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asveron    5

Hi guys, I'm quite perplexed by certain characteristics of water flow in ONI.

Summary: Why is it that situation 1 works, and situation 2 causes the shower to turn on for a few seconds before shutting off?

A7TFCPT.png

Details: Ok so originally I dismissed it as a bug when replicants would hop in a shower, turn it on for a few seconds, then hop out. I googled ONI shower bug to see if I can find out how to avoid it. The first answer I found from people was that some people believed that shower works more often if water is pumped downwards because there is more water pressure. However after doing some experimentation, water does not seem to flow down wards on it's own at all. It doesn't seem to care which direction it goes.Water just follows a pipe until it finds a split then switches back and forth between the two.

Then I thought perhaps the toilet is causing backflow and blocking the shower. However in situation 1, more backflow happens but it doesn't seem to matter as long as there's still somewhere for the water to go. Then my final assumption currently is that perhaps the pipe being destroyed deactivates the toilet, which is causing the problem. Somehow with both the toilet and the shower attached, only 1 of them will work. Even if the pipes are empty. So does that mean they try to reserve a free path before actually moving? That's a bit strange... I've had both pipes be completely empty with a viable vent built on top. The vent is not yet built here because I've replayed this day many times over to experiment with different situations. As long as both of them are connected it doesn't seem to work any longer.

Edited by asveron

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Kasuha    412

Liquid in pipes is transported by "peristaltics" of the pipe itself, it's not driven by the pump or pressure. The contents is pushed "from outputs to inputs". A piece of pipe that has both inputs and outputs attached to both ends does not know which way to send its contents and that's where all problems start.

The pipe in your picture should be fine with both the green and red part until the input at the top of the screen displayed as not yet built is added. Then the green part will have both inputs and outputs on both ends and it will get confused.

When you need to add outputs/inputs in the middle of the pipe and can't avoid their interleaving, you can always add a bridge or fully open valve that will divide the pipe into two with well defined inputs and outputs and flow direction. In the following image, the top pipe will work, the middle may not work, and the bottom will work again.

n4NL040.png

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Cuzell    11

Seems like there is a bug on showering after latest hotfix.

As Asveron said, dupe will goes to showering but just a few second and leave from the shower with debuff 'grimmy' is still there.

You can see the polluted water goes out from the shower in the following image, it shows that the shower still functional but it seems like there is something interrupt the showering task.

shower bug.png

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Kasuha    412

There's also the 'too short pipe from output to joint' problem. It's something that will hopefully get improved in future releases but at present we have to deal with it.

Sometimes a pipe joint joining flow from two outputs into single pipe will interleave packets coming from the two branches, and will keep interleaving them even if the other branch is empty. That means the flow from that branch may get reduced to half, if that pipe is full, and the packet in the pipe segment right before the joint will stay for a second there. Then there's the problem common to most outputs but most noticed with showers, that most outputs will not put the contents to the pipe if there's a packet at the pipe segment over the output, even if it would be the same liquid and it would fit in the pipe together with the pipe contents. The shower (or in general the building) detects that as 'pipe blocked' status and will stop working for a second. In case of showers it means the dupe will exit the shower and eventually enter another. The easiest way to avoid this problem is to make the pipe branch before the joint at least one segment longer.

Below are three examples. The shower on the left may block, the middle one should work well. The right one is the safest, since through a bridge the packets will not wait or interleave but will directly merge with the collector pipe contents as long as it's not completely full.

j0yOqJB.png

Edited by Kasuha
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absimiliard    218

My setup is typically to run a single pipe under lavatories/showers with spurs up to each for inputs, then to use a bridge over that clean-water line for each output that connects to a single black-water line leading to a holding tank (or -- if you like -- to something needing polluted water for irrigation).  The outgoing connection to the bridges is only one segment long, and the bridging makes it obvious to the pipes how the flow ought to work.  It's moderately dense, so doesn't use too many tiles, and keeps exposed piping at a minimum compared to the my old setup which was clean water in from below and black-water up and out.

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asveron    5
3 hours ago, Kasuha said:

Liquid in pipes is transported by "peristaltics" of the pipe itself, it's not driven by the pump or pressure. The contents is pushed "from outputs to inputs". A piece of pipe that has both inputs and outputs attached to both ends does not know which way to send its contents and that's where all problems start.

The pipe in your picture should be fine with both the green and red part until the input at the top of the screen displayed as not yet built is added. Then the green part will have both inputs and outputs on both ends and it will get confused.

When you need to add outputs/inputs in the middle of the pipe and can't avoid their interleaving, you can always add a bridge or fully open valve that will divide the pipe into two with well defined inputs and outputs and flow direction. In the following image, the top pipe will work, the middle may not work, and the bottom will work again.

 

@KasuhaInteresting information, I'll be careful not to add multiple vents to multiple systems! That doesn't seem to be the problem though, if I add the red part, without finishing the extra vent on top, it will instantly brake the shower. I noticed that @Cuzell also has a sort of similar set up where the outputs of the toilet and shower is both connected to a single pipe. That specific setup, I've been testing by rearranging the pipes in this goundhog day, is what causes the shower problem. I think merging two sources into a single pipe doesn't bother any other machine because they can deal with a tiny delay in input/output and resume running. However, I think tiny occasional interruptions caused by merging of two pipes into one restarts the shower entirely in the recent hotfix. It's possible that this hotfix added the "feature" to let duplicants automatically stop showering when there's any interruption to the shower (otherwise the duplicants may wait infinitely in a truly broken shower system). As to why merging two sources into one pipe causes tiny interruptions at all, I still have no idea!

*extra info

I've also noticed that the interruptions start happening regardless of the existence of any liquid in any pipes in the first place. As soon as a toilet and shower's output is connected, these interruptions will start occurring. Ahh @Kasuha I read your second post more carefully and now I think that's what's breaking the shower.

**

Ah no the second suggestion doesn't work either. However, after testing some more, I noticed that the order of the outputs is what matters. If the output of the toilet enters the single pipe before the shower it'll stop working. If the output of the toilet goes after the shower's output it'll still work! If @Cuzell could change the order of his toilet and shower it'll probably work too! A previous colony of mine always had toilet output going after shower output into single pipe and always worked. I think reversing the order in the new colony is what broke it.

 

H3ihed2.png

 

Edited by asveron

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Cuzell    11
Quote

If @Cuzell could change the order of his toilet and shower it'll probably work too!

Thanks !! That really fix it.

So the output of shower should not have any following output from other building.

Anyway, it seems nonsense to me just swap the order of buildings to fix this. Hope devs will fix this soon.

shower fixed.png

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