Junksteel Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Hey, just dropping my thoughts on this as a new player. The changes in the printing pod made the game much more friendly to me and specially to my girlfriend. Making it optional before creating a new game as it is with sandbox mode or those initial adjustments isn't ideal in my opinion. Hey, it is just an opinion, not a fact, ok? We really don't want to be separated from others in the standard experience of the game because we use a feature. Psychologically it has an impact and the playthrough would feel much less valuable as if it was in the same level of cheating. The point is, making it 'optional' before starting the game feels as bad for us as it may be for you to listen "just don't use it if you don't want to". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Belle Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Oh, I would certainly support making it optional to turn off, not to turn on. I like the change and enjoy it both in gameplay and thematically. But I agree I wouldn't want to feel like I'm playing on easy mode for using the feature. As a relatively new player, it really doesn't feel like easy-mode. The impact of tons of fertilizer is lost on me because I still largely grow mushrooms, and also tend to stockpile food (1.4 million kcals for 8 duplicants? Most of it pepper bread that my duplicants aren't actually allowed to eat? Seems right to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nova_Belle said: The impact of tons of fertilizer is lost on me because I still largely grow mushrooms Mushrooms can be fertilized as well. The actual power of using a farm station is not the resource conservation (that`s for late game) but saving space. With fertilizer you can sustain your colony froma much smaller farm. Other than that i think fertilizer is great food for sage hatches. With 100% mass convertion you get 3t of coal out of that which might not sound much but it`s not a bad trade overall imo considering you can get meat and eggs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Belle Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I've honestly never run out of space in my main base area. And with so few duplicants, squeezing in 22 mushrooms isn't too difficult. I did use fertilizer the first time I grew mushrooms because they took so much longer to grow than mealwood and made me panicky. But I also ran out. I know that at some point I should probably grow something else, so my video game brain of 'never use the elixirs, you might need them later' tells me to hoard fertilizer until I need it, even though I don't know when that will be. But, different playstyles and all. That's just how I've been playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuhybrid Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Nova_Belle said: I know someone else mentioned it, but I'll say it again: I find the term 'Welfare Pod' quite offensive. Fortunately not everyone is easily offended by unoffensive and frankly irrelevant details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Belle Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, Xuhybrid said: Fortunately not everyone is easily offended... Very fortunate! I would hate to think everyone has to feel as wretched as I do about some things. However, we have moved on, and you can feel free to discuss the topic at hand instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avc15 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Nova_Belle said: Oh, I would certainly support making it optional to turn off, not to turn on. Really, we can have all of them at once. A "no sweat" game mode, a "survival" game mode, and a "proud" game mode. To say "don't make it optional to turn on, but you can make it optional to turn off" - think about that for a second, the opposite side has a related misgiving as you had about using sandbox mode. Care packages were already accessible before in the form of sandbox mode. But you'd rather have easy gameplay the standard, and make hard gameplay a self-imposed set of challenges, not even a natively supported mode. Try instead making multiple game modes. On the easiest mode, you get care packages. On the hardest mode, you don't, among other difficulties. The middle mode, some blend of the two extremes. The easy mode should make you select it. Call it standard mode if that'll make people feel better about themselves. The hard mode should be a native game mode as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuhybrid Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 48 minutes ago, Nova_Belle said: Very fortunate! I would hate to think everyone has to feel as wretched as I do about some things. However, we have moved on, and you can feel free to discuss the topic at hand instead. I would hardly call something you posted 3 hours ago as something we collectively moved on from, nor does that even matter when you post something like that. Expect and accept the response instead of trying to be ignorant. Certainly don't then condescend me for daring to respond to a post you made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Belle Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Sandbox mode is quite a bit different from randomly generated printed materials. A comparison would be to print out a randomly generated duplicant vs being able to choose any duplicant with any stats you like. The thing is, I don't think the new feature is easy mode. It may need to be tweaked and adjusted - many things do, and I'm not really experienced enough at the game to say how or why. I have 261 hours played, throughout the past couple of months. I personally find the game quite difficult. Setting up automation and logic gates and efficient layouts or even just plumbing, it's all things I'm Not Good at. The introduction of an extra wheezewort or some shine bugs doesn't suddenly make the game easier for me. People play at different skill levels, people are good at different things and bad at others. If you're at the point where the introduction of 2kg of cool water suddenly makes the game a breeze for you, then I would encourage you to up the difficulty, and feel good about yourself for being able to handle the challenge! Despite what many people here seem to think, this is not an easy game. It's certainly easier if I just want to subsist on mushrooms and a SPOM or what have you and never move on, but if I want to advance, it's difficult to do, Adding some extra toys here and there doesn't change that - it gives me the chance to experiment with new things. This game is highly inaccessible, especially for new players, and there's not a ton of information out there - most of what I find is vastly out of date, or may be out of date but I can't tell. I also feel that the change is appropriate mechanically and thematically (at least, from what I've taken from the game). The Printing Pod is able to print out people, so it makes sense that it can also print out other materials. Without this change, once you've gotten the duplicants you want, you just stop using the pod completely, and it becomes this huge, immovable, useless object stuck in the middle of your base. Now it has additional purpose. Thematically, I like the idea of being the life support AI looking after these poor duplicants in a sort of clueless way, by sometimes giving them new friends, sometimes a wort seed, and sometimes a bunch of pufts they don't actually want because I'm Helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgamer123 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Nova_Belle said: Despite what many people here seem to think, this is not an easy game. It's certainly easier if I just want to subsist on mushrooms and a SPOM or what have you and never move on, but if I want to advance, it's difficult to do, Adding some extra toys here and there doesn't change that - it gives me the chance to experiment with new things. This game is highly inaccessible, especially for new players, and there's not a ton of information out there - most of what I find is vastly out of date, or may be out of date but I can't tell. This...the wikia....hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsedgewick Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I learned most of what I know on the "official" gamepedia wiki, but that was many updates ago, and keeping up with new knowledge with an existing knowledgebase is easier than absorbing a huge mass of information in one go. I personally feel like the printable bonuses are nice, but too random to be effectively useful. Dwarf Fortress allows the player to request that next year's dwarven trading caravan bring certain useful materials, but this of course is delayed by a literal gameplay year. And you still have to buy the stuff off the caravan, of course. It would be nice if I could somehow shape the general outcome of the next printable resource pod. A generic selector like "refined materials" would govern things like refined metals or lime, while "raw ores" could give you wolframite or copper ores. "Survival materials" would give algae, oxylite, or ration bars. "Critters" is obvious, and so is "plants". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarylo Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 20 hours ago, Nova_Belle said: Very fortunate! I would hate to think everyone has to feel as wretched as I do about some things. However, we have moved on, and you can feel free to discuss the topic at hand instead. No I can't move on. Someone explain to me in detail how and why can "Wellfare Pod" be perceived as being offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Belle Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I really don't want to boil down into an argument about this, and frankly it's rather personal. I would prefer to discuss the actual features of the Printing Pod. For the sake of those who don't care, I've put the rest in a spoiler. Spoiler I know that I brought it up, or at least brought it up a second time that people actually paid attention to and were offended by. My intention was not to say that the OP purposefully used offensive language. I meant to point out that I, at least, feel a nasty jolt whenever I see the title of this thread. My rather optimistic and ignorant hope was that, as I am a living human being, there would be some respect given to this. Obviously not. I find this strange, given that the term is 'frankly irrelevant' to the actual topic, and would be easy enough to change with little to no impact on your lives, but that's me. Generally, the term Welfare applies to government programs designed to promote the well being of persons in need. Examples in America would be Social Security and Food Stamps. However, the term is often used to insult those who receive this assistance as being lazy, good-for-nothing, etceteras looking for hand-outs that they don't deserve, which seems to be the implied meaning of the title of the thread - that the Printing Pod is giving hand-outs you did nothing to earn. These are benefits that I receive for various reasons. But since they are funded by taxes, there is a lot of hatred, scorn, and judgment given by others who see me and say that I 'look fine' and should just get off my ass and 'get a job like the rest of us'. Thus, when people see me using food stamps at the grocery store, they're not only judging me, but also examining my groceries to judge how much I'm wasting their money. And so on. People do not look kindly on people in need. In fact, I would suspect a number of people reading this are thinking that I should, in fact, get off my ass and get a job, which is why I'd rather not go into this, as I feel it will extend the argument rather than settle it. The reason that this is particularly deep-rooted and significant to me is, as I said, far too personal. Instead, I would just ask that you respect the feelings of an individual, regardless of whether you understand the reason, and make a minor change to your phrasing of this new feature. It would make me and others like me feel better, and be a minor nuisance to you at worst. And if you can't do that, then I would ask that you just let it go, ignore me, and continue on-topic about the video game. If you would like to throw further insults at me, or just discuss the subject, I would invite you to do so via private messages rather than here in this thread, where it does not belong, and where I will post no further replies on this matter. In short, breathe, let it go, and move on, because frankly I'm getting so many wheezeworts in my game that I kinda don't know what to do with them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Zarylo said: No I can't move on. Someone explain to me in detail how and why can "Wellfare Pod" be perceived as being offensive? Because it uses the term wellfare as an implied insult, and thus is insulting to those on wellfare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trego Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 56 minutes ago, Yunru said: Because it uses the term wellfare as an implied insult, and thus is insulting to those on wellfare? This is circular logic. "implied insult" is basically just synonymous with 'offensive' here. A less circular answer would be, perhaps, to remark that there is a channel on American television that uses welfare as an implied insult 24/7, and so then people could see the term here as a possible reference to that news channel/school of thought. I think it's important to point out that the perceived offensiveness of the terms here depend highly on which country you live in. So perhaps we can acknowledge that we may live in different countries and so bring different perspectives to what will be perceived as offensive, which makes that discussion inherently more difficult, but what we share is our love for ONI, which is what this forum is about, and maybe consider moving back to talking about ONI here? So, printing pod drops: 3 tons of fertilizer is a lot, I agree with that...but let's also try to figure out how rare it is. I've never had it as an option. Do we have an expected value for about how many cycles you need to play to have an expected value of 1 fertilizer option? I think it's ok to have a few outliers if they come up very rarely, if we balance the printing pod so nothing is better than anything else than what's the point of making the drops random in the first place? Anyways, that's my reasoning for leaving the fertilizer option as is. Here's another: why are the dupes getting sent so much fertilizer? Because you can make fertilizer out of things the Earth has a lot of, like bird feces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tytan Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 dude, I understand you guys who are wanting a kind of filter on the things that are going to be given, but think about these points: 1) if klei restrict the list to only things that we want and are useful the game becomes easy 2) if klei restrict the list to things we dig which would prevent someone from digging only the necessary at the beginning of the base thus eliminating any initial challenge? (dirt, oxilite, seaweed, water, mush = accumulate for a while already was) 3) If klei restricts the list to a predetermined list by number of cycles, someone can simply reset the game and get only what they want (do not tell me you never did this to get a good dupe) I think it's funny people wanting nerf printing pod or a certain balance, but you have to think that this is an additional one, we played the game so far without this help, I do not think it's meaningless to want this help to be fair, when most things is not fair (if you think almost everything has a counter on the game) I think the way it was before was better "ah but there were things you were not going to do at that time" could I have steel in cycle 3? could, but what I would do with steel many wondered, that is what is stopping, no matter how we will use, and this is what magic was the randomness, the difficulty created in simply not having how to prepare for what lies ahead, facing the unknown and not something that is in our zone of comfort or need; will not use store... is op? do not use; do not need does not start; Did you come at the wrong time? am sorry. is what I think of all this, just rain in the wet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarylo Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 14/02/2019 at 6:38 PM, Yunru said: Because it uses the term wellfare as an implied insult, and thus is insulting to those on wellfare? Apologies for my blunt question. Welfare wasn't a thing I was aware of. Thanks Nova, Yunru; for filling me in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee1026 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Why is fertilizer actually useful? As far as I can tell, fertilizer is one of the most useless items in the game. Should you actually want any, the machine to make them don't cost very much to run. Is there something important that I am missing? The farm station requires crazy amounts of dupe time for fairly marginal raw material savings, and if you are willing to pay that much in dupe time, grooming hatches produces essentially free meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarylo Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 24 minutes ago, lee1026 said: Why is fertilizer actually useful? As far as I can tell, fertilizer is one of the most useless items in the game. Should you actually want any, the machine to make them don't cost very much to run. Is there something important that I am missing? The farm station requires crazy amounts of dupe time for fairly marginal raw material savings, and if you are willing to pay that much in dupe time, grooming hatches produces essentially free meat. well, fertilizer essentially halves growth time (removes 1 cycle growth time once per cycle) This means you use half as much dirt, slime and/or water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee1026 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Well, yes, but if you spend the dupe time grooming hatches, you get the food without spending any dirt, slime or water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarylo Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 30 minutes ago, lee1026 said: Well, yes, but if you spend the dupe time grooming hatches, you get the food without spending any dirt, slime or water. At the expense of even more time and space requirements sure. And rocks that you don't care about. Another common use for fertilizer is cooking it to dirt (125° C) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee1026 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1.5 tons of dirt is even less to write home about - the game spawns you with over 100 tons; what difference is 3 tons every few hundred cycles make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarylo Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Well I suppose one man's trash is another man's treasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0xFADE Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Ah I see. When framed like that getting that much fertilizer is pretty unbalanced. I havn't made it in so long I didn't really consider the value. I just mainly pick critters so i don't have to ranch them. Or more wheezeworts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, nakomaru said: . It's fun to get presents 8 pacus continually reproducing every 20 cycles or so is my favorite. Ranching without ranching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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