Walls?

[Well-met]

Since just about every single exploit / cheese in the game involves buildable Walls, why doesn't klei do something about said walls? Like make every Mob attack them or something. Same with lureplants and crisped structures.

Seems fairly logical and straight forward yes? I'm a newb to DST and I don't understand how such a good dev can ignore this for ages. Nobody told them?

[rirze]

Yes! Thank you.

Someone finally understands. 

Klei, remove walls plz

[minespatch]

3 hours ago, Hell-met said:

 Like make every Mob attack them or something

Hounds do break them down.

[Sinister_Fang]

16 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Hounds do break them down.

The problem is with abusing their pathfinding. They'll go around walls instead of breaking them down if they can. The problem is that the pathfinding doesn't check for structures, so you can wedge a structure in the wall and they'll get stuck trying to go thru it, even though they can't.

[Viktor234]

4 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

The problem is with abusing their pathfinding. They'll go around walls instead of breaking them down if they can. The problem is that the pathfinding doesn't check for structures, so you can wedge a structure in the wall and they'll get stuck trying to go thru it, even though they can't.

• Enemies priorize attacking walls
  • walls can be abused as Target Dummies (Just place 1x wall for each Hound and they'll focus on the wall while ignoring you completly; Example: Placing walls around a cave entrance will make spawning bats to focus on walls instead of flying around but bats deal 0 damage on walls)
• Enemies priorize walking around walls
  • pathfinding can be abused with long walls & gates or structures (Example: Bee Queen)

[Alexias]

I don’t see how it’s a problem, This exploit only effect people who use it, cheese-ing remove the challenge part and make the game easier and less interesting for people who use it.

 

[Kyno]

It's your choice to use them or not

[Well-met]

17 minutes ago, Kynoox_ said:

It's your choice to use them or not

why would anyone willingly deal with DragonFly's larvas when you can just stall them at their pits by walling off half the field? Bragging?

Just a little wall maze can make bee queen or moon horde a joke too. Not sure why vargs don't bite walls off either.

It seems mods that make the game easymode like Extra stack / slots are looked down upon (with reason and I agree) but breaking the bosses with walls seems okay?

[Tapirus]

8 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

They'll go around walls instead of breaking them down if they can.

Becuase the point of the Hound is find the target (you) and then kill.

And as Viktor 234 said: If the all mobs prioritize his attacks on walls, that could be abused by the players.

[OMERICA]

*I can't stress this enough* DO NOT CHANGE THE GAME BECAUSE OF SOME CHEESY PEOPLE. They will always find a way. Unless it breaks YOUR  gameplay and YOUR experience, let them be. Everyone can play however they want to play. Even then, just ban them. Klei made this mistake with Willow. Because some people burn other bases, Klei made Willow a more useless character by removing her fire resistance. What happened after? Well, they kept burning. So pls don't expect changes to the game because of some cheesy or annoying people. They will always be like that. Enjoy your game and be kind to each other.  End of the day we just want to have fun.

[Skrzelik]

The moment every mobs starts attacking walls to get to you in straight line makes them kind of useless. Personally I don't mind abusing AI path finding around walls, especially when I'm soloing bee queen as it's still one of the most reasonable and less cheassy ways. That being said I wouldn't mind fixing enemies getting stucked between 2 structures

[Viktor234]

55 minutes ago, hl3bekliyenadam said:

Klei made this mistake with Willow. Because some people burn other bases, Klei made Willow a more useless character by removing her fire resistance.

As much as I understand, Klei changed Willow because she was too strong in PvP (Fire Immunity) and nobody wanted to have an insane Willow in the base (randomly light a small Fire at her feet at 60 or less Sanity). And even now she isn't useless at all because she has a portable Fire Pit & the only companion ingame who can tank Shadow Creatures besides characters. Also her con to freeze when being insane is pretty useful for Summer.

[MondayNight]

The more I read these forums and what random people (with generous doses of Dunning–Kruger bias from both ends of said spectrum) have to say the more I realize the rather obvious thing: no matter what you do as a developer, every time there will be unsatisfied clients. Also the blatant exaggerations and over subjectivity based on half-or-less baked ideas.

 

Let's take this from another perspective: remember when a pretty big-and-vocal number of people demanded the fences from DST for DS?

Then ask yourself what is the purpose of walls - to keep things in-or-out?!

 

This wall mechanic - as others have pointed out above - can be "abused" either way: like is now or as efficient bait for mini-/boss mobs too.

And if removed completely how are we suppose to pen stuff (or decorate dare I say for the ones of us into aesthetic-yet-functional building)? Plus a survival game in which you cannot even build basic barricades?! If anything the walls in DS/T are rather weak in stopping pretty much anything.

[Well-met]

46 minutes ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

The more I read these forums and what random people (with generous doses of Dunning–Kruger bias from both ends of said spectrum) have to say the more I realize the rather obvious thing: no matter what you do as a developer, every time there will be unsatisfied clients. Also the blatant exaggerations and over subjectivity based on half-or-less baked ideas.

 

Let's take this from another perspective: remember when a pretty big-and-vocal number of people demanded the fences from DST for DS?

Then ask yourself what is the purpose of walls - to keep things in-or-out?!

 

This wall mechanic - as others have pointed out above - can be "abused" either way: like is now or as efficient bait for mini-/boss mobs too.

And if removed completely how are we suppose to pen stuff (or decorate dare I say for the ones of us into aesthetic-yet-functional building)? Plus a survival game in which you cannot even build basic barricades?! If anything the walls in DS/T are rather weak in stopping pretty much anything.

I don't think anyone even suggested to remove walls.

I just think all mobs and minions should attack walls since the point of a wall is to hold off threats temporarily, not conduct where opponents should go in an orderly line. I'm pretty sure AI still allows mobs to fight back players if they're being attacked during the process of munching a wall. Obviously players should always take priority first if the wall isn't directly blocking them off.

[TemporaryMan]

Or have a timer that counts until they get bored and attack walls for a little bit.  95% chase player, 5% attack walls, or something like that.  It'd be enough to break Vargs out of walled pens and wear out bee mazes over time.

 

@x0VERSUS1y it's not just software, either; genetic engineering gets this reaction too.  People throw a fit if GM plants are fertile and can cross-pollinate non-GM plants, but they'll also throw a fit over sterile GM plants with terminator genes.

[Sinister_Fang]

10 hours ago, Kynoox_ said:

It's your choice to use them or not

In an online environment, this excuse doesn't really work. Other people will use exploits, and those who don't are at a disadvantage.

[Maxposting]

15 hours ago, TemporaryMan said:

 break Vargs out of walled pens 

*uses antlion boulders cause they are better to remove, able to be moved somewhere else etc.*

[NSAiswatchingus]

13 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

In an online environment, this excuse doesn't really work. Other people will use exploits, and those who don't are at a disadvantage.

Disadvantaged in what way? It's not like an MMO where cheesing a boss can get you better gear to be used in PvP. Everyone tackles the content in their own way and eventually gets the same drops. Some player having 20 Houndius Shootius doesn't affect my gameplay experience in any way. 

[CarlZalph]

On 1/21/2019 at 6:11 AM, Viktor234 said:

• Enemies priorize attacking walls
  • walls can be abused as Target Dummies (Just place 1x wall for each Hound and they'll focus on the wall while ignoring you completly; Example: Placing walls around a cave entrance will make spawning bats to focus on walls instead of flying around but bats deal 0 damage on walls)
• Enemies priorize walking around walls
  • pathfinding can be abused with long walls & gates or structures (Example: Bee Queen)

There's a middle ground wherein the distance required to travel is a factor.

Enemies prioritize walls if the required distance to travel to the target exceeds some threshold.

[TemporaryMan]

8 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

*uses antlion boulders cause they are better to remove, able to be moved somewhere else etc.*

Yep.  But it takes more time and effort to get those instead of walls.

[Sinister_Fang]

5 hours ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

Disadvantaged in what way? It's not like an MMO where cheesing a boss can get you better gear to be used in PvP. Everyone tackles the content in their own way and eventually gets the same drops. Some player having 20 Houndius Shootius doesn't affect my gameplay experience in any way. 

Let's say for example, someone builds a wall of statues around the moon base. Now, that does effect my gameplay experience if I want to use it without the statues. I don't like seeing exploits being used, but it's so commonplace now that it's hard to avoid. 

[NSAiswatchingus]

2 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Let's say for example, someone builds a wall of statues around the moon base. Now, that does effect my gameplay experience if I want to use it without the statues. I don't like seeing exploits being used, but it's so commonplace now that it's hard to avoid. 

So somebody came into your world, harvested hundreds of rocks, surrounded your moon pedestal with statues, and you didn't stop them? 

Or are you upset about somebody having a different play style than you in a public server? 

[Sinister_Fang]

26 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

So somebody came into your world, harvested hundreds of rocks, surrounded your moon pedestal with statues, and you didn't stop them? 

Or are you upset about somebody having a different play style than you in a public server? 

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make. The "If you don't like it, then don't use it" excuse doesn't work in a multiplayer game because even if you don't use it, others will. And it can effect you that way. 

[MondayNight]

45 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make. The "If you don't like it, then don't use it" excuse doesn't work in a multiplayer game because even if you don't use it, others will. And it can effect you that way. 

By far the most common strat I see regarding Moon Pedestal event is the fossils one. Then, for more organized Endless servers, the Marble Statues or a more costly End Tables. Walls one is very inefficient (as walls don't dub even as mediocre barricades). And doing said event with no protection for Pedestal whatsoever, more so if solo or in 2-people-team is frankly, as efficiency goes, the lowest one can go at it. Experienced players tend to streamline the hell out of everything so what you complain in, I presume, long-running servers is highly counterproductive - but hey, probably that's your style, power to ye and all that; but don't expect people wanting to productively farm meat, pig skin and/or moon rock to bend your way. Don't like this happening in pubs (or where you're playing), no biggie, hop another pub or be the first to convert your Star Caller into Moon Staff the try-hard simple-in-concept-yet-skilled-in-execution and intended way. Or play with like-minded friends maybe, yes?!

[NSAiswatchingus]

I guess I'm confused how you're being forced to play with people you don't want to or aren't playing the way you want to. 

Yeah, it's a multiplayer game, but you're in control of the interactions you have.