Energy Needs improvments

[leea123]

I found a right area of hydrogen, put in a gas pump to feed my hydrogen generators. within 5 mins its all gone! it should last days real time. otherwise your for ever moving your pump around to new hydrogen areas.

Is there going to be any new energy producing types?

Thanks Lee

[Beowulfe]

48 minutes ago, leea123 said:

I found a right area of hydrogen, put in a gas pump to feed my hydrogen generators. within 5 mins its all gone! it should last days real time. otherwise your for ever moving your pump around to new hydrogen areas.

Is there going to be any new energy producing types?

Thanks Lee

Agreed on the hydrogen - I think, ideally, the hydrogen generator should consume less hydrogen per second (and likely provide slightly less power). It's easy to build multiple generators if extra generation is desired, but attempting to build a power system off of an enclosure of hydrogen isn't feasible at the moment, since a single hydrogen generator consumes it too quickly to make it a good option, making you have to constantly relocate your pumps.

 

As for new energy producing types, they just briefly mentioned natural gas vents (similar to geysers, but for natural gas) on the stream, so I'm sure we'll get some new energy production through those eventually.

[Ciderblock]

Right now I'd say the bigger problem is that there is just no shortage of power. This is a base that, except possibly for temperature problems, works. (Here I don't include buildings that consume no power.)

8 dupes, 2 of whom are permanent hamster wheel slaves.

2 liquid pumps (one in the geyser room, one in the home tank), 1 gas pump, 1 gas filter, 1 electrolyzer, 1 fertilizer maker, 2 refrigerators, 1 hydrogen generator, 1 air scrubber.

All manual airlocks (optional, but it simplifies the math and allows you to keep everything on one high wattage circuit).

2 batteries will get you through the night (you will probably need a little extra help from the 6 dupes to keep them charged).

That doesn't even use coal!

That said: yes, the hydrogen pockets on the map are really not useful, especially since the generator will fire when the power is being wasted.

[Kasuha]

The most reliable supply of hydrogen is from your electrolyzers. It may be source of a nice chunk of power if done right but it still depends on how fast are your dupes able to get rid of all the oxygen they generate as well.

6 hours ago, leea123 said:

Is there going to be any new energy producing types?

Yes

[Masterpintsman]

IMHO hydrogen generators are ment as a way to deal with the byproduct of oxygen generation through electrolysers, the pockets on the map are there to annoy you...

[Beowulfe]

9 hours ago, Masterpintsman said:

IMHO hydrogen generators are ment as a way to deal with the byproduct of oxygen generation through electrolysers, the pockets on the map are there to annoy you...

Yes - but that shouldn't necessarily be the case. I think being able to harness those pockets for (admittedly somewhat short-term gain) would be great. Would help promote expansion, giving you an energy source as long as you keep expanding to more hydrogen pockets, as well as improving the overall applications of the hydrogen generator outside of extreme electrolyzer use.

Maybe low priority in comparison to other things in the game, but I don't think there's anything wrong with increasing the number of uses for external, limited sources of energy, instead of simply focusing on large/renewable/internal sources. Would allow for alternate methods of progression.

[leea123]

Well the hydrogen generator are using hydrogen way too fast! it doesn't store anything doesn't matter how much each bit contains it does 3 moves and is out of hydrogen!

I have 10 electrolyzers and 4 pumps locked in an enclosed area, and the pumps cannot get enough hydrogen. Am pumping the oxygen out fast so there is plenty of room for it. ( have to have a hamster wheel too  )

Here are some pics, pic 1 hydrogen source, pic 2 10 electrolyzers and 4 pumps . there's no way it shouldn't have enough hydrogen to last for a long time. 

I think they need to introduce a water generator, where there are turbines in the water which activates the generator producing energy as a result.

The hamster wheels are good but it takes dups away from other thing. Late game is where you need them more.

Currently the hamster wheel power is the only reliable source of energy production in the game.

Thanks

Lee

[Kasuha]

10 minutes ago, leea123 said:

I have 10 electrolyzers and 4 pumps locked in an enclosed area, and the pumps cannot get enough hydrogen. Am pumping the oxygen out fast so there is plenty of room for it. ( have to have a hamster wheel too  )

You have 10 electrolyzers and 4 pumps but you have it set up in a way that they cannot possibly scoop more than 1000 g of gas per second from that room (that's maximum throughput of that single pipe you use) - that's production of one electrolyzer. Even if you used more pipes, it would grow to only 2 electrolyzers because of 4 pumps, each scooping up to 500 g of gas per second.

Put 8 pumps at the bottom of a room, and 1 pump at its top, preferably under A-shaped roof. Give each two of the bottom pumps a separate pipe. Install 5-6 electrolyzers in between them and in the long run, all the bottom pumps will be pumping pure oxygen and the top pump will be pumping pure hydrogen constantly. That could feed 4-5 hydrogen generators and produce oxygen for about 50 dupes.

 

[leea123]

34 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

You have 10 electrolyzers and 4 pumps but you have it set up in a way that they cannot possibly scoop more than 1000 g of gas per second from that room (that's maximum throughput of that single pipe you use) - that's production of one electrolyzer. Even if you used more pipes, it would grow to only 2 electrolyzers because of 4 pumps, each scooping up to 500 g of gas per second.

Put 8 pumps at the bottom of a room, and 1 pump at its top, preferably under A-shaped roof. Give each two of the bottom pumps a separate pipe. Install 5-6 electrolyzers in between them and in the long run, all the bottom pumps will be pumping pure oxygen and the top pump will be pumping pure hydrogen constantly. That could feed 4-5 hydrogen generators and produce oxygen for about 50 dupes.

 

so should I do small room with 2 gas pips and 1 or 2 elecrolyzer?

[Ciderblock]

40 minutes ago, leea123 said:

so should I do small room with 2 gas pips and 1 or 2 elecrolyzer?

If you enclose your electrolyzers, then you need 2 gas pumps per electrolyzer. There is 8 times more oxygen in there than hydrogen, so a viable approach is 5 electrolyzers in the middle of the room, 8 oxygen pumps at the bottom of the room, and 1 hydrogen pump at the top of the room. In theory, assuming two filters, this system consumes about 3 kW and generates about 4 kW. It's fussy to lay out, requiring both parallel gas pipes and parallel circuits to set up.

If you don't enclose your electrolyzers, then in theory you need only 2 gas pumps per 9 electrolyzers, positioned so that only hydrogen can reach it (the A-shaped roof trick that Kasuha mentioned helps). This is much more efficient in regards to power consumption, but leads to less consistent hydrogen generator operation.

Both approaches are viable. I prefer the second one just because it's simpler to implement and easier to scale up/down.

[SenhorLevi00]

I'm experiencing a little trouble with eletrolyzers and hydrogen generators. I have to power the eletrolyzer, the pumps (1 for each hydrogen generator) and 2 gas filters filters, but it seems that I always waste more energy than I generate or just enough to sustain the system (what would make all useless).

Every hydrogen generator need 1 gas pump and 1 gas Filter (before we used it to make fancy system but now, with this update, it takes ''wrong element damage'') which both of them  need to be powered.

Every eletrolyzer need power and a liquid pump, which also needs to be powered.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/813308148742396410/96E85F696AB09E70AACC4C8ED92D19F73C8F5EE2/

Am I doing something wrong?? (dont bully me I am a noob and a casual player)

[Kasuha]

35 minutes ago, SenhorLevi00 said:

Am I doing something wrong??

The only system I have found that is net energy positive includes electrolyzers releasing their products into the open (so I don't have to waste energy on sending the oxygen around the colony) and single gas pump to collect hydrogen mounted at the top. Send filter output to the hydrogen generator and the remaining gases into a valve set to low throughput that blocks the filter and the pump if it starts getting something that is not hydrogen. That keeps them off for a while, saving power. If you want to save some more energy, you may also use mechanical filter instead of a powered one but that's not necessary. Here's a blueprint, I guess it can handle output of about 5 electrolyzers, assuming you have enough dupes roaming somewhere nearby to get rid of the produced oxygen:

[ddraggy]

40 minutes ago, SenhorLevi00 said:

I'm experiencing a little trouble with eletrolyzers and hydrogen generators. I have to power the eletrolyzer, the pumps (1 for each hydrogen generator) and 2 gas filters filters, but it seems that I always waste more energy than I generate or just enough to sustain the system (what would make all useless).

Every hydrogen generator need 1 gas pump and 1 gas Filter (before we used it to make fancy system but now, with this update, it takes ''wrong element damage'') which both of them  need to be powered.

Every eletrolyzer need power and a liquid pump, which also needs to be powered.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/813308148742396410/96E85F696AB09E70AACC4C8ED92D19F73C8F5EE2/

Am I doing something wrong?? (dont bully me I am a noob and a casual player)

Hydrogen generators are not dependable power, so maybe cut back on your filters and pumps. Plan it out like hydrogen generators are for hydrogen disposal only.

If you want to keep your current electrolyzer room setup mostly intact (or need it to work while you build a replacement):

- One generator per 2 electrolyzers, but if the electrolyzers are not going 100% it still might not generate enough power. Get rid of the second generator. Generator needs 100g hydrogen PER SECOND for continuous power. Difficult unless you have a pure hydrogen area set aside and valves. Generators will burn through your hydrogen in seconds without valves. OK if you just want to get rid of hydrogen, bad if you want power.

- I see 3 filters in your screenshot. Get rid of at least one. Filter hydrogen for the generator, vent everything else around the base. Single filter can handle gas from two gas pumps if it's just hydrogen and oxygen. Gas pump sucks in 500g, but the pipe can hold 1000g. 400g oxygen blob from one pump + 450g oxygen blob from second pump = 850g oxygen blob if they merge in one pipe. Will get slight slowdown if the gasses are different types, but I think it's worth the power savings.

- Electrolyzers stop working if air pressure is too high. Be aware of that. One electolyzer pumps out 1000g of gas at max efficiency.

- One liquid pump is enough to feed about 10 electrolyzers I think. Single liquid pump provides 10kg. I'm using just one to pump for 3 electrolyzers, 6 lavatories, and an air scrubber no problem.

- Get gas valves researched. Very useful for controlling flow!

[SenhorLevi00]

Thanks guys, it helped a lot!! I'm dont have much time to play, so I will try these tips latter!

[Beowulfe]

4 hours ago, Kasuha said:

The only system I have found that is net energy positive includes electrolyzers releasing their products into the open (so I don't have to waste energy on sending the oxygen around the colony) and single gas pump to collect hydrogen mounted at the top. Send filter output to the hydrogen generator and the remaining gases into a valve set to low throughput that blocks the filter and the pump if it starts getting something that is not hydrogen. That keeps them off for a while, saving power. If you want to save some more energy, you may also use mechanical filter instead of a powered one but that's not necessary. Here's a blueprint, I guess it can handle output of about 5 electrolyzers, assuming you have enough dupes roaming somewhere nearby to get rid of the produced oxygen:

Just wanted to say I really like the idea of using the backed-up filter with gas valve as a way to limit non-hydrogen intake, thanks for the idea! Hadn't considered this yet. Gives me a few new design ideas.