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BOT Tuja

Your Character Balance Ideas

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BOT Tuja    31

Yes, I know that there are at least a 1000 discussions of them, but I don't care.

Give me all your Balance ideas, all of them!
The good ones, the bad ones.
The hard to implement ones, the simple ones.
The ones that make sense, and the ones that don't.
The OP ones, and the stupid ones.

Give me your Idea on how Willow should be reworked, how Wicker's sleep problems are bad, and how Wes should be nerfed.

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Philsam    293
21 minutes ago, BOT Tuja said:

Yes, I know that there are at least a 1000 discussions of them, but I don't care.

Give me all your Balance ideas, all of them!
The good ones, the bad ones.
The hard to implement ones, the simple ones.
The ones that make sense, and the ones that don't.
The OP ones, and the stupid ones.

Give me your Idea on how Willow should be reworked, how Wicker's sleep problems are bad, and how Wes should be nerfed.

Woodie was shot in DST

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__IvoCZE__    8538
34 minutes ago, BOT Tuja said:

Wes should be nerfed.

give him 1 health point , 0.00001x damage multiplier , 50x hunger multiplier and make his balloons have spikes poking from them, constantly triggering nearby balloon explosions.

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Sinister_Fang    9343

Oh boy, an opportunity to talk about Maxwell's duelists? It's been a while, so I'll take it!

I think it would be neat to see the duelists copy the player's kiting patterns. So normally if the player isn't attacking, then they would try to stay out of attacking distance. However if you attack something, then they'll also go in for an attack with you. This would give the player more control over their agro so they don't just instantly attack anything that tries to hit Maxwell himself.

Now for their biggest issue: defense. Firstly, they will not draw agro from anything by attacking. Combined with their mimicry of Maxwell's attacks, this means agro stays on the player. This makes kiting easier (as enemies aren't trying to chase something actively running away) and it puts most of the danger on Maxwell himself rather then his puppets. To keep their kiting consistent with Maxwell, they should also receive any speed boosts Maxwell himself has.

Overall, I think these changes would put them in a more usable state without making players overly reliant on them doing everything for them.

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Philsam    293
5 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Oh boy, an opportunity to talk about Maxwell's duelists? It's been a while, so I'll take it!

I think it would be neat to see the duelists copy the player's kiting patterns. So normally if the player isn't attacking, then they would try to stay out of attacking distance. However if you attack something, then they'll also go in for an attack with you. This would give the player more control over their agro so they don't just instantly attack anything that tries to hit Maxwell himself.

Now for their biggest issue: defense. Firstly, they will not draw agro from anything by attacking. Combined with their mimicry of Maxwell's attacks, this means agro stays on the player. This makes kiting easier (as enemies aren't trying to chase something actively running away) and it puts most of the danger on Maxwell himself rather then his puppets. To keep their kiting consistent with Maxwell, they should also receive any speed boosts Maxwell himself has.

Overall, I think these changes would put them in a more usable state without making players overly reliant on them doing everything for them.

They would be more powerful, see too much face bosses

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GenomeSquirrel    924
1 hour ago, Atkvin said:

Additionally, she will lose the ability to hold even her Lighter once she is freezing, making her incredibly vulnerable on her own in Winter - forcing her to immediately start or get to a campfire or rely on somebody else to start a fire for her.

You went from slightly worse than Wilson, to much weaker than Wes with this one line.

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PanAzej    2015

Woodie: Remove sanity drain during Werebeaver phase, instead make the wood meter drain faster. Filling it to full changes you back, meanwhile leaving it to drop to zero will also change you back, but with -50% to each stat (health, sanity) and makes you groggy. Maybe let him eat pinecones to restore wood meter?

Werebeaver is just really not worth it, it needs to suck less. Because, y'know, MAXWELL EXISTS.

Wes: Buff max balloons count per Wes.

Webber: Make it so that you targetting a mob makes your "friends" target it, not attacking.

Maxwell: Remove Shadow Duelist, give us a Shadow Gatherer.

Winona: Make her more interesting/special. She's a handywoman, why not let her repair armor with her pseudo-sewing kit?

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PI Bot    13
1 hour ago, Atkvin said:

"Willow balance idea"

As someone who plays Willow, I thinks these balance ideas seem poorly thought out.

For your first point, it would honestly do very little to fix the problem you want it to. Torches are basically the cheapest item in the game, so Willow was more a griefer character due to her old immunity to fire. It made running around like an idiot lighting everything on fire extremely safe. Your change to its ability to light fires would also just make it get dropped for a torch ever faster and would hurt new players that would use it's long durability to help them stay warm in winter.

I kinda see what your trying to get at for your second point, there isn't any kind of character that can boost their allies sanity. However, what you have is a bit too strong, and I don't think that kind of skill would really fit with Willow's character. Also the sanity buff for crafting campfires would have to be pretty big to ever make it worth it.

I'll admit your Bernie idea isn't too bad though.

Your downside for Willow though is probably the worst idea. Considering your idea for the lighter, this would basically force Willow to never travel underground until much later in the game. It also would make traveling at night much more risky since you would have to give up your most important equipment slot, your hat, in order to see and do much of anything.

Your last point is also a pretty bad idea since players trying to move around during winter would be forced to stop and sit around campfires all night so they don't die. Especially since their lighter won't keep them warm or reliably protect them from darkness.

I think your trying too hard to make Willow a more cooperative character that uses her items constantly. A lot of your ideas also tend to work against each other and harm the character's total strengths.

 

 

What I would like to see for a Willow buff is that any fires she lights are stronger. So her lighter, torches, and campfires would burn hotter and longer. Maybe even make the fire staff's flames do more damage.

For other balance changes, I'd like to see a lot of the usual stuff, better duelists for Maxwell, a better Werebeaver, a consistent Wolfgang, and a more interesting Winona.

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Lakurius    549
Spoiler
16 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Oh boy, an opportunity to talk about Maxwell's duelists? It's been a while, so I'll take it!

I think it would be neat to see the duelists copy the player's kiting patterns. So normally if the player isn't attacking, then they would try to stay out of attacking distance. However if you attack something, then they'll also go in for an attack with you. This would give the player more control over their agro so they don't just instantly attack anything that tries to hit Maxwell himself.

Now for their biggest issue: defense. Firstly, they will not draw agro from anything by attacking. Combined with their mimicry of Maxwell's attacks, this means agro stays on the player. This makes kiting easier (as enemies aren't trying to chase something actively running away) and it puts most of the danger on Maxwell himself rather then his puppets. To keep their kiting consistent with Maxwell, they should also receive any speed boosts Maxwell himself has.

Overall, I think these changes would put them in a more usable state without making players overly reliant on them doing everything for them.

 

Shadow duelists already are super strong cuz they allow you to do the fastest and cheapest bq kill : ( fight me >: (

 

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Szczuku    14717
2 minutes ago, Lakurius said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Shadow duelists already are super strong cuz they allow you to do the fastest and cheapest bq kill : ( fight me >: (

They are terrible and only useful if you want to farm nightmare fuel. Also if you're trolling then stop

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Lakurius    549
Just now, Szczuku said:

They are terrible and only useful if you want to farm nightmare fuel. Also if you're trolling then stop

I'm not trolling, they're just much better than you think

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RatherAzure    29

I kind of wrote an entire essay about why Willow right now is broken and I guess I'll sum the points up here.

  1. Willow's three mechanics clash with her fourth. Her low sanity, her sanity control and Bernie suggests she could be insane and farming shadow monsters like one-thirds of the time but everything is cool because she can bail herself out. Except her fourth mechanic of freezing while insane pretty much is: "Yeah, you should probably not be insane. Ever".
  2. Willow's items are too expensive and don't have much yield. Bernie lasts 1.5 minutes only against three shadow monsters of one player. Which makes me think Bernie was not intended to be a shadow monster farming tool but rather, a "oh god get them off me GET THEM OFF IM TRYING TO GET IN THE FUCKIGN TENT BUT IT WON'T LET ME GET THEM OFF" tool. And he costs beard hair? Beefalo wool? These are not items that I casually just have lying around, but rather, items I have to chase down.
  3. Willow's items are too expensive and don't have much yield. Part 2. Willow's lighter is useful for up to the first five days until it is outshone (literally!) by the torch and later, the lantern. Its only saving grace, that is the ability to cook with the lighter is restricted to Willow and Willow only. Why? Wigfrid can distribute helmets. Winona can distribute trusty tape. Why not Willow?
  4. Willow's fire resistance is an iffy topic. A bunch of Willows were setting fire to bases in 2015 and people were complaining and Klei decided to do something about it. Apparently changing fire immunity to fire resistance was gonna do anything. A torch can be crafted by any other character, and they'd be just as effective. As a side effect, the fire resistance kind of ruined the OG Willow strat of hugging a burning tree to regain sanity. I guess the overheating mechanic did that as well but that's besides the point.

So how should Willow be balanced?

  1. Remove the freezing while insane mechanic. Like that's it. She's a pretty good character except her one disadvantage kind of annihilated her advantages. Make it so that she can't keep warm, in Winter or when 100% wet. Just, -5, -10 or -15 degrees off her normal body temperature in Winter and scaled according to her wetness meter. I kind of like it in a way because Willow is usually seen alongside Wilson, who holds the champion status for the highest amount of insulation points at any one time. And there's Willow who appears to have a negative insulation factor and resorts to burning things to keep her temperatures up.
  2. Bernie's durability should be cranked up. 5000HP, 10000HP? Dare I say, Infinite HP? Well whatever the case, 1000HP is too low and gets outright deleted when up against merely three shadow monsters. Maybe balance higher HP with effectiveness of shadow monster aggression. Maybe have it so that it doesn't attract all the shadow monsters but only 3 or 5 and keeps them there indefinitely, or at least until it dies.
  3. Willow's lighter should be accessible to everyone. That is: the cooking functionality. This is a team based game. There's no reason why nobody else can use Willow's lighter.
  4. Her fire resistance should be removed and replaced by fire immunity. This alone would be her "advantage" because she'd be the only character capable of standing inside the Klaus fire attack and actually having a use of DFly's magma pools. Keep in mind that this is not immunity to overheating but to fire only. Which is strange, if you think about it, isn't fire just ultra extreme overheating?
  5. So Willow has been marked as the "griefer" of the team due to spawning with a lighter in her inventory. That's a bad image for her and I'm sure there are many Willow mains who are actively trying to change that. I suggest giving Willow the ability to put out fire with her bare hands. That way, we can remove this "griefer" connotation with Willow herself. Too overpowered? Yeah maybe. How about a -5 sanity penalty because she did just murder a fire?

Mechanics that probably shouldn't be added but I thought it was funny/cool.

  1. I loved the idea of Hearthsfire Crystals in The Forge. Just imagine Willow yeeting her lighter at an enemy and watching it blow up dealing damage based on the durability left. That's the fuel inside the lighter. More fuel, bigger boom, right?
  2. There's all these characters that are like "oh, I can grow a beard so I wont freeze in Winter." or "oh, I can overcharge myself and I won't freeze in Winter" but the second Summer starts, they're all even-steven because nobody has a natural resistance to heat. Wait, thematically, we do, and its Willow. Maybe invulnerability to overheating only when her sanity is above 85%?

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HereBeJimbo    376
21 minutes ago, RatherAzure said:
  • So Willow has been marked as the "griefer" of the team due to spawning with a lighter in her inventory. That's a bad image for her and I'm sure there are many Willow mains who are actively trying to change that. I suggest giving Willow the ability to put out fire with her bare hands. That way, other Willows would be a direct counter to herself. That way, we can remove this "greifer" connotation with Willow herself. Too overpowered? Yeah maybe. How about a -5 sanity penalty because she did just murder a fire?

Huh. Neat.

 

I second this idea. 

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Tumalu    547

They actually buffed Willow's insanity chills awhile after putting them in. (It was an easy update to miss) She -already- can't freeze unless she's really wet or it's Winter. So it's actually not that bad! Plus it's sort of summer resist...? That being said she still does fairly little, I don't even consider her lighter worth carrying most of the time even if it was infinite, bernie is usually only relevant for fuelweaver, etc.

...and, last I checked, can't anyone use her lighter? It's just that it's not really -worth- using. I don't think other characters can cook with it, but that ability barely even matters after the first ten days.

I think it'd be nice if she could use her lighter to plant down her old insanity fires on command via right-click, for a small sanity cost. Just make their duration a little longer so it's like almost-free weak campfires for working at night with. Or spam them to deal a lot of burning damage to an enemy. Sounds good to me. Fits her theme perfectly, adds lots of fire to your life, easy working at night or offensive fire use, go insane at will by BURNING A FIELD DOWN, etc.

Still not really sure what removing fire immunity was supposed to do. It's not like it's even remotely harder to grief without the immunity.

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RatherAzure    29
2 minutes ago, Tumalu said:

...and, last I checked, can't anyone use her lighter? It's just that it's not really -worth- using. I don't think other characters can cook with it, but that ability barely even matters after the first ten days.

When I said "accessible to everyone" I meant, the cooking function. Anyone can pick it up and use it for lighting but honestly, why would they? And I kinda agree? Its usefulness as an item kinda goes through the floor after the first 10 days but there is still some use like Webbers aren't gonna set up a fire to cook the one monster meat they found out in the wild. They can just cook it on the spot and enjoy cooked monster meat instead of eating it raw. Or Wolfgang can just pick up meat, cook it and eat it mid-fight to keep his mighty form. There are uses, but it's severely limited seeing how it's limited to Willow at the moment.

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My ideas for Woodie and Willow and Maxwell:

Woodie:
-Trees he plants should grow faster, so that in the long game his resource gathering abilities can rival maxwells. Additionally he should have like 30% chance to get an extra log from every tree he chops down.
- Plants he fertilizes should be more resistant to disease, he kinda seems to have a theme with planting trees and getting sanity so i suppose gardening could be his thing.

- I dont really have ideas for the werebeaver form to be honest as theres a lot of different ways to approach it.

Willow:

- Fuel is twice as effective for fires.
- The lighter should be sharable with friends but it shouldnt act as a worse torch anymore.

- The lighter can still cook anything in the inventory, can be used to slightly warm up the user and can turn logs into charcoal in the inventory.

- Maybe it could be used to light up certain weapons which would make their attacks a bit stronger (25% maybe?) but also light creatures on fire. This buff would only last for a few seconds. Holding a weapon that is lit up would also warm the player. I thought of this because if Willow is the "fire character" than she should be able to use fire for combat purposes too but this might be a bit too strong.

- Downsides to do with freezing and wetness being much worse for her, didnt really think about them as she really needs upsides to be honest.

Maxwell:

- Make shadow duelists similar to the forge ones. They dont exist as a mob anymore but show some kind of indication on the HUD that they are with you. After Dealing a certain amount of the damage the same animation should play that plays in the forge doing some burst damage. The more duelists you have the higher and more frequent is the damage they do. This way Max can dedicate all his sanity to become a fighter character or fill in the role of gatherer as he does now.

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Terra B Welch    5697

I think for willow she should get her fire immunity back and make her lighter infinite again.

The lighter should only be infinite though if a willow is holding it.

I know she was nerfed for griefer reasons, but tbh the nerfs aren't really stopping griefers in the end anyway.

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Lakurius    549

This hurts me so much. Why does everyone think that maxwell's duelists are bad. You just gotta be more creative, there are so many cool strats (some of them are extremely op) that require shadow duelists : (

Spoiler

I know what i'm talking about, i'm a 3k hours maxwell main klei pls dont change the duelists : (

 

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Tumalu    547
10 minutes ago, Lakurius said:

This hurts me so much. Why does everyone think that maxwell's duelists are bad. You just gotta be more creative, there are so many cool strats (some of them are extremely op) that require shadow duelists : (

I am legitimately curious! Might be slightly offtopic, but can you indulge some shadow duelist strats? They're interesting because they regen HP very quickly, but they also die in like 2 hits to most enemies, so it's a fine line... and it's already kinda scary to fight non-trivial enemies as Max.

 

Also, the idea of Willow getting more fuel value for burning things in fires sounds decent.

 

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I've seen some truly wonderful suggestions concerning Willow, but to wrap it up for our little pyromaniac, I think her lighter should also function as a miniature firepit or lantern when set on the ground. It would have the same range as it is when held, providing just as much heat and providing some much needed convenience when working in the night with another tool in the early days.

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Dalek    249

Buff girls! Wigfrid, Willow and Winona are most broken characters in game, loose by all stats to others. Wigfrid is supposed to be a good warrior - Wolfgang can do it better, Willow supposed to be a wet dream of pyro-mains - instead we have a weak uselles moron, and, finally, Winona - she could be a nice handy-woman addition to the meta, but actually she’s just a faceless piece of code without any useful perks. 

- Wigfrid

The relationship between her and Wolfgang are the same as between Woody and Maxwell: she is just not so good as him in combat. To change: remove the battle-spear damage nerf for other characters, add damage-buff only for her, let’s say, 10% for other weapons, remove hp- and sanity-gain from dead foes. 

- Willow

She’s just useless. I think, devs could add mechanics from Forge - damage-buff for fire staff to make it not so useless, as it is now, may be add meteor-attack like in SW, and remove sanity-drain for her. Also, her lighter is also quite useless, I think, they should bring back its singlplayer version.

 

- Winona

LET THE TAPE FIX ARMOR. Or, probably, the whole new fixing-tab would be a good idea, like Wicker’s book-tab. The fixing-things for clothes,  armor, weapons, amulets and staffs. And nerf her stats, really, she needs some weaknesses. Also, may be the dodging-Charlie mechanic should work the exact opposite way - let Charlie hit her faster, than other characters, in the end, she knows her sister weak-spots very well.

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Tumalu    547

Oh god yeah, the original quotes for Winona's tape implied her mending tape fixed things liked armor, but when she released the quotes were changed and it was nerfed into a sewing kit. It's sliiightly more silk-efficient and doesn't need a hounds tooth, but that's practically nothing. Mending armor makes it actually unique and useful.

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