AutumnPingo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 8 hours ago, Raspberry Shake said: I do disagree with the entire "Warbucks if offensive" thing, but I don't really agree with that statement. The Hbomberguy Lovecraft video basically sums it up. After watching the video, I see where your coming from, and respect that, but from what I understand, he makes the one quote, something like: 'Just because it happened in a different era, doesnt mean it hurts people any less'. This is true, but he only reinforces that point, and never addresses the idea that what we know is harmful now, wasnt understood then, the implication being, maybe they would have had different opinions if presented with our modern perspectives. He did mention that some of Lovecraft's flaws could have been derived from a fear of the unknown. 2 hours ago, TemporaryMan said: I'm sorry, I've agreed with most of your more nuanced arguments in the other thread, but I've read the discussion about this top to bottom and I've only seen maybe two... You're right, it shouldnt be a big deal. But what people are really upset over, goes further than this one incident with Klei. Its about the over the top outrage culture that western civilization is facing as a whole right now. People are getting tired of censorship and cancellation based on opinions that (like you said) few reasonable people hold. Edit: shortened quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raspberry Shake Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 I should really unsub to this discussion before I goes too political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemporaryMan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 14 hours ago, AutumnPingo said: After watching the video, I see where your coming from, and respect that, but from what I understand, he makes the one quote, something like: 'Just because it happened in a different era, doesnt mean it hurts people any less'. This is true, but he only reinforces that point, and never addresses the idea that what we know is harmful now, wasnt understood then, the implication being, maybe they would have had different opinions if presented with our modern perspectives. He did mention that some of Lovecraft's flaws could have been derived from a fear of the unknown. You're right, it shouldnt be a big deal. But what people are really upset over, goes further than this one incident with Klei. Its about the over the top outrage culture that western civilization is facing as a whole right now. People are getting tired of censorship and cancellation based on opinions that (like you said) few reasonable people hold. Edit: shortened quote. My point wasn't that few reasonable people hold the opinion. My point was there was an emerging consensus among Warbucks mourners that Klei had been bullied into doing this by an angry mob of horrible, awful, censorious people, without supporting evidence. That's not the case. Klei made the change because they felt it was the right thing to do. Statements in favour of removing Warbucks have generally been civil and reasonable, not threatening or intimidating. I don't agree with your assessment of the bigger picture, but I'm not sure here's the right place to discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutumnPingo Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, TemporaryMan said: My point wasn't that few reasonable people hold the opinion. My point was there was an emerging consensus among Warbucks mourners that Klei had been bullied into doing this by an angry mob... I havent heard the pro-removal side as much, so I wont aruge against it, but it just really disheartens me to see companies and groups removing things because they dont age well or are viewed differently now. Maybe it had nothing to do with current events, but from where Im standing it looks like it does, and Id rather voice my opinion than not. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallichydra Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 walani is worth removing, why don't they remove her? i mean: not many is playing her bad design a lot of other bad stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedregales Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 15 hours ago, metallichydra said: walani is worth removing, why don't they remove her? i mean: not many is playing her bad design a lot of other bad stuff Quick, delete this comment before CaptainChaotica sees it! ---- Very awful joke aside: There was a thread were people were talking about how awful Warbucks was. It mentions his striking coloration, his incongruent perks, and his offensive colonialist stereotype. Here is such a thread if you are curious: Even though it raises a couple valid points about the character; it also goes deeply into the political side, and there is really no suggestion on how to improve/change him (despite being in the "suggestion and feedback" thread of Hamlet). We can agree that none of this was directly thrown at Klei, but rather to the character, so we can't say Klei was directly pressured to remove him; but there was a fanbase in discontent with Warbucks. This was of course not the only thread that put Warbucks in a bad light, this was just the most awful I could find (and the one that focused more on the essence of the character rather than the mechanics), as there was another that explained how the mechanics of Warbucks made no sense with the character and the title and ways to improve it, or fix it. It didn't help Warbucks case that by the players he was viewed as an animal trophy hunter (OG title: "gentleman hunter", phrase: "Say ol' chap! This will be a game to remember!", picture has a blunderbuss), but he ended up being butchered and forced as a treasure hunter (title changed to "affluent explorer", the picture was going to be changed for him to have a shovel, and he was given the perk of reduced durability usage on treasure hunting tools). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradyne Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just want to mention that while Klei's decision may not have had anything to do with the political stuff, the topic mentioned above is one example of why we thought that side of it likely to have had an impact. Far as I'm concerned it's done with now, so eh. Just clarifying. I really didn't feel like spending the time looking for those topics when people were coming after us for thinking differently. Joew's later responses kinda solidified people defending Warbucks as being the problem, so it felt pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellimarual Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 12 hours ago, lifetheuniverse said: Just want to mention that while Klei's decision may not have had anything to do with the political stuff, the topic mentioned above is one example of why we thought that side of it likely to have had an impact. Far as I'm concerned it's done with now, so eh. Just clarifying. I really didn't feel like spending the time looking for those topics when people were coming after us for thinking differently. Joew's later responses kinda solidified people defending Warbucks as being the problem, so it felt pointless. No doubt it had an impact, just not the imaginary one people were ranting and raving over. Chances are it went something like this: Some players, in the forums: Whoa, some of the things this new character says and stands for are pretty gross. Klei: Wow, now that you mention it, that’s true. Maybe that stuff isn’t as funny as we thought at first. Let’s rethink this after getting this feedback from people from whom we have requested feedback. Other players: OMG OMG OMG! A mob of SJWs with torches and pitchforks stormed the battlements and forced Klei to remove a character! How dare they be so offended? This is the worst thing that’s ever happened and they are the worst people! It’s insupportable! This outrage culture is out of control!!!! & etc for pages and pages In a paranoid frenzy and with absolutely no sense of irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desblat Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 On 09.02.2019 at 2:05 AM, Warbucks said: I won't be playing hamlet till Warbucks is added back, which may be never, but so be it! Removing characters is just something I can't support and if Warbucks gets a complete redesign (especially appearance and quotes wise) it's basically the same as removing him completely! Just because a character was historically accurate to what it was based off in the old times and people got offended a character was removed, I hate when companies do this kind of thing removing completely okay content because a few people got so offended.. Though, since Klei has been so great before I don't hate them for it, but it still saddens me if this is the road they're going to go down makes me worried that any future content will have to be baby-friendly. Use mods man, who plays DS w/o mods anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Guy Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 It happens that someone is removed. At least now Warbucks is in history :'D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izuku_Midoriya Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Desblat said: Use mods man, who plays DS w/o mods anyway. me, because character mods gave me a bug where character selection is always random Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
. . . Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Desblat said: who plays DS/T w/o mods anyway. weirdos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charsis Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 What people find troublesome in his skin color, I don't get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desblat Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Charsis said: What people find troublesome in his skin color, I don't get it? It's different to other chars skin color, not ds-style, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Da LOLs Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 look im Sad he is gone but Joew saiD thAt they didn't know of the displeasure some felt for them they just didn't like the way he turned out and wanted to keep their artistic style and quality high which in a way i can understand i make a lot of fan art but i am so scared of it beinG laughable that i never posted mOre than my profile pic it's Not the removal that Hurt thE most it was the reaction from the anti-Warbucks community some just assumeD that the minuscule amount of hate was enough to destroy the character and marveling at the fact that they took away (from canon) a character that people actually liked more people liked than not that shows to me nothing but childish selfish entitlement that they think that their opinion is more important than others i actually liked a guy before here he seemed nice till he shown his true toxic personality i couldn't in good conscience keep hanging with them i'd tell who they is but that would be not to the rules i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedregales Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 11 hours ago, 4 Da LOLs said: look im Sad he is gone but Joew saiD thAt they didn't know of the displeasure some felt for them they just didn't like the way he turned out and wanted to keep their artistic style and quality high which in a way i can understand i make a lot of fan art but i am so scared of it beinG laughable that i never posted mOre than my profile pic it's Not the removal that Hurt thE most it was the reaction from the anti-Warbucks community some just assumeD that the minuscule amount of hate was enough to destroy the character and marveling at the fact that they took away (from canon) a character that people actually liked more people liked than not that shows to me nothing but childish selfish entitlement that they think that their opinion is more important than others i actually liked a guy before here he seemed nice till he shown his true toxic personality i couldn't in good conscience keep hanging with them i'd tell who they is but that would be not to the rules i think I find the first paragraph hard to believe since they have shown they read the forums rather frequently... But oh well. What pains me the most of Warbucks removal is that there was not much of a try to keep him. If it truly was that he was not "good enough", why not try and make him "good enough" in the slightest? They only added one pretty bad perk, then tweaked the sanity gain from oincs a bit, and changed some of his lines and title to match an explorer/archaeologist. None of that was ever going to make him unique or better, it was just tugging it under the rug. The worst part is that Wilba got a pretty interesting were-transformation (that is tons of times better than Woodie's) and ways to control it at will, and when he was removed to top it all! At least we got Wormwood as consolation, sort of. And yes, pointing fingers is against the rules, specially for something as silly as an opinion (sorry if this comes as rude, is not my intention). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Da LOLs Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, pedregales said: I find the first paragraph hard to believe since they have shown they read the forums rather frequently... But oh well. What pains me the most of Warbucks removal is that there was not much of a try to keep him. If it truly was that he was not "good enough", why not try and make him "good enough" in the slightest? They only added one pretty bad perk, then tweaked the sanity gain from oincs a bit, and changed some of his lines and title to match an explorer/archaeologist. None of that was ever going to make him unique or better, it was just tugging it under the rug. The worst part is that Wilba got a pretty interesting were-transformation (that is tons of times better than Woodie's) and ways to control it at will, and when he was removed to top it all! At least we got Wormwood as consolation, sort of. And yes, pointing fingers is against the rules, specially for something as silly as an opinion (sorry if this comes as rude, is not my intention). ya it sucks but Joew said somewhere on the political mess of the roadmap that he didn't know and he seems trustworthy yet his others just may not have told him yea i don't think they tried ether 11 minutes ago, pedregales said: And yes, pointing fingers is against the rules, specially for something as silly as an opinion (sorry if this comes as rude, is not my intention). i didn't mind the fact they didn't like Warbucks its because they were childishly happy and mocking others and me who did like them for it shows pure unawareness to others feelings they acted like a child and showed their actual personality that they masked till now for i never saw them win an argument that way so i just stopped watching their content i never even posted to them they are a community figure i just thought they were more chill than what they turned out to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charsis Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 On 24/02/2019 at 10:48 PM, Desblat said: It's different to other chars skin color, not ds-style, that's it. That doesn't make any sense. Plenty Shipwrecked characters have color to skin, while main cast is pale white. Starting to think none really has any clue why he was removed exactly, but based on Wromwood's release it is probably major character perks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMetalMan Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I'll always regret I won't be able to play as him! I should have when I had the chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charsis Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 @TheMetalMan why so regretting tho? Would have had big dopamine rush of huge money sanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Da LOLs Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 5 hours ago, TheMetalMan said: I'll always regret I won't be able to play as him! I should have when I had the chance! you can still find his mod on the workshop to play as him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desblat Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Charsis said: That doesn't make any sense. Plenty Shipwrecked characters have color to skin, while main cast is pale white. Starting to think none really has any clue why he was removed exactly, but based on Wromwood's release it is probably major character perks? Yes, SW chars are a bit different to RoG ones. But none of them is an ORANGE WITH WHITE HAIR To me his skin seems oversaturated, but this issue is solved by a simple mod recolor. You should read answer from dev why they removed Warbacks - because he is "culturaly inacaptable". Nonsense ofcourse, but that is an official position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Da LOLs Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 4 hours ago, Desblat said: You should read answer from dev why they removed Warbacks - because he is "culturaly inacaptable". Nonsense ofcourse, but that is an official position. they also said something about fitting in and quality of perks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desblat Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 16 hours ago, 4 Da LOLs said: they also said something about fitting in and quality of perks Yup, but that argument is nonsense too. Walani. Most useless perks ever. Webber is useless in both SW or HAM. Woodlegs is useless in RoG and HAM. That's a bad character design. Thus using klei logic they should be deleted to. Also I am pretty sure there are pirates and spidermen who are offended by Woodlegs and Webber. That's serious thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Da LOLs Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Desblat said: Webber is useless in both SW or HAM. Webber has some uses in both i mean es not the best but in both has some upsides but yeh i get what you say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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