[Game Update] - 307715

[watermelen671 15,623]

5 hours ago, lifetheuniverse said:

Rip in pepperonis Lara Croft's eccentric granduncle.

*Gruncle.

Also we've now progressed into the memeing stage of the five stages of outrage.

Spoiler

Somebody please just nuke this section of the forums before it becomes terminal.

 

[dissentist 42]

15 hours ago, JoeW said:

Let's be super clear here. The reason we had issue with him was more because of this type of thread. It wasn't as much the character or what he represents, it's what people think that it does. Like this thread there have been a lot of speculations about our intent, when I clearly said why. We didn't have a single person actually contact us to complain about Warbucks. None. Not even one. There were conversations about it, And even after we changed it, there was speculation and decisions about what we did and why when it's very plainly stated.

The simple fact is, we could do better. So we did. If we were trying to sweep him under the rug, we would have removed him entirely. We didn't. I'm sorry that some of you disagree with that decision, but we aren't going to invest more time into it, we put that time into a new character instead.

As far as being upset because of a misrepresentation of what's in the game, we did add a new character in his place. An objectively better character gameplay-wise. We are still in an early-access for the game, that's being worked on added to and changed, but I am sorry you feel that we are misrepresenting what we are doing with the game, but I don't think we are hiding that fact at all.

We will make a new trailer for sure. We're currently working out a roadmap for what we need to get completed to finish early access for the game. 

It's cool for us to talk about this. But let's keep it civil. We're not up to anything weird. Simply when we were in a room talking about how to 'fix' Warbucks, we simply decided our time was better spent on something new. It's that simple. 

 

Plant man is not "objectively better", if you think so then you need to buy a dictionary before you comment further, because you're saying objective where the correct word is SUBJECTIVE.  Fine, rip him out, this whole thing is bull anyways, hopefully at least one person at KLEI learns from this that you don't rip out an established character from a game for no good reason.

If nobody complained about Warbucks then there is literally NO good reason he can't be left in, either changed slightly or exactly the same, it's not like you can only have 3 characters per DLC or anything.  Really all of this would be a moot point if the developers knew how to code properly and not have a game that "supports mods" but literally breaks CONSTANTLY if there's mods installed and an update happens, I really am keeping Warbucks either way, but your poor code are just going to cause me dozens of crashes down the line, so this is going to be reflected in my negative reviews about this across every game on every platform until you fix it.

You may not have had anyone make it worse if he's in the game according to your words here, but you will definitely make it worse for yourselves if you keep him out, because as you clearly state here it is 100% your bad decision, so you rightfully SHOULD suffer consequences for it.

We aren't the devs, the only power we have is in our power to influence either you or our peers. Like it or not, some of us are going to be heard.

Get back in that room and fix this decision, it's a really poor one.

 

[JoeW 26,962]

I clarified in a previous post. 

In terms of the perfromance issues, we're working on that and will soon have a roadmap on what we expect to have done before we finish early access. 

[Izuku_Midoriya 189]

5 minutes ago, JoeW said:

a roadmap on what we expect to have done before we finish early access. 

Is putting back warbucks anywhere on there? General consensus here is that most people want him back or simply don't care.

[SinancoTheBest 1,503]

14 hours ago, JoeW said:

We'll all be talking about this together Monday for sure. =) 

I sincerely hope that the first motion on your Monday meeting will be to discuss Warbucks' return to the game in an uninterrupted moderated caucus for two hours, individual speaker time being 1.5 minutes. It's never too late to go back on a terrible decision. You can do it Klei, just let some basic sense into your veins. 

[dissentist 42]

11 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said:

I sincerely hope that the first motion on your Monday meeting will be to discuss Warbucks' return to the game in an uninterrupted moderated caucus for two hours, individual speaker time being 1.5 minutes. It's never too late to go back on a terrible decision. You can do it Klei, just let some basic sense into your veins. 

It's fairly obvious at this point they're currently attempting to prove that they don't and won't be listening to the fans, at least according to mod/dev comments this weekend.

Hopefully when they "meet to talk about it" one of the speakers at least holds up a printout of literally any poll results on this.

[JoeW 26,962]

18 minutes ago, Izuku_Midoriya said:

Is putting back warbucks anywhere on there? General consensus here is that most people want him back or simply don't care.

We could bring back the gameplay, perhaps. But not the character. 

[SinancoTheBest 1,503]

4 minutes ago, JoeW said:

We could bring back the gameplay, perhaps. But not the character. 

and is there a solid, transparent reason you can provide for this decision, that doesn't reek of hypocrisy or secrecy? What's wrong with this character that isn't wrong with the other collective 18 characters in the official DS universe? Apparently nothing about the gameplay unlike what is claimed in the very first post of this thread if you are considering to reintroduce the gameplay but not the character himself.

[Izuku_Midoriya 189]

20 minutes ago, JoeW said:

We could bring back the gameplay, perhaps. But not the character. 

Isn't your avatar a british gentleman smoking a pipe? Did that tobacco come from the East India Company?

 

This is pretty ludicrous.

[Bluegeist 1,489]

24 minutes ago, JoeW said:

We could bring back the gameplay, perhaps. But not the character. 

That's what I was hoping for. I think the game still needs a character that specializes in ruins exploration, but does it a lot better.

[JoeW 26,962]

16 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said:

and is there a solid, transparent reason you can provide for this decision, that doesn't reek of hypocrisy or secrecy? What's wrong with this character that isn't wrong with the other collective 18 characters in the official DS universe? Apparently nothing about the gameplay unlike what is claimed in the very first post of this thread if you are considering to reintroduce the gameplay but not the character himself.

Yep, everything I have posted previously in this thread. 

5 minutes ago, Izuku_Midoriya said:

Isn't your avatar a british gentleman smoking a pipe? Did that tobacco come from the East India Company?

This is pretty ludicrous.

Nope. That is a character of me that Jeff drew back in 2012 - there is no history or lore as to what is being smoked in it or where it comes from. It's not even technically supposed to be smoke, I think it's supposed to be vapor, I never asked. 

[Izuku_Midoriya 189]

3 minutes ago, JoeW said:

 

Nope. That is a character of me that Jeff drew back in 2012 - there is no history or lore as to what is being smoked in it or where it comes from. It's not even technically supposed to be smoke, I think it's supposed to be vapor, I never asked. 

So you’re gonna claim that character draws no aesthetic elements from the age of imperialism? Like the rest of the entire DLC? What is your problem with the character if you’ve caved and admitted the gameplay can make a comeback?

[Maslak 4,235]

I was always wondering if Joe actually wears a monocle

[JoeW 26,962]

3 minutes ago, Izuku_Midoriya said:

So you’re gonna claim that character draws no aesthetic elements from the age of imperialism? Like the rest of the entire DLC? What is your problem with the character if you’ve caved and admitted the gameplay can make a comeback?

I have already explained that earlier in the thread. I am not here to argue, only to explain our thinking on this decision. If you want to have a constructive discussion about the topic, then please do.

[ucw 473]

43 minutes ago, JoeW said:

We could bring back the gameplay, perhaps. But not the character. 

It would be great to have a character whose perks include exploration right away, especially of the ruins (which is so fun.)  Thanks.  

[Izuku_Midoriya 189]

16 minutes ago, ucw said:

It would be great to have a character whose perks include exploration right away, especially of the ruins (which is so fun.)  Thanks.  

That's literally what Warbucks was...

[maradyne 4,942]

Eh, to many, his character was interesting as well. If we weren't to get that back, mechanics resembling what little he had would probably just cause another upset over the new character not being him. Doesn't seem like explorer or ruins-focused characters should be considered again, as nice of an idea as it was; he got removed, and now confirmation bias is something to consider. Bring any part of him back and one side or the other will backlash, depending on how he's presented.
Better to just forget England exists in regard to DS/DST now that it's come to this, TBH. Wouldn't want to bring this fiasco back, and it's open season now, regardless of the reasons the final decision was made. This game's been exposed to politics now.

Makes any possible plans for Maxwell backstory inconvenient, though.

Edited February 10, 2019 by lifetheuniverse

[dissentist 42]

22 minutes ago, ucw said:

It would be great to have a character whose perks include exploration right away, especially of the ruins (which is so fun.)  Thanks.  

I'm afraid this is an unacceptable appropriation of ancient cultures, and thus cannot be allowed.

The best part is where Joe says his pipe in his avatar is vaping despite being designed based upon an english caricature that predates vaping by literally hundreds of years, he's trolling at this point, and badly.

 

[SkylordElberich 1,016]

1 hour ago, JoeW said:

We could bring back the gameplay, perhaps. But not the character. 

It's not about the gameplay anymore.

[maradyne 4,942]

10 minutes ago, dissentist said:

I'm afraid this is an unacceptable appropriation of ancient cultures, and thus cannot be allowed.

The best part is where Joe says his pipe in his avatar is vaping despite being designed based upon an english caricature that predates vaping by literally hundreds of years, he's trolling at this point, and badly.

I'd say it's moreso that Klei hasn't had to watch their words so carefully in the past. This is the only time I can recall politics affecting the forum this heavily.

[4 Da LOLs 2,629]

3 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

I say it's good that the removed him because Wall Street Journal could take him out of context.

i dont think they care if they were removed to get a cheap scoop

[__IvoCZE__ 6,546]

Just now, 4 Da LOLs said:

i dont think they care if they were removed to get a cheap scoop

I meant it as both a joke and a literal reality...

Some Media right now gets snapped away because people stopped trusting it after they took pewdiepie out of context...

[4 Da LOLs 2,629]

Just now, __IvoCZE__ said:

I meant it as both a joke and a literal reality...

Some Media right now gets snapped away because people stopped trusting it after they took pewdiepie out of context...

i was kinda too lol

[-Variant 5,219]

Stepping into the murky water here, and really, really off topic. 
But It'd be nice to know what's gonna happen to the Snapdragons. 
I'm feeling it's the same story with the Crabapples. But still. 

Also while I'm sad Warbucks has gone missing, I will say I do respect the team's decision. 

[CaribbeanIguana 9]

1 hour ago, JoeW said:

We could bring back the gameplay, perhaps. But not the character. 

I thought the whole issue was that the gameplay wasn't creative enough. If I cared about how each character played first and foremost I'd just play WX/Wicker/Wolfgang. But I don't, so I play as the cool pirate (despite the fact that he's awful outside of SW) and the bad guy from Jumanji (despite the fact that his perks were meager) because I liked their personalities more than the other characters' personalities.

I don't know, removing him entirely instead of just changing his perks like you guys did with Warly and rewriting some of his lines doesn't seem right. How many "it's a...thing"s do you guys change from patch to patch? Just pretend the lines that use the word "savages" or reference the East India Trading company are placeholders like that.