A slightly refined Liquid O2 setup ?

[Lifegrow]

Hi all,

Just a quick update to show something I built on stream tonight - was the end of the current play-through (with the update coming in a few days it seemed wise) so we just messed around for the stream. Anyways, I decided to do something I've been tinkering with in my testing base - and it actually turned out really nice (in my humble opinion anyways!)

Very simple closed loop of -190~ hydrogen

Loops of wolframite liquid pipe (for added mass in the room)

Many wire bridges made of wolframite (again, added mass in the room)

It's bwerry cold inside

Looks cute in blue

But better in red  

 

Purely built to try combining some of the tips and tricks we know when it comes to transferring heat, I just thought it'd be a nice idea for the community and oni fans out there. Main focus was using wolframite/granite (along with cooled hydrogen) to give a 3-pronged attack as regards cooling/retaining cold to combat the input of P-O2. Works like a charm, barely any temperature change (although in fairness the P-O2 is coming in at like -15ish at current) - the system doesn't slow, temperature doesn't seem to increase hardly at all. Credit to "Goodgame Dota" for the idea of using empty liquid pipes for some additional "mass" in the room (I hadn't thought of that before - not sure if it's something i've missed on the forums), and much love to all of the oni community for being such clever sons of guns  

See you in the update guys  

-Life.

(p.s. not sure if the mods will mind me posting this or not - if you do kindly remove the link - but if you want to see it in action skip to the last 5 mins or so : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/144003448 - twitch wouldn't let me clip it    )

[AlexRou]

You're a little late for valentines day

[Lifegrow]

That's a hallmark day, share the love every day  

[AlexRou]

So who's the girl you're trying to impress?

[Lifegrow]

Her name is Bubbles..... she's dreamy  

[CantBreathe]

I'm going to browse through your video to find some answers:

How do you produce so much food?

How do you have 1000g of hydrogen moving quickly and smoothly in every pipe without it churning along very slowly?

Were you able to cool that high pressure hydrogen without it churning along and making that awful metal scraping sound?

Is all the added mass in the room to stop the hydrogen pipes from rapidly increasing temp when you introduce your hot gases?

Why -190 and not -240ish?

I read that piped liquid O2 should be used to liquefy gases instead of cool hydrogen gas. Why?

Thanks!

[Lifegrow]

7 hours ago, CantBreathe said:

I'm going to browse through your video to find some answers:

How do you produce so much food?

How do you have 1000g of hydrogen moving quickly and smoothly in every pipe without it churning along very slowly?

Were you able to cool that high pressure hydrogen without it churning along and making that awful metal scraping sound?

Is all the added mass in the room to stop the hydrogen pipes from rapidly increasing temp when you introduce your hot gases?

Why -190 and not -240ish?

I read that piped liquid O2 should be used to liquefy gases instead of cool hydrogen gas. Why?

Thanks!

Ok, let me try and answer systematically..

How do you produce so much food? 
The way I do it is just to have a net gain of food by having more than 4x planters per dupe of bristle blossoms. Don't harvest them manually, just let the food fall to the floor and store it in refrigerators in a sterile environment -or power them if you're not as lazy as me
Some prefer to just make mush bars - but meh, personal choice.

How do you have 1000g of hydrogen moving quickly and smoothly in every pipe without it churning along very slowly?
The valve handles the flow of gas - just empty 1-2 pipes of hydrogen (deconstruct them and rebuild) before you set your valve to pump (by altering the flow rate from 0-1kg/s) and it should tick along nicely.

Is all the added mass in the room to stop the hydrogen pipes from rapidly increasing temp when you introduce your hot gases?
Exactly what it's for - stops the temperature spikes in the room and gives an element of stability.

Why -190 and not -240ish?
Didn't need it to be -240ish, and also was somewhat limited by power available in the base - was trying to get this done before the end of stream  (it was a challenge run with lots of rules, namely "max of 2 manual generators"... Providing the room stays at a constant -190, everything else is overkill. 

I read that piped liquid O2 should be used to liquefy gases instead of cool hydrogen gas. Why?
I tried pumping liquid O2 around another build I made, however I found (and maybe I had done something wrong) that the influx of fresh P-O2, and the slight temperature change it brought, made my pipes occasionally boil and break. This lead to a room filled with "leaked" O2, which was something I wanted to avoid. You can try it yourself maybe and have better luck than I did, however I'm not sure what the advantage of it actually is. The aim is to keep the room as cold as possible, and maintain stability of the temperatures - whilst pumping as much gas as it can handle. This system hasn't warmed yet....

Hope this helps  

[Beowulfe]

2 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

Why -190 and not -240ish?
Didn't need it to be -240ish, and also was somewhat limited by power available in the base - was trying to get this done before the end of stream  (it was a challenge run with lots of rules, namely "max of 2 manual generators"... Providing the room stays at a constant -190, everything else is overkill. 

Just a follow up to this - Liquid oxygen freezes much sooner than Hydrogen as well (-219 degrees), so having it at -190 (or possibly slightly cooler) is actually a much better option, too. If you cool it down to -240, you will run into the occasional bit of frozen oxygen, which can reaaaaaaaaally wreak havoc with your system.

[Lifegrow]

Just now, Beowulfe said:

Just a follow up to this - Liquid oxygen freezes much sooner than Hydrogen as well (-219 degrees), so having it at -190 (or possibly slightly cooler) is actually a much better option, too. If you cool it down to -240, you will run into the occasional bit of frozen oxygen, which can reaaaaaaaaally wreak havoc with your system.

Indeed, solid oxygen is no use to anyone - except maybe a hatch for a pre-course palate cleanser...  

[Kasuha]

29 minutes ago, Beowulfe said:

Just a follow up to this - Liquid oxygen freezes much sooner than Hydrogen as well (-219 degrees), so having it at -190 (or possibly slightly cooler) is actually a much better option, too. If you cool it down to -240, you will run into the occasional bit of frozen oxygen, which can reaaaaaaaaally wreak havoc with your system.

Best option I found was to have main cooling pipe at -240 C, then a mesh floor with one layer of pipe at -190 C. Any solid oxygen that dropped from the cold pipe (there was literally rain of it when the pressure got low enough) was thawed by this warmer pipe. I never got a single piece of solid oxygen below that mesh floor and it was freezing much faster.

[Beowulfe]

2 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

Best option I found was to have main cooling pipe at -240 C, then a mesh floor with one layer of pipe at -190 C. Any solid oxygen that dropped from the cold pipe (there was literally rain of it when the pressure got low enough) was thawed by this warmer pipe. I never got a single piece of solid oxygen below that mesh floor and it was freezing much faster.

Yeah, this can work, though you need to be careful with it - if the oxygen has a surface to condense on (a wall, or a stepped floor, depending on your room setup), it can condense on the wall/floor before freezing. Last I tested it, if the oxygen condenses and then immediately freezes, it won't turn into a "dropped" piece of solid O2, it will turn into a terrain tile (one you have to dig out), which will then in turn cause your buildings to become buried and stop functioning.

If your room is setup to handle it, that could definitely work, but I generally find that the condensation speed difference between -240 and -205 degree hydrogen (for oxygen) isn't large enough to make managing potential solid blocks of O2 in inconvenient spots worthwhile. To each his own, though, definitely lots of different approaches, that's one of the reasons I love this game.

[Lifegrow]

5 minutes ago, Beowulfe said:

I generally find that the condensation speed difference between -240 and -205 degree hydrogen (for oxygen) isn't large enough to make managing potential solid blocks of O2 in inconvenient spots worthwhile. To each his own, though, definitely lots of different approaches, that's one of the reasons I love this game.

I'd go as far as to say the speed difference is near to nothing providing your room is stable enough to "remain" at -205. I think it's the spikes in temperature that often are the downfall in a system, be that too cold or too hot. 

In summary - bung a load of wolframite in your system and it'll play a lot nicer

[Kasuha]

20 minutes ago, Beowulfe said:

Last I tested it, if the oxygen condenses and then immediately freezes, it won't turn into a "dropped" piece of solid O2, it will turn into a terrain tile

Yeps I had this happening but nothing a dupe can't fix - unlike bubbler, this machine doesn't have to be hermetically sealed to work. And the terrain tile doesn't "snowball", it can work for a while with a few of them. I actually wonder if tiling the whole inside with ladders or maybe even mesh floors wouldn't prevent that happening.

[Lifegrow]

1 minute ago, Kasuha said:

Yeps I had this happening but nothing a dupe can't fix - unlike bubbler, this machine doesn't have to be hermetically sealed to work. And the terrain tile doesn't "snowball", it can work for a while with a few of them. I actually wonder if tiling the whole inside with ladders or maybe even mesh floors wouldn't prevent that happening.

It's a pretty big problem if it's a closed system  I know they don't have to be, but I prefer my builds maintenance free so I can wander off and forget about them. Filling the spaces with ladders, bridges, "valves" (lul) will definitely stop the tiles from forming, but so would managing your temperatures in the first place. The pros for having your gas at -240 are outweighed by the cons in my opinion, but as Beowulfe so rightly said - each to their own. This game would be pretty balls if we all did things the exact same way  

[m1chinn0m]

that build is cold hearted

[CantBreathe]

Thanks for your detailed reply. I'll try a system at -210 just before O2 freeze.

I really enjoyed your stream recording.

[Lifegrow]

1 hour ago, CantBreathe said:

Thanks for your detailed reply. I'll try a system at -210 just before O2 freeze.

I really enjoyed your stream recording.

You're more than welcome, good luck  

[Masterpintsman]

FYI: Systems that rely on the pipe/vent temperature bug (temperature of moving liquid/gas resetting instead of changing because of interaction with the outside) will break at some point in the future.

[Lifegrow]

7 hours ago, Masterpintsman said:

FYI: Systems that rely on the pipe/vent temperature bug (temperature of moving liquid/gas resetting instead of changing because of interaction with the outside) will break at some point in the future.

I know and I can't wait, i'm an advocate of not using "exploits" in my bases - this was just for a play around as it was the last vod of a 30ish hour playthrough  

[CantBreathe]

15 hours ago, Masterpintsman said:

FYI: Systems that rely on the pipe/vent temperature bug (temperature of moving liquid/gas resetting instead of changing because of interaction with the outside) will break at some point in the future.

I'm so annoyed by this statement ;\ It makes me feel like i've been cheating and therefore not actually winning; but I really love the cooling heating mechanic to manipulate gas states. I've just abandoned a long session because I took advantage of hydrogen cooling loop and mealwood uprooting.

I don't want to use exploits, so how am I supposed to cool geyser water for use in showers ect? Doesn't the ice biome degrade if used this way?

I was using cooled hydrogen to create ice to feed hatches over mesh tile. Hatches eat nearly 1000kg(* 7) of material per cycle. What else do I feed them? As far as I know clay requires sand which isn't sustainable or quick to make. 1 or 2 Puft don't produce enough slime for them.

[Lifegrow]

1 hour ago, CantBreathe said:

I don't want to use exploits, so how am I supposed to cool geyser water for use in showers ect? Doesn't the ice biome degrade if used this way?

I was using cooled hydrogen to create ice to feed hatches over mesh tile. Hatches eat nearly 1000kg(* 7) of material per cycle. What else do I feed them? As far as I know clay requires sand which isn't sustainable or quick to make. 1 or 2 Puft don't produce enough slime for them.

Make a small room - put two or three wheezeworts in there, along with a pump and a vent. Make a loop of pipe from your pump - to wherever you want to cool - and back to the vent. Fill the system with hydrogen. Profit  I was cooling geyser water like this for 100 cycles before my last series ended.

As regards your hatches - I see a lot of people agonizing about what to feed them. I use clay / igneous rock / sedimentary rock. If you ever run out of all 3 of these, you've either not dug enough of your asteroid out, or dug waaay too much  Either way, i've played to 1000+ without depleting these resources no problem - feeding 10-12 hatches regularly. Slime biomes are too useful to not dig out, and they're stuffed with clay and sedimentary rock. 

Hope this helps  

[Vilda]

6 hours ago, CantBreathe said:

I don't want to use exploits, so how am I supposed to cool geyser water for use in showers ect? Doesn't the ice biome degrade if used this way?

Why would you have to? Incoming temperature does not matter and temperature of the output water (shower, filter) is set at 40 °C

Anyway temperature should properly dissipate in pipes over distance in new update.

[Kasuha]

6 hours ago, CantBreathe said:

I'm so annoyed by this statement ;\ It makes me feel like i've been cheating

There's no reason to feel like that. There's no actual cheating in single player games and ONI is changing in your hands. You will have to spend more energy to cool things down and move wheezeworts around but energy will be much easier to come by and wheezeworts can be put in planters. You got one feature taken away and two features added that compensate for the loss.