed for players who have difficulty surviving the various seasons)

 

Willow, an inextinguishable fire that devours it internally: Immune to the flames, is pathologically attracted by the flames, so as to have a brain's regeneration of +20 per minute in front of a fire. With 1 torch + 1 papyrus you can turn every weapon in the game into a variant with the same characteristics but that inflicts fire on enemies! It also deals 33% more damage to the enemies that burn, a real psychopath!

(Designed for players who find it difficult to remain sane and have fun watching the game world burn)

 

Wendy, she is not dead what she can live forever, and in strange eons even death can die: Her sister Abigail is an apocalyptic cosmic presence: 1200 of life, 5 of regeneration per second when in "hostile" mode and 10 when in "peaceful" mode, 20 of day damage, 40 at sunset and 80 at night, as well as total control over the behavior of the sister, to whom she can say whether to follow her, leave, attack or make the pole.

(Designed for particularly warmongers who have the desire to kill everything in front of them)

 

Wes, crazy among the crazy: at the cost of fifteen of sanity, Wes can "mimic" any prototype equipment and "use" it for a minute, before it disappears. Including sources of lights, clothes, magical items ... careful not to fall asleep with the imaginary flute that holds in your hands!

(Designed to give Wes the uniqueness and madness it deserves)

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Pop Guy    106
3 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

wilson should be able to use his beard as an alternative to rope in crafting recipes

 

I always thought that secretly Wilson is an external God of Lovecraft.

"It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as WILSON, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign..."

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Pop Guy    106

Sorry, I think this is a forum on a video game, not an elite of intellectuals who discuss the world's greatest systems, get off the pedestal, friend ;)

Edited by Pop Guy
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__IvoCZE__    1,931
10 minutes ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Oh look: exactly what the forums were in need of right now - more manure postings! :abnormal:

Even though I hate you I gotta admit.

Wes is supposed to be weak OP and currently Buffs are a thing in making and I surely don't wanna see Wendy become the next Wicker.

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x0VERSUS1y    1,741
1 hour ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

Even though I hate you I gotta admit.

Awww, how cute! Much love to you too lil one! :butterfly:

 

1 hour ago, Pop Guy said:

I LIKE TRAINS!

Ofc you can like trains and tell us how much you'd love trans-dimensional trains. Yet that doesn't make it less of a power fantasy and a pretty healthy manure posting :mrgreen:

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Tapirus    774

Well, I seen several threads talking about characters's perks and possible changes, but I think Klei have those new changes already (being tested by themselves in this moment), so, it's just of matter of time for see them all.

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__IvoCZE__    1,931
2 hours ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Awww, how cute! Much love to you too lil one! :butterfly:

 

Ofc you can like trains and tell us how much you'd love trans-dimensional trains. Yet that doesn't make it less of a power fantasy and a pretty healthy manure posting :mrgreen:

Plottwist: you are manure posting.

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EuedeAdodooedoe    1,176

Like the suggestion for Wilson here tbh.

If we're talking char reworks, some basic buffs and nerfs I definitely think should be in the game:

WX-78's spark damage from rain should the bigger his wetness meter value is, can see my mod for how to implement that.

Wickerbottom should get a higher penalty for stale and spoiled foods and tentacle book should only be readable on marsh turf, particularly to further prevent some tentacle-griefing in bases/at portal

Wolfgang should simply have less sanity, and I'm thinking 100. A strong stupid man shouldn't have a strong brain. Sanity loss could be 50% higher from monsters and the sorts as well, 10% means nothing.

Willow should have complete fire immunity, lighter should be one with infinite fuel (not craftable), bernie should only follow her so as to make her a team player (and not just have her craft bears all over while making the character herself redundant after) and berny should deal damage back to shadow creatures at the same value they deal to him. EDIT: The last lighter that was held by a Willow player should be visible to them on the map at all times, even if held by another player, and if any non-Willow player exits with it, it will drop from their inventory, unless they are a Willow and it's the only lighter they had (can only exit with one lighter). In that case, the other Willow player would get a different lighter assigned visible to them.

I would also suggest complete overheating immunity, but some people would think that's OP. Would make her one of the best characters in the game with all these changes. As for drawbacks, she should take more damage from cold (may be even take damage when frozen/unfrozen) and still have low sanity. Again, see my mod for these changes in action. Could also give her the ability to light herself on fire, but that has a lot of grief potential.

EDIT: Guys, I do know that having marsh turf to have tentacle book's effect be applied on would not do much, but it would further prevent it. Any new wicker that starts digging up good turf and placing marsh in base would be instantly recognised as a tentacle griefer. It's to FURTHER prevent it, not make it obsolete. It's easier to just read tentacle book at a base, than to go to a base, craft the book, then travel all the way back to portal anyway, have had bases griefed with tentacles way more than portals in my experience.

Edited by EuedeAdodooedoe
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Sinister_Fang    7,182
15 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 tentacle book should only be readable on marsh turf, particularly to further prevent some tentacle-griefing in bases/at portal

*Puts marsh turf under the portal/in base* *Uses On Tentacles*

Anti-griefing measure defeated.

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Superlucas1231    103
On 2/17/2019 at 9:15 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 tentacle book should only be readable on marsh turf, particularly to further prevent some tentacle-griefing in bases/at portal

Wouldn't it just be a better idea to make the server auto kill tentacles near spawn?

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Field Field    2,026
On 2/17/2019 at 9:15 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Wickerbottom should get a higher penalty for stale and spoiled foods and tentacle book should only be readable on marsh turf, particularly to further prevent some tentacle-griefing in bases/at portal

You've finally done it. You've solved griefing.

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Angel_Octoling    705
2 hours ago, superlucas1231 said:

Wouldn't it just be a better idea to make the server auto kill tentacles near spawn?

This.

Among with simply disallowing Tentacles to spawn there or even not allowing Wicker to read nearby.

The Radius has to be large, if it's small, they'll just surround the radius.

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ShadowDuelist    1,906
On 2/17/2019 at 11:15 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Wickerbottom should get a higher penalty for stale and spoiled foods and tentacle book should only be readable on marsh turf, particularly to further prevent some tentacle-griefing in bases/at portal

As mentioned above by @Sinister_Fang this won't work.

2 hours ago, superlucas1231 said:

Wouldn't it just be a better idea to make the server auto kill tentacles near spawn?

This would work. There will always be griefing near spawn in one way or another, but this would at least remove the tentacles option.

A lot of people have mentioned that Wickerbottom's perks would get balanced down if you needed the sanity cost before casting a book. I'd even extend that as a game mechanic, to all magic casting: if you don't have the sanity cost for it, you can't cast it. Would tone down wickerbottom's book spam or at least it would require some extra planning and costs. This would also prevent for everyone the emergency dwarf star spam, or telepoofing away if you already are at 0 sanity.
 

On 2/17/2019 at 11:15 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Wolfgang should simply have less sanity, and I'm thinking 100. A strong stupid man shouldn't have a strong brain. Sanity loss could be 50% higher from monsters and the sorts as well, 10% means nothing.

I like this. It wont make him more interesting, but it would balance him down if they add something else when its his rebalance turn.
 

On 2/17/2019 at 11:15 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Willow should have complete fire immunity, lighter should be one with infinite fuel (not craftable), bernie should only follow her so as to make her a team player (and not just have her craft bears all over while making the character herself redundant after) and berny should deal damage back to shadow creatures at the same value they deal to him.

I agree with this except for "lighter should be one with infinite fuel (not craftable)". If you die for a moment or just drop your stuff, and someone takes your lighter, it would mean that there is no way for you to get it back. The same goes if you loose it. If you check the main items of all the other characters they are either craftable or re-obtainable somehow to prevent this. I have had my codex umbra book used as fuel by other players, to name something. And I don't think the magic "poofing in her hands" mechanic would work, as this is already a Lucy thing.

Her lighter to be useful should remain craftable, provide the same light radius as a torch (currently it sucks, in singleplayer it was useful because it was permanent, but here nobody would pick it over a torch or a lamp), allow anyone to cook on it, and perhaps be infinite only when Willow uses it, keeping it lit with the power of her will. So in practice It will not degrade when she uses it, even if at 1%. If anyone else different than a Willow uses it, it will degrade and eventually break. This would make the lighter a "much better torch" just like Wigfrids helmets are better football helmets, and would probably make it an interesting thing to have for other players, specially with the cooking part.

Edited by ShadowDuelist
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Pop Guy    106

 

In my opinion a character should lead players to live different experiences in a game. The advantages you give Willow make it useful, but it's like a Wilson with an endless torch and that you do not have to worry about fire, it does not change the way you experience the game.

I think that Willow should lead the player to actively look for the fire, to "live it", to use it to heal, kill and do things otherwise impossible for the other characters. So that playing Willow would be a unique experience different from all the others.

For example, as Webber (conceptually one of the best characters) that radically changes the way to build a base (close to spiders and far from pigs, cultivating monster meat, etc.)

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4 Da LOLs    275
8 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

As mentioned above by @Sinister_Fang this won't work.

This would work. There will always be griefing near spawn in one way or another, but this would at least remove the tentacles option.

A lot of people have mentioned that Wickerbottom's perks would get balanced down if you needed the sanity cost before casting a book. I'd even extend that as a game mechanic, to all magic casting: if you don't have the sanity cost for it, you can't cast it. Would tone down wickerbottom's book spam or at least it would require some extra planning and costs. This would also prevent for everyone the emergency dwarf star spam, or telepoofing away if you already are at 0 sanity.
 

I like this. It wont make him more interesting, but it would balance him down if they add something else when its his rebalance turn.
 

I agree with this except for "lighter should be one with infinite fuel (not craftable)". If you die for a moment or just drop your stuff, and someone takes your lighter, it would mean that there is no way for you to get it back. The same goes if you loose it. If you check the main items of all the other characters they are either craftable or re-obtainable somehow to prevent this. I have had my codex umbra book used as fuel by other players, to name something. And I don't think the magic "poofing in her hands" mechanic would work, as this is already a Lucy thing.

Her lighter to be useful should remain craftable, provide the same light radius as a torch (currently it sucks, in singleplayer it was useful because it was permanent, but here nobody would pick it over a torch or a lamp), allow anyone to cook on it, and perhaps be infinite only when Willow uses it, keeping it lit with the power of her will. So in practice It will not degrade when she uses it, even if at 1%. If anyone else different than a Willow uses it, it will degrade and eventually break. This would make the lighter a "much better torch" just like Wigfrids helmets are better football helmets, and would probably make it an interesting thing to have for other players, specially with the cooking part.

what if it stays at 0% but only willows can refuel it with like grass or something maybe a log give like 80% or something like that and make the radius of light larger

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Superlucas1231    103
8 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

A lot of people have mentioned that Wickerbottom's perks would get balanced down if you needed the sanity cost before casting a book.

I'm not really on board with that idea. It comes off as making "kill zones" and other types of farms more time consuming than it does make them hard.

I think what Klei was trying to do with Wick was to make it hard for her to get out of insanity (and to a degree, low health) as a trade off for using her books, which is why she can't sleep and gains less stats from stale/spoiled food. 

I would rather have her get "locked" out of being sane for a certain time frame whenever she goes insane (or by using books), or at least make sanity sources less effective while being insane (i.e. cooked cactus gives 3 sanity instead of 15, top hat restores .5 sanity per min instead of 3.3).

I'd also give her a random chance on getting a heart attack when she gets attacked by mobs (10% from regular mobs, 15% from insanity mobs), with heart attacks dealing double dmg to her based on the mobs dmg output after armor is calculated. 

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ShadowDuelist    1,906
20 minutes ago, Superlucas1231 said:

I'd also give her a random chance on getting a heart attack when she gets attacked by mobs (10% from regular mobs, 15% from insanity mobs), with heart attacks dealing double dmg to her based on the mobs dmg output after armor is calculated.

She's old, sometimes simpler  solutions get the same result. Instead of RNG her chances to die in an unfair way, she could very well just have 125 max hp. On the forge her hp pool was smaller than the rest, but not as bad as maxwell's. It would also fit her role as a "game mage": mages in games are usually smarter and more fragile than the average fighter, which currently she isnt.

I also support @EuedeAdodooedoe to make spoiled foods to give a much stronger penalty to her.

Regardless, it would be no fun if her rebalance are just nerfs. We want new stuff not nerfs really, and even if the above mentioned nerfs are applied, i'd very much like to see at least 2 new gamechanging books at her disposal.

8 hours ago, Pop Guy said:

 

In my opinion a character should lead players to live different experiences in a game. The advantages you give Willow make it useful, but it's like a Wilson with an endless torch and that you do not have to worry about fire, it does not change the way you experience the game.

I think that Willow should lead the player to actively look for the fire, to "live it", to use it to heal, kill and do things otherwise impossible for the other characters. So that playing Willow would be a unique experience different from all the others.

For example, as Webber (conceptually one of the best characters) that radically changes the way to build a base (close to spiders and far from pigs, cultivating monster meat, etc.)

Absolutely agree. My previous post meant to fix the lighter only, not willow as a whole though. I liked the idea given in another post some time ago that willows firey powers would increase as she becomes insane, so when at 0, or insane levels of sanity, her interaction with "fire" related items change entirely. Examples:

  • Cooking for her in the crock pot started by insane willow is 50% faster
  • Fire staff deals some extra direct explosive damage to a small AOE (it shouldnt set that aoe on fire to prevent griefing or accidents, just explosive damage that doesnt spread fire)
  • Torch or lighter in her hands emit more light
  • Fuel she uses on fires last longer (like the potion of the mad science tab)
  • Emits heat in a small radius for other players (not for her though)
  • Etc

Whenever she is sane again, these boosts are lost. It would also go well with other of her things: Bernie, so you'd be free to use your insane powers while bernie protects you. And id give her 100% permament fire immunity from the start anyway, just that changes her gameplay a lot if you dont have to fear fire damage.

I'd scrap her current con and change it so she takes more damage from freezing and ice damage, and this extra damage she takes is even more when insane.

Anyway Its hard to give her fire related powers without having to mind the griefing capabilities of it, so it takes a lot of thinking really.

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Raspberry Shake    3,441
On 15/02/2019 at 8:45 PM, JohnWatson said:

wilson should be able to use his beard as an alternative to rope in crafting recipes

Holy **** you've done it. Somebody call Klei, they need to hear this.

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EuedeAdodooedoe    1,176
On 18/02/2019 at 7:58 PM, ShadowDuelist said:

As mentioned above by @Sinister_Fang this won't work.

I agree with this except for "lighter should be one with infinite fuel (not craftable)". If you die for a moment or just drop your stuff, and someone takes your lighter, it would mean that there is no way for you to get it back. The same goes if you loose it. If you check the main items of all the other characters they are either craftable or re-obtainable somehow to prevent this. I have had my codex umbra book used as fuel by other players, to name something. And I don't think the magic "poofing in her hands" mechanic would work, as this is already a Lucy thing.

Her lighter to be useful should remain craftable, provide the same light radius as a torch (currently it sucks, in singleplayer it was useful because it was permanent, but here nobody would pick it over a torch or a lamp), allow anyone to cook on it, and perhaps be infinite only when Willow uses it, keeping it lit with the power of her will. So in practice It will not degrade when she uses it, even if at 1%. If anyone else different than a Willow uses it, it will degrade and eventually break. This would make the lighter a "much better torch" just like Wigfrids helmets are better football helmets, and would probably make it an interesting thing to have for other players, specially with the cooking part.

The main point about Wicker was that the book is too powerful because it can be used anywhere, just in general, imho. And there not being any marsh turf means players have no idea that a tentacle is there. You could remove the marsh turf, but if you are a griefer, that's too late to consider and dangerous, and for players with good intentions, make tentacle sanity farms and for the purposes of fighting BQ, so changing turf there is way too risky. And I have had times where players intentionally set up marsh turf JUT so people don't go near that area. Mainly just for warning purposes. Could also make it so you can't dig the turf up until all tentacles on the tile are dead.

I edited my previous post, you can read up a bit more on that, and particularly addition to Willow. I really think that lighter should stay exclusive to her, with bernie being something she can use for being a team player.

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__IvoCZE__    1,931
On 18. 2. 2019 at 8:54 PM, Angel_Octoling said:

This.

Among with simply disallowing Tentacles to spawn there or even not allowing Wicker to read nearby.

The Radius has to be large, if it's small, they'll just surround the radius.

Wicker would be like: ''No, I don't want to hurt others!'' even though people literally get stuck in tentacles while farming bq

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__IvoCZE__    1,931
8 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Could also make it so you can't dig the turf up until all tentacles on the tile are dead.

If there is almost 20 tentacles on one tile then you can't even dig the turf without dying

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Ressayez    1,222

The ability to identify who spawned the tentacles would be nice, pretty hard to do when there's multiple Wickerbottoms and Maxwells on a server. I think one of the key issues with griefing using tentacles is that its fairly anonymous unless someone catches you reading.

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__IvoCZE__    1,931
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ressayez said:

The ability to identify who spawned the tentacles would be nice, pretty hard to do when there's multiple Wickerbottoms and Maxwells on a server. I think one of the key issues with griefing using tentacles is that its fairly anonymous unless someone catches you reading.

one time i was on one of those mega klei pubs and someone spawned tentacles at spawn...

everyone thought it was me when literally it could have been someone else who actually found tentacle spots...

this is why we need something that the name of the Tentacle would change to XXXXXX's Tentacle

Edited by __IvoCZE__
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