Sign in to follow this  
6Havok9

So, I uncovered this beast. Boiler possible?

Recommended Posts

6Havok9    49

I dug out this thing from hell.

Ironvolcano.thumb.jpg.5aab4fca7c5a23d6b9703ba84f4e1f08.jpg

According to Onical it's better than 98% of the same type, with an average output of 0,42 kg/s.

My plan was to use it to try making liquid steel, however, it's very close to an oil reservoir. Do you think it might be possible to setup a small boiler using the volcano as a heat source, or is the output insufficient? Has anyone tried something like this before?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnFrancis    81

Tricky to tell for sure but it would depend on how much you want to boil. A minor magma volcano which would produce far more potential energy struggled to keep up with a 10kg/s oil boiler. If your willing to go smaller it might be possible but considering the effort involved in making a petroleum boiler to begin with I would advise you to go big and use geo thermal magma to power it. Should last for a few hundred cycles on one load of magma. Please note you may want to wall that thing in until you decide what to do or that area will quickly become an inferno.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6Havok9    49

I was thinking going with a central petroleum boiler feeding 3 small sour gas boilers, one for every oil well I have, each one being different regarding layout, heat exchange method and heat source. Being the iron volcano that close, I was wondering if it could keep up with a 3,3 kg/s (periodic, of course) sour gas boiler. Maybe I should do the math... >< It's just a "because I can" thing... IF I can, of course :)

Edited by 6Havok9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SakuraKoi    264
3 hours ago, 6Havok9 said:

I dug out this thing from hell.

According to Onical it's better than 98% of the same type, with an average output of 0,42 kg/s.

My plan was to use it to try making liquid steel, however, it's very close to an oil reservoir. Do you think it might be possible to setup a small boiler using the volcano as a heat source, or is the output insufficient? Has anyone tried something like this before?

Well, whether the output is sufficient for constant use can be done with simple calculations:

Oil Production 3333.33g/s at 90°C

Iron Production 420g/s at 2526.85 °C

Wanted temperature (for Petroleum) 400°C

Heat Capacity Oil 1.69

Heat Capacity Iron 0.449

Temperature difference for Oil to reach 400°C: 310°C

Temperature difference for Iron to reach 400°C: 2126°C

 

at this point one can already tell since heat capacity of gold is below 1/10th of oil but by far the temperature difference is not 10 times bigger while additionally the mass is also not the same, making it nearly 1/10. One could say that one might need around 10 gold volcanoes (plus minus a few, rather plus).

 

but let's more math:

Energy for the oil to reach enlightenment: 310*1.69*3333.33=>1 746 331.59 DTU

Energy the iron can provide: 2126*0.449*420=>400 921.08 DTU that's ~1/4th

 

This means you could boil a little over 765g of crude oil with it per second, that's still 459kg per cycle.

It is of course worth mentioning that the temperature output us very inconsistent so when building this should be considered, lest you make sour gas.

Edited by SakuraKoi
it was actually an iron volcano with golden sheen...
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6Havok9    49

It is an iron volcano tho, so roughly 3 times more energy than gold as you said, and it's gonna deal with very hot boiled petroleum, with the objective of making sour gas, if I ever decide to go that way. Else, liquid steel :D

Edited by 6Havok9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saturnus    2,303
11 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

Temperature difference for Oil to reach 400°C: 310°C

No heat exchanger? Seriously?

Even a crappy half-arsed heat exchanger would get the crude oil to 350C before the boiler, so the actual delta-T is 50K.

A well designed heat exchanger can vastly improve on that and get the crude oil to about 390C before the boiler making the delta-T a mere 10K.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SakuraKoi    264
2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

No heat exchanger? Seriously?

...Seriously? Of course the calculation does not consider an additional source of heat, that is the point: The boiler would not be self-sufficient. You need more than that but let me do you the favor and consider thermo aquatuners with super coolant and water each. Each would produce...

4.179*14*10000=>585 060 DTU/s

or

8.440*14*10000=>1 181 600 DTU/s

indeed for one (SC) or two (H20) to close the gap of 1 345 410 DTU to ~200 000 DTU, nearly boiling all. Of course that'd then need 1.2 kW or double of that.

Otherwise... magma may not be that finite but a PITA to outsource, even just because of the fact that  the biome is still mostly blocked.

 

but welp, my mistake with the iron, it looked quite golden to me, fix'd et now. 765g should the the precise value you can type into a liquid valve. I'm pretty sure though that "preboiled petroleum" would then come from the oil reservoir, yes? Oil Wells produce it at 90°C which is perhaps just slightly below the temperature of the oil biome.

If you would want sour gas, you need to give and take another 142°C and if you just want to use the oil or petroleum to quench the giron before using it elsewhere, it'd suffice.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zarquan    529
6 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

...Seriously? Of course the calculation does not consider an additional source of heat, that is the point: The boiler would not be self-sufficient. You need more than that but let me do you the favor and consider thermo aquatuners with super coolant and water each. Each would produce...

What he is saying is that the sour gas/petroleum can be treated fairly as a heat source in this system.  Use the crude oil to cool the sour gas, which heats the crude oil.

Edited by Zarquan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saturnus    2,303
7 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

...Seriously? Of course the calculation does not consider an additional source of heat, that is the point.

What are you talking about? There's no additional source of heat. A heat exchanger simply uses the petroleum to heat up the crude oil before entering the boiler chamber.

For example here's a petroleum boiler I built as an experiment.

Crude oil input is 90C. Petroleum output is 116C, so cold enough that the pump can be made of gold. No space age materials is used, not even ceramics or steel is used anywhere. Heating is done with obsidian pipes in magma filled with superheated steam. It uses about 30g/s of superheated steam to cook 4kg/s crude oil from the 390C the heat exchanger is limited to with the shut off valves and temp sensors to 405C.

image.thumb.png.45afa9468d6dac364ee47969d103084f.png

Edited by Saturnus
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnFrancis    81

I kinda feel bad for SakuraKoi, left out a counter flow heat exchanger in his calculations while their are two active threads about them or oil boilers on the front page. Many people full of lots of info on the subject ready to post, really bad timing :) Don't worry about it SakuraKoi you bothered to do the maths the rest of us were way to lazy for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SakuraKoi    264
10 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

What he is saying is that the sour gas/petroleum can be treated fairly as a heat source in this system.  Use the crude oil to cool the sour gas, which heats the crude oil.

I can see now what you are getting at though it is still an additional contraption, even if the source of additional heat is recycled from the very same system, one can very well prefer to let it retain that heat to simply delete it (through using the petroleum up), making one not want to have it exchange heat and even if not, heat exchange does not mean you get all the heat you need.

The question simply was if a boiler is possible and the answer is "without anymore, a small one" and "a complex one is possible can be explored further", simply using a block of magma obviously misses that point, twice since to begin with the primer here is vastly different. Recycling the heat would rather net and to answer whether a complex one with a heat exchanger is possible...

Refined Petroleum @400°C with 1.76 SHC vs New Crude Oil @90°C with 1.69 SHC =>met slightly above the middle so ~250°C.

Remember the 420g iron can heat 3333.33g crude oil by 72°C with the 400 921 DTU plus then another few °C (but by no means 78°C) since it is now below 400°C. This means an "in-house heat exchanger" would still not be enough without any additional source, even if it is sour gas which has a little more DTU.

5 minutes ago, JohnFrancis said:

you bothered to do the maths the rest of us were way to lazy for that.

I actually find it pretty weird that those threads go full-technical/scientific which should be more effort than just doing numbers while it still boils down to those very numbers. I actually tend to avoid such threads with "new discoveries" because the concept is not new but pretty much common sense. We all know how heat exchange may work, in many different ways and thermo aquatuners are indeed the ones I favor due to the fact that they make temperatures go past each other, not just close to. Rather than heat exchanger I'd call the other heat equalizer.

You still can not create energy without mass after all, no? Well, kinda yes in the rare instance where you change the material but while Petroleum has 0.07 (4%) more SHC than Crude Oil and Sour Gas 0.208 more (12%), I have yet to see that utilized, probably because it does not reach a perpetual state with that little while new Crude Oil.is created at 90°C. It probably would need to literary double the energy (100%) to heat the new crude oil evermore. 

What they do is "merely" optimize it and show it, something which I like to do myself and what I suggest anyone else to do as well after seeing that in theory the numbers match up. That's one thing that ONI makes fun after all, having a theory and doing it in practice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saturnus    2,303
37 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

II actually find it pretty weird that those threads go full-technical/scientific which should be more effort than just doing numbers while it still boils down to those very numbers.

Experiments are set up to explore if theory is correct. Which it turns out that it is not. Your numbers does not accurately describe ONI physics. 

Edited by Saturnus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SakuraKoi    264
6 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Your numbers does not accurately describe ONI physics. 

Is what you claim but you are not proving it with your experiment. Like already said, the primer is 420g of iron per second versus 3333g of oil per second as counter, not several tons of magma(&steam) which just happens to lose temperature.

Please ensure that your experiments are set up properly or at least link me a proper post. One that turns an iron volcano with an oil well into a self-sufficient boiler. "Powered" or rather heated by itself, minus maybe pumps since we do not want to add electricity into the mix. Or show a valid equivalent (i.e 3333g/s oil input @90°C AND 420g/s iron at 2526°C, recycling/exchanging heat is allowed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saturnus    2,303
23 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

Is what you claim but you are not proving it with your experiment.

Yes, I have. I have proven that if liquids move more than one tile on flat terrain. And if at that time there is heat transfer affecting the liquid in any way. There will be heat deletion.

Edited by Saturnus
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Crude oil input is 90C. Petroleum output is 116C, so cold enough that the pump can be made of gold. No space age materials is used, not even ceramics or steel is used anywhere. Heating is done with obsidian pipes in magma filled with superheated steam. It uses about 30g/s of superheated steam to cook 4kg/s crude oil from the 390C the heat exchanger is limited to with the shut off valves and temp sensors to 405C.

Could I get a save file for this? The idea of using steam to heat the oil is fascinating! would very much like to see how this works and tinker with the throughput.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this