Dead_eye

Need some help with airscrubber setup

Recommended Posts

Dead_eye    0

So i like to build my main setups for a base in a tight space. Waste handling and oxygen generation in one space with cooling included.

Beforce the airscrubber fix i could fit everything in the attached setup, but it doesn't work anymore. There are just 12 NG gens connected to the 4 vents and they are overpressuring constantly. Can i fix this with just more spacing or is something wrong with the piping setup?

 

oni1.jpg

oni2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Townkill    20

While the location of the bottom 2 vents isn't optimal, i doubt that it's the cause of your problem.12 ng generators should produce  990  g/s of co2. 4 air scrubbers should be able to process 1200g/s. vents being overpressure would seem to indicate it's likely that your air scrubbers aren't operating at maximum capacity. I would check to make sure they have a continuous water supply and that they're not losing power(transformers powering a 960w circuit will frequently have power interuptions if theres not a battery on the consumer side as well).  

It's also possible that one or more of your air scrubbers are still processing a large amount of co2 in storage from pre-patch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Drach    2

Assuming I am not mistaken, they hot fixed the transformer issue recently, although I haven't restarted to see if it is actually fixed. If they haven't actually fixed it Townkill is correct and you should put a battery after your transformer to stop any brownouts. I would definitely check your water supply/pump, and the liquid piping system for confused packets. I could potentially see a problem with your system with the atmo switches, in general a vent will over pressurize at 1800g, if enough packets (at a large enough size) came in through those 4 vents before the atmo switch turned on the vents might over pressurize, and lead to a repeating cycle of over pressurizing, switches turning on, CO2 being cleared, gas pumping in, and over pressurization. You might try running the system without the atmo switches for a bit and seeing what happens. It wouldn't be the worst idea in my opinion to have a CO2 disposal system with more room in it I also like to use a bit o water so my vents can't over pressurize.

Be warned you can use your CO2 scrubber to create a vacuum which will rapidly heat up your scrubbers, so be careful.

Edited by Drach
warning

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whispershade    50
1 hour ago, Townkill said:

the atmo switches are totally unnecessary now that scrubbers dont consume power while idle

 

They are useful in preventing the scrubbers from creating vacuum/near vacuum. Which can instigate them overheating.

Regarding the scrubber problem of the original topic. I might suggest posting a picture of the liquid pipe overlay.  I noticed one of my scrubbers operating at reduced capacity and I think it is related to not enough output pipe. I haven't yet gone in to fix it to confirm that was the issue, though. Since I plan on relocating my Natgas generation altogether.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dead_eye    0

Thanks for the replies. Well the scrubbersinfo shows me that they all have 19-20 kg of water stored, so i don't think it's the liquid piping. But i'll post a screenshot of it later. They all hang on 1 water geyser and they are currently the only water users because i've deactivated the airproduction on this plant.

They've the usual 5kg of co2 stored but nothing more, the pre patch airscrubbers are in another nearly similar plant (with the same problems) next to 4 * 15 t of bottled up co2. I'm so not touching this atm!

I only see the scrubbers going from 1000g/s water used to 666g/s used every 5-10 seconds (on top speed) for like 2-3 seconds. I thought it may be a space problem, because of the tight spaceing ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Risu    187
1 hour ago, Dead_eye said:

They've the usual 5kg of co2 stored but nothing more, the pre patch airscrubbers are in another nearly similar plant (with the same problems) next to 4 * 15 t of bottled up co2. I'm so not touching this atm!

That's normal.

1 hour ago, Dead_eye said:

I only see the scrubbers going from 1000g/s water used to 666g/s used every 5-10 seconds (on top speed) for like 2-3 seconds.

Considering you're running at top speed and the time window for the averages is 3 seconds (as you noticed),
it is expected that it skips a game tick randomly as it is on a real time timer (prone to lag) and not the game timer.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also in the recent scrubber hotfix, I think they changed it so it only produces 1k of poll water based on how much co2 it consumed. So the animation will only go off every few seconds in low pressure areas but it'll still be consuming co2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dead_eye    0

Ok here are the pictures:

First one is a better gas piping layout. Yesterdays screenshot was without the direction symbols.

Second one the liquid pipe layout and the third a shot of the 12 NG Gen's and their 2 exhaust pipes (both also marked in red on the first Screenshot).

The room is as you can see pretty much under high pressure and i just got the right moment with the airscrubber working with just 666 g/s a few ticks later it's again @ 1000 g/s

oni3.jpg

oni4.jpg

oni5.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Townkill    20

are you sure you're not getting pipe blocked from that liquid setup?  that polluted water line looks a bit shady

edit: to clarify when you do a pipe bridge, any liquid flowing thru the pipe its connected to is generally given priority, so only the air scrubber in the top left would be guaranteed to run nonstop

edit2: your carbon dioxide piping from your gas generators suffers from the same defect, but this would cause your ng gens to not run at capacity, it wouldnt affect your scrubbers. 

Edited by Townkill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whispershade    50

Yeah, the top two scrubbers might not have enough pipe to work smoothly.  They might require another segment as a buffer before the bridge to make sure they don't get backed up. You could potentially fix it without even opening up if you just move the pipe bridges over one and add one more pipe segment to the output of the top scrubbers along the insulated tile. (I don't think  this is it actually)

Actually it might be the bottom two that are the issue with the junction which would require it to be opened up.  They will not merge properly in that setup and I think the output will perceive even just a the 1kg liquid as a full pipe as they each take turns trying to get onto the pipe bridge they'll each run at about half capacity, I believe.

Edited by Whispershade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Townkill    20

The best way to fix it is to remove all 3 bridges at the top and just use normal piping( the 4th one connecting the bottom two scrubbers most likely isn't a problem, but since i haven't extensively tested using bridges in this way, i couldnt say with 100% certainty). but yeah it shouldnt even need to be opened. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whispershade    50
3 hours ago, Townkill said:

The best way to fix it is to remove all 3 bridges at the top and just use normal piping( the 4th one connecting the bottom two scrubbers most likely isn't a problem, but since i haven't extensively tested using bridges in this way, i couldnt say with 100% certainty). but yeah it shouldnt even need to be opened. 

It depends on the flow if the pipe they're bridging into.  The bridges will actually handle piping into low capacity piping better because they'll merge with the contents.  But if the pipe is at full capacity then it'll never see priority and get blocked up. But normal junctions cause delay, too.  If two standard pipes are merging onto a pipe they'll trade off priority.  If there isn't enough piping to absorb the output without taking up the immediate output pipe it'll trick the scrubber into thinking it is blocked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Townkill    20
1 hour ago, Whispershade said:

It depends on the flow if the pipe they're bridging into.  The bridges will actually handle piping into low capacity piping better because they'll merge with the contents.  But if the pipe is at full capacity then it'll never see priority and get blocked up. But normal junctions cause delay, too.  If two standard pipes are merging onto a pipe they'll trade off priority.  If there isn't enough piping to absorb the output without taking up the immediate output pipe it'll trick the scrubber into thinking it is blocked.

we're talking about a very particular case here.  these pipes will always be 1kg packets of polluted water. a standard junction will functionally be the same as adding a segment and bridge but wont visually obstruct whats going on, will require less material,  and 3 less build orders. Additionally  the air scrubbers will continue to function even if more devices inputting polluted water are added. There are situations where adding a pipe bridge will increase functionality, this is not one of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Townkill    20

Was beginning to suspect that the pumbing might not be the issue so i tested a similar setup to see if it actually was the problem. Seems like the actual problem might just be that hes using a water purifier and theyre buggy as *** and never operate at full capacity.  the stated processing speed is 5000g/s but the actual speed seems to be between 2000 and 3000g/s which wouldnt be enough to handle water from 4 scrubbers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whispershade    50

I suspect strongly it is the junction for the bottom two that might be slowing down the effective operational capacity.  The three bridges at the top should operate seamlessly.  Between the 4 scrubbers have a max output of 4kg/s and the bridges should handle the merges without issue. But if you see he's clicked on the lower right scrubber and it is emitting 666.7 grams of polluted water while also having the contents of 1000g of polluted water. The two elbows pipes into the middle bridge are very likely competing for space on the bridge instead of properly merging together.  You can see how they're not on the same beat as the lower left one has polluted water transitioning to the corner segment and the lower right does not.  I believe the junction is forcing the pipe to try and interleave the packets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whispershade    50
5 minutes ago, Townkill said:

Was beginning to suspect that the pumbing might not be the issue so i tested a similar setup to see if it actually was the problem. Seems like the actual problem might just be that hes using a water purifier and theyre buggy as *** and never operate at full capacity.  the stated processing speed is 5000g/s but the actual speed seems to be between 2000 and 3000g/s which wouldnt be enough to handle water from 4 scrubbers

Gaps in the output flow of the polluted water would normally suggest there's still room in the pipe, but I've noticed some visual bugs regarding pipe contents so I can't be sure.  The easier way to know is just to see if the output contents are approaching capacity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Townkill    20

i tested that exact piping setup with a liquid vent and it worked at capacity. I then noticed that theres a water purifier in the bottom right of the picture that looks like it might be handling all the polluted water(though cant tell for sure) so i tested the setup with a water purifier and it quickly backed up.  Im fairly certain at this point that thats the culprit  but id need a save file to know for certain

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dead_eye    0

No the water purifiers are disabled and where also only used to deliver clean water (the 3rd gyser was overpressured from po2 and didn't vent), you can ignore them. I'll try to move the Piping a bit maybe that will switch it up a gear.

Btw: All 4 airscrubbers have the occassional 666 g/s slow down. So it must be something that bothers all 4 of them equally. The output pipes basically run in a few loops through the hydogen so they could cool the airproduction (turned off atm) and then simply get dropped in the watertank below the natural gas gens in the last picture (and then pumped by a second pump cooling the power plant and dumped into fertelizer makers). There should be no backing up, the Pipes only have volumes of 1 - 5 kg of poluted water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dead_eye    0

Ok redid some of the pipes but even with a direct pipe link out the top left airscrubber (the only one with an output in the screenshot) i get a hickup 666 g/s ... I just don't know, maybe they really need more space around them to get a more constant co2 supply?!?

oni8.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Townkill    20

could you post the save? 

the 666 g/s hickup will always happen, its related to the timer used for air scrubbers. But, You're only producing  990 g/s co2 and your max capacity is 1200g/s, that would mean you'd have to lose at least 18.5% capacity somewheres for the room to overpressurize..  even if the hickup were to happen every 5 ticks, thats still less than a 7% loss. literally more than half of the ticks need to be at that reduced amount to reduce capacity enough that the vents will overpressurize - there must be something else going on here.

 

edit: keep in mind that even when you resolve the problem you have 2 long pipes full of 1000g/s co2, it will take the system time to catch up.

Edited by Townkill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dead_eye    0

Well let the above piping setup run for about 4 cycles that didn't do the trick but i then just deactivated 2 natural gas gens each for a cycle to get rid of the jam. And it seems to be working now. Gaspressure is below 1000g and sinking (with all 12 Gen's on)! Thanks for the help. I'll attach the save game anyway.

The Intergalactic Abyss.sav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Townkill    20

yeah your air scrubber system seems to be running fine now,  you might want to consider redoing the piping on the ng generators as well,  since theyre not running at capacity either.  Theres 2 issues there, one is that valves should be feeding the generators, not gas bridges. the other is too many bridges and not enough pipe segment on the outfeed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dead_eye    0

Ok said that to early. 10 cycles later i have one pipe getting cleared and the other line backed up ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Townkill    20

running your save for 5 cycles,   power issues started shutting down the airscrubbers, among other things

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now