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Important issues with DST and some ways in which these could be addressed


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I am not sure if I've included enough of what I wanted here. Most likely not. But I've delayed this for so long and I've taken hours writing this and I now that that it would be important to write at least about all of what I could gather and then post it, see how the game changes and then whatever will happen will happen. I am quite sure and I know many of us here are sure of this as well, that we'll be getting something to do with the portal sometime later. However, since developers have now started to work on fixes and some changes, I thought it would be the perfect time to post this, because lets be honest, the game needs a lot of changes, whether you agree with most of my points or not.

Well, my last thread of "Things that should really be done before ANR is finished" didn't really get any attention from Klei... I don't really understand why, since most of the things mentioned there had a bunch of players agree with me and the changes suggested generally weren't overly difficult to implement, as far as I can recall. Well, in any case, this is the mega-thread that I've been talking about for the past weeks that I would be posting, with a bunch of changes that Klei should really put their minds to. Yes, this is long. There's even more good suggestions out there in the suggestion section for DST that Klei doesn't seem to be reading into really. Why? I have no idea. It seems only general section gets attention, although even when things are suggested, they aren't taken into account at all or for a very long time even if a LOT of players request it (the vote kick, Klei, the vote kick)! In any case, half of the stuff here isn't even hard to implement... In fact, some of these... well, I'll leave this to what my next thread will bring about, which is related to modding. Look out for that one, cause it will be quite important as well! So, all that said, I'm hoping that since they are making a lot of bug fixes and quite a bit of changes NOW, that this thread will have at least some impact to the game.

Now that ANR is finished and all the puzzle stuff is done, I'm sure many could agree that it would be the best time for Klei to start making some more fixes and changes to the game that would improve the experience. Some of the ones listed here may be something that I've heard other members of the community discuss with or without me and others are simply my personal opinion. Further discussion is welcome here, as many of the suggestions here are of features that are untested, but I'll talk more about the few tested ones later... So, without further ado, here are things that the game could really do with improving:

Newbie support and more challenge to the late-game players

Spoiler

 

For newcomers, in harsh seasons, it is almost impossible to survive. Especially if they are new to the game as a whole and need to learn the ins-and-outs of it. Furthermore, events like the Deerclops, coming after player of day 1 that's far away from any support, just because they were near structures is way too damagingly impossible for them to deal with and hence simply unfair. And lastly, players that have played for a long time, have little to no challenge. The world is theirs to mould, even since the beginning of the game, because they know the game. There are a few suggestions I have for improving all of this:

* Charlie's support for newcomers at the portal - I have talked about this suggestion in more detail here and here. This is an extremely important change, so I would really suggest you give this a serious consideration. It is very much needed!

*  Changing events to occur locally - it is quite unfair, as mentioned before that day 1 or 2 players can experience something so punsihing as Deerclops, the Antlion, Bearger etc. This feature is already for hound and depth worm waves. Why is it not for Antlion, Deerclops, Bearger and anything else timed? Please, make it so that players CANNOT, even if they are the only players in the world, have a Deerclops come after them unless they have survived a certain amount of days, kind of like you have done with the voting system, but without "the only person on the server" exceptions. Deerclops could require at least 25 days survived, Bearger 65 and the Antlion 45, but whatever you think is best.

* There are multiple things that would need to be done in order to make things harder for late-game players. For one, I would suggest that the attack periods and attack patterns (if a certain mob has more than one attack) are more randomised so that kiting doesn't result in being a method of combat that makes things extremely trivial so much, or for players to at least cower more from their opponents if they don't want to get hurt (less hits per dodge). This could be done via something like (in TUNING list of tuning.lua): [insert a mob's attack period variable] = 4 + math.random() * 2

^ that would result in the attack period being between 4 to 6 seconds for a particular mob, as you might know. Simply, it would be a way to add more challenge even when kiting.

* Another thing I will mention is some changes to certain mobs, especially bosses. Bee Queen for one shouldn't trigger tentacles for exploitative combating reasons. It would also be good if the giant bee hive, instead of being entirely an optional boss, was more consequential, so perhaps if you killed/captured too many bees or destroyed enough bee hives, the nearest Bee Queen would emerge to hunt you down as a consequence.

*  Dragonfly could do with some changes too. For one, the Dragonfly was changed from being a roaming boss to a stationary one because it was too destructive. Now that the antlion, accompanied by smouldering is essentially the exact same level of destruction, I don't see a reason for the Dragonfly to be taken out from being a roaming boss. So, perhaps if Dragonfly only appeared during Summer and for most of the Summer stayed at its base, but at some point during it was to come after a certain player (this act being possible to delay if you're engaging in combat with the Dragonfly while it's stationary). The roaming mode could make the Dragonfly be some-what more like the single player version. I would certainly like to see the Dragonfly go around burning things so that she could munch of some ash again! What's more, Lavae could do with two changes; one is instead of a timer for when they will kill themselves, their health going down periodically, so if you were to fight the things with a spear or something, your damage output would have some point to it, otherwise it's just you waiting for them to kill themselves the entire time. The other being that they should really be able to jump over walls, I mean with the animation that they have... At least over tier 1 walls, so as to get rid of a certain exploit I've found players using recently (penning up the lava ponds). Dragonfly has the potential for some more attacks. Two that I have thought of are lava spew, which is her basically spewing lava/her saliva for a few seconds, preventing anyone not immune to fire/without a scalemail from hitting her without getting burnt. The other attack being her breathing fire, like an actual dragon. And for crying out loud, please, give her an angry look while aggroed on a player but not enraged, because it's just way too weird that she has a normal idle expression while going after you. Plus, it could help out identify whether she's aggroed onto you or just roaming around.

* Bearger could do with some more changes too. Aside from his animation and behavioural bugs that seem to be around, it would be good if there was some incentive made to fight him in Spring or Winter. His hibernation mechanic seems to be only useful for telling the player "don't wake him while he's hibernating", but since this mechanic makes the fight so much more difficult, it would be great to have some incentive to fight him in these seasons as well. Moreover, there is no incentive in killing him at all. You can just farm up the fur tufts, which would give you 3 thick furs instead of one from killing him. Some more attacks for him, including the running-and-then-stomping attack, which for some reason was removed from multiplayer, or at least isn't functional in multiplayer, would be great. Perhaps one new attack could be him going down on all fours and charging at the player to bite, or grab and chomp on the player, which could be very deadly if the player has no armour on (this could incentivise to use beefalo for the fight, perhaps, since Bearger couldn't grab and chomp on a beefalo. Or he could simply get you off the beefalo, that works too, I guess).

* Deerclops could have a freeze-blow attack. Right now, with enough kiting, you can easily kill the thing on your own. Way too easily. A freeze blow attack would ensure Deerclops gets an attack on a player if they're on their own, or simply make him better oriented for multiplayer. Players could avoid this freeze blow attack (which could last like 5 seconds max) via using the lazy explorer. In essence this attack would function like a weaker version/different variant of Fuelweaver's bone cage.

* Goose/Goose - This one might be the hardest one to implement... But to keep the boss much more stronger, and so that the tornado attack from mosslings is applied to the Gmoose, I would suggest these attacks: Tornado attack (only done if she's struck by lightning, a similar attack to that of the Sealnado, although it would be cool if she moved while this was happening, instead of staying in one spot), Fly up and slam (a similar attack to that of the Tigershark in Shipwrecked) and Levitate and charge attack. The tornado attack could be longer and move players either towards or away from her and deal a bit more damage to the player than the small mosslings, perhaps. And finally the levitate and charge attack, well, it's probably self-explanatory; she flies up a bit, to a point of levitating from the ground, puts out her horns and charges at a certain player.

* Antlion - In terms of combat, I would like the thing to be more dynamic; digging through the ground and jumping out, similarly to the depth worms, because it looks like it's suited for that, but instead, right now looks like an unfinished boss. And perhaps it could dig around the desert and wander instead of staying in one place, until you approach it? Please, just make it more dynamic! I mean, it creates cracks in the ground for players when angry, implying it moving around the ground, so, why is it so static there? Is it meant to be like a creature that stretches across the world instead? Well, it certainly doesn't look nice that way. Also, the thought is a bit strange, considering it only has 12000 health.

* Toadstool - I would like to see this guy actually be a trap boss. Essentially, there being a purple mushroom biome, with two types of purple mushtrees and purple mushrooms. Chopping down one of the kind of mushrooms, might turn out to actually be the boss, triggering a boss fight. It would also make players that are experienced to look for him more. Having the holes not be specific spots, but be in different spots around the biome every time, similarly to how I suggested the McTusk camp spawning mechanics, would be great, I think. Plus, I think it would be funny if he could trap the player via spawning some of his boomshroom trees while you're in the forest, although that might not really be plausible. Him having a tongue attack, similar to that of frogs would be awesome, but... him grabbing your armour instead and shattering it, instead of taking an item at random. Or, if you have no armour on you, him grabbing you instead and chomping you up, insta-killing you. A normal chomp attack from him would be nice too. I mean, why does he have those teeth if he doesn't use it for anything?!

* My last point here be for you to look out for where players exploit the game mechanics to make certain things that were intended to be more of a challenge, becoming a more of a farm. A notable feature would be the Walrus camp. Simply making their camp respawn in a different, semi-random location during winter once most of the party has been killed (the hounds and the McTusk, but not WeeTusk) should do the trick, preventing players from simply placing tooth traps and tentacles in the spot of their camp, or even just pig houses and  to kill them with ease. It would also incentivise the players to go around the map looking out for them, similarly to how Klaus sack feature is done. Although, the spawning of the camps shouldn't be in specified locations, because then these spots would be found and farming of them could be done with ease again. And also, a nice touch would be that if they happen to spawn near a pond, they would drill a hole and fish out some fish from ponds, I believe this was suggested already somewhere, but not entirely sure if I could find the topic. Another thing that could be added in terms of this that I know of is tumbleweeds bouncing off of the world edge instead of getting stuck there, allowing for quick and easy loot.

 

 

Renewability of items/objects/mobs/plants in the game

Spoiler

 

It is detrimental that some items simply respawn or regenerate in some non-destructable way in the game, because otherwise it means that over time, certain resources can be depleated. Some more easily than others, but in any case, here's a list of the things that should really be renewable in some ways:

* Pig houses - he ones hammered could simply respawn a few days later after being hammered, perhaps like 4. While this would incentivise hammering them for actually getting more pig skin, these houses are mostly spread out, even at the villages. I do not have a good solution for this exploit, however it is necessary that you make them respawn. More-over, I think it would be great if pigs actually gathered wood and repaired their houses if someone burns them. And it would probably be good if they attacked you for lighting or hitting their house with a hammer.

* Bee hives being renewable through the giant bee hive would be great as well, I think, perhaps with some involvement of the Grumblebees in their reconstruction from the nearest Giant Beehive.

* Reeds - just make them respawn in the spots they were spawned in from the world generation if they get burnt, similarly to how glaciers generated by the world come back if they get dried up and have that spot not possible to place any structures in! Simple! Perhaps, to incentivise having marsh turf and the marsh turf brought from the giant tentacles to have some form of proper use, the reeds would only respawn in marsh turf is placed at their spawner.

* Spiky trees and spiky bushes - I don't know why these don't respawn, really. I mean, the spiky bushes are a twig resource variant, so it would be great if they could respawn so we can use them. Perhaps they could be ones that don't disease, but would harm you even if you dig them up, so as to incentivise picking them rather than digging them up. This would make them balanced with the normal twigs and allow you to choose between dealing with a rare disease or picking slower and hurting yourself, or having large space taken up from having twiggy trees nearby. Don't you lose variants? Oh, and I forgot to mention spiky trees... yeah, could they respawn too? Perhaps they might not be as useful if we can't replant them, but it would be cool if they did. Then I wouldn't feel so bad for ruining the aesthetic

* Killer bee hives - a cool challenge that may also come useful in certain scenarios... but it's pretty much temporary and easily gotten rid of. Could we have them just respawn, please? I love those dangerous hives and it's sad when other players destroy them, leaving nothing but an open field to walk through :(

* Mandrakes - Hmm... may be they could respawn every time it rains heavily? It would be cool to keep the meep. Yes, you can get them from the Klaus, but it's a CHANCE to get only ONE. And plus, it's not one that meeps, sadly :( and besides, it would be cool if the mandrake soup actually did a thing for you, rather than being something used just to defeat bosses when consoling stuff in. And how about, if you go near their spawns during the night, you can seem them come out and meeping on-spot? Getting too close having them latch onto you, of course :p OH, and how about if you can't sleep while one's following you? :D

* Stalagmites - since players can exit with the Fossil fragments, it could be possible to as a result get rid of a boss, ruins regeneration and two useful mobs by just collecting all of the fossils, if left in chest to some tool that will take them and will never come back. But them simply not being possible to be taken with you can create a few problems, like not being able to even take them to the surface for spawning the green stalker and newbie players scattering them around the world, making the limited amount impossible to find *cough*justlikechester*cough*. And also, where did the stalagmites come from...? So, how about if deeper into the caves (away from cave entrances) stalagmites, and in certain biomes the spilagmites with the other stalagmite variant, could fall down during earthquakes? It would make it more fun and dangerous as well!

* Gold boulders, other boulder types and rocks - Gold boulders are pretty much the only ones that are non-renewable, which is a bit of a shame, but also a problem for new players in older worlds. It comes to a point where the only two generally reliable ways of getting gold is from pig king or rarer, from earthquakes. This means that new players HAVE to find the main base or the pig king (might find both as a result) straight away. Furthermore, new players cannot craft compasses as easily because of this. May be make the boulders respawn somewhere in same type of biome after they get mined a few days later? Rocky biomes become barren because the boulders don't respawn as a result. Just empty void, the real desert, if you will. Same could go for the rocks in the mosaic and the grass patch nearby the pig king. A bit strange that there's rocks there, but it looks nice, so for them to respawn as well would be great :)

* Catcoon dens - just... make them respawn if destroyed, please? It is very easy for a boss or a noob/griefer to destroy them, making catcoons not renewable in the world anymore :( - apparently this is alredy in the game, so this can be ignored if that is the case. However, kittycoons populating them more from being raised would be nice.

* Fireflies - yeah, I know, they are renewable now because of the desert pond, but that's extremely unreliable, since it's only 3 per summer. I would suggest that the fireflies would respawn in the same type of biome they were picked from the moment they are caught, but the place being very random. This would make catching them a long-term thing instead of something you do at first generally speaking and then never really do again. Since they are a fuel source for things like miner hat and lantern, it being a more reliable (but not as reliable as bulbs) for it would be nice. Besides, they take up bug nets to catch, where as bulbs you can just pick, so I would say that balances it out quite nicely.

* Merm houses - since players let Deerclops and whatnot walk through here, chances are, merm houses will get destroyed. Some other players want them destroyed, even if they have no griefing intentions. This is destruction of content. Please, make them respawn where generated in the world, if not craft them.

* Pig torches - they should really respawn if the world generates them, simple as.

* Pig heads and merm heads - it would be a fun little thing if when a pig kills a merm, they grab some of the fish/frog legs to craft a merm head in the area and vice versa.

* Hound mounds - raising a vargling to have a hound mound respawn in some form would be a nice addition. But having some indestructible way to renew them would be good.

* Tallbird nests - some have suggested that once you raise a smallbird into a tallbird, that tallbird should place a nest somewhere. Considering how useless it is to raise a smallbird right now, this would be suitable, in all honesty. Although that wouldn't make the nests and the birds impossible from being erased from a server. Would be good if the world respawned them as well if the nests get burnt. Or simply make the nest not flammable?

 

And anything else not mentioned here that could lead to content being destroyed. What is the point of having content in the first place if you allow it to be erased on a server so easily, never to be seen again? Not only does this destroy the aesthetic of the game, but also creates issues in survival that really shouldn't be there for players. Please, Klei, this is an important task you need to undertake.

 

 

 

 

Item/structure/object rebalances

Spoiler

 

Okay, so I'm sure you are aware of the various weak or pretty-much-useless items, right? Well, here's a list of most of them that I've found, with explanations as to why they are so useless and/or how they could be improved. I will also soon be posting a topic in the general section related to some of the stuff below, so anyone reading this, watch out for that!

 

* The lazy forager - just make it refuelable via nightmare fuel! It's not even that hard, unless you're making a mod for it! Sure it has its uses, but it being used for more miscellaneous stuff like picking up those 500 logs and pinecones from a hard work of chopping would make it great. Perhaps it picking up stuff a bit faster also couldn't hurt, since sometimes you need to just sit there to do it. Some people have suggested for it to pick up stacks of things, but eh, pick those stacks up yourself :p

* Marble trees - they've essentially become decorations due to how they've been rebalanced. How about if you needed royal jelly along with a marble to craft two of them? This would give . But that not being all... They should then loot more marble as well. Having less space taken up and less time taken to mine them all, whilst getting a decent amount of marble could honestly make it balanced with the log suits, I think. Mining up three large marble trees or four medium ones for a marble suit I think is a fair trade-off, but having to mine up 8 or so large ones for a marble suit is just way too grindy. Oh, and they should all loot marble beans if royal jelly becomes part of the recipe. May be the large ones could have a small chance of yielding an additional bean?

* Leafy meat - could we have it have 1 meat and 1 vegetable crockpot value? What? Why not 0.5 vegetable value? You will have to wait till I make that other topic to find out :p also, it would be great if you could dry it for... may be some special jerky that gives more for health and sanity than regular jerky?

* WX-78 - okay, so I've two things to tell about him... First would be that the rain damage is a non-threat later on in the game. Or even early on. In fact, it's not a threat at all if you're not constantly bitten by spiders without wearing armour. Here's my suggestion; make his wetness rate and the amount of damage he takes increase based on the amount of wetness he has. The current damage rate and amount being the minimum (when above 0 wetness).

* Willow - ohhoho, if I may, and I may because this is my topic... I'll just leave you hanging for a bit there until the other topic is made where I explain everything about our beloved Pyromaniac :p

* Nightmare amulet - yes, it's been made more useful and some might argue that the way it gives you nightmare fuel, late-game, and it being a relatively late game item could means that its recipe is just fine for getting more nightmare fuel, however, in comparison to the fact that you can simply regenerate sanity and get rid of it easily in many ways even at mid-game, makes it generally more useful for the weaver fight and getting past obelisks. So, since it's also an item that takes up nightmare fuel to be crafted, I think it would be great if we could refuel it with it. Saves some gold and purple gems, which could then be used more of for telelocator staves and focuses for other things.

* The lazy explorer - I would suggest either increasing the amount of durability it has to 50 or making it refuelable via nightmare fuel (1 fuel = 1 puff perhaps). Why? Because for one, half the time you'll miss-click and telepoof when you don't want to and secondly because its telepoofing feature is rarely used. Also, could you make it so that you get the cane back once you use up the thing? Because what's the point of telepoofing when it's at 5% then? And in most worlds you will only get one MsTusk camp, meaning that if a lot of players want to make use of this thing, and with the addition of beefalo riding consuming tusks for brushes (if people make use of the feature well, but I'll get to beefalo riding in a bit), it would be really nice if we could get our canes back.

* One Man Band - This item definitely needs a LOT more durability. More-over, it would probably be best if sanity drain didn't stack from having more followers attach to you from using it. And also, I think it would be extremely useful if it woke up any mobs in the vicinity! I mean, it's an annoying piece of it plays very loudly, so it would make sense if you could use it to wake up mobs. May be it could keep pigs during night and dusk from not chopping down trees? Eeeh, maybe not.

* Pan flute - two things... for one, it would be great if it had a bit more durability, so something like 20 or 30 instead of just 10, so that it could be used more on various things, other than getting dragonfly out of enraged state (which you should probably look into changing as well) and the rarity of mandrakes, even if respawning during heavy rains, the rarity of deconstruction staves and making mandrake soups as more of an option, this change could be good. Yes, they could be used to get rid of hounds in a hound attack easily, but not if the hounds wake up from you killing one of them. The other thing I want to mention is that I think that there should be a longer delay for when the pan flute activates and takes away durability, especially since in PvP that is what outranks it with Sleepy Time Stories book.

 

 

Things that need to DESAPWN!11!!!!!!111

Spoiler

 

Ease the lag pls by despawning individual items (unstacked) in a few days or so of the following:

* Rot (could turn into dirt before disappearing too, but then dirt would need a good use...)

* Seeds (although they could grow into something that's common on that particular biome instead)

* Stingers

*Teeth

*Bone shards

* Petals (both kinds)

* Tree stumps (could be destroyed by the rail instead, since that will make sense as well)

* Manure

* Guano

Nuff said >:(

 

 

Some miscellaneous things

Spoiler

 

* Expanding a little on tumbleweeds, aside from them bouncing off of the edges of the map to not be so easy to pick, I would like to suggest two things: they are only present during Summer, their spawners changing spots around every time you pick up a tumbleweed, and for them to have higher chances of giving good loot (e.g. trinkets, gems) as a counter for bouncing around and spawning in only during Summer. Actually, perhaps they could have a guaranteed chance of dropping 1 twig, 1 grass and a chance of dropping an additional item which could be nothing or some of the other, rarer items? This would incentivise players to go around deserts during this season, picking tumbleweeds and Summer would actually have a good incentive to it, similar to that of Winter with McTusks! Them only spawning during Summer also means that they could be the focus of getting grass and twigs during this season if you can't pick grass and twigs during this season for whatever reason.

* Buzzards - just make them spawn in during Summer as well. Some people take advantage of this farm sometimes way too hardly, I've seen. Plus, them being a Pengull variant of the Summer season sounds pretty cool. Other than this, I don't really have any ideas, but if you, Klei, or others in the forum do in terms of how they could be changed or incentivised to kill or whatever else, then it would be nice to see something a bit more done with them. Not that they need to, really. Animals for the aesthetic can be great too.

* Sandstorms - A bit undeveloped, I would say. It would be great if this could be expanded on in some way. Perhaps the Antlion would move from desert to desert after each time it attacks a certain player and as a result, the sandstorm would prove more of a challenge if any desert separates any land masses or you're basing in them (which might make some players think about basing elsewhere too).

* Cave stalker - I think it would be cool if the cave stalker could trap in some smaller creatures in bone cages too and not just players, so creatures like spiders, moleworms, rabbits, heck perhaps even depth worms (making him a bit more useful for defeating them), slurpers, splu-monkeys, clockwork bishops and knights and perhaps even bunnymen and pig men. Probably some other creatures that can be present in the caves, or may be a tag for all/most smaller mobs could be given to do this for all mobs that are technically small enough to be caged.

* I think it would be cool if instead of teleporting to you, chester dug himself magically from one point to another, to give him more of a vibe of being a dog and also making it less odd if chester despawns in-front of someone else far behind you.

* Improve the contents of ornate chests, the large ornate chest and make the edges of dangling depth dweller silk turfs trigger them to attack. This would make the labyrinth more exciting and make the looting of chests much more worth it. And in the case of the ancient guardian, since it has x4 the amount of health as in single player and is supposed to be a multiplayer effort, may be you could reward players with enough loot to satisfy multiple players? Like come on!!!

* Beefalo riding - Firstly, let us exit with them while mounted on them. This would also mean that you could have a domesticated beefalo and Sure, some might try to steal the beefalo, which is why it would be good if you made the beefalo loyal to each player. The moment one is fed grass, it should not accept food from other players until fully undomesticated. You might want to share the beefalo with others, but the fact that others exiting with them from feeding one grass can become a bit of a problem, this needs to be in place, unfortunately. Moreover, it would be great if we could jump through wormholes with them directly, because while carrying a horn to get through wormholes isn't too big of an issue, the big problem is that the horn only has 10 durability. I guess you could make the durability be more to something like 50, although direct travel would probably be better. Moreover, it would be cool if we could change their tendencies after they have been fully domesticated. This way, if we can only have one beefalo and if we wanted to change a tendency, we wouldn't need to attack it to lose so much days of domestication progress. And can we please have it so that in PvE you can't attack a beefalo that someone else has started domesticating? And for domesticated/partially domesticated beefalo to not trigger tooth traps and bee mines as well? I have talked a bit more about this here, most of which I generally still think should be in the game, if not in already.

* Tree guards and Totally Normal Trees- likewise with Killer Bee hives, I'm a bit sad that the Totally Normal Trees once cut will be removed content from the game. So, how about making sense from where they come from by making fully-grown tree guards turning into them after a certain amount of time? This could be useful in populating evil flowers, if the totally normal trees spawn and respawn them over time around them and the mechanic of the tree guards turning into them would mean that they have a full, representative life-cycle with that of the non-guard evergreens. Plus, it would mean that they can't simply be left somewhere forever to fight Deerclops or Bearger or whatever other mobs for you.

* Spider population and Spider queen - Okay, so, spiders are a bit of a problem that makes the game way too much of a world-managing one than a survival one. I think it would be great if spider queens never left a tier 1 nest after spawning, but instead, when killed, dropped two spider eggs. This would incentivise you to fight the queen more and keep the spiders from over-populating completely. Perhaps, if there are too few spider nests, the game could spawn some in somewhere in the world (highest chance in forest and swamp biomes, less chance for some other biomes like savanna, grass, mosaic  and deciduous), so as to not make it that some troll can come in on the first day and destroy all nests and the player having to need a webber player in order to get spider eggs for new nests. Moreover, this would mean that worlds that don't get regular webber players would and have no caves enabled would still be able to get silk and spider glands.

* Spider hat - by the way it is balanced, I would think it would be used by players more, but... it seems like it's not really a needed item at all, unless you're clearing a hoard of spiders. Here's how I would suggest the hat to be rebalanced: firstly, increase its durability a bit. Secondly, if you have any additional hats, make it so that they would switch over like armour. And thirdly, make it so that it turns sanity auras into insanity ones ;) Not sure if this will make much difference, although I can't think of anything better for this item, in all honesty.

* Wormhole and Lazy deserter sanity drain - currently, it is way too easy to lose sanity on purpose with these two methods. I would suggest that the player's sanity drain would halve the next time the player uses these and for a timer to reset this sanity drain amount over time, if either of these are not being used. Plus, it would make more sense if players get used to jumping through wormholes and using teleportation, don't you think? Perhaps apply this to the telelocator focus and the lazy explorer, since they too are used for teleportation? And also... make it so that the lazy deserter can only be activated if it has desert turf underneath it. This would make the sand swirling around it and the one that grabs players and brings them over something that makes more sense AND would make it so that the deserter cannot be used in the heart of the ruins or in the ruins by the players to teleport in there, since the ruins turf cannot be removed :D Perhaps some renewable way of getting desert turf, like killing the ant lion or fishing it up from the white crumpled packages that you fish out from the oasis desert pond.

* Ancient altar repairs from getting damaged - I know they respawn, but having to go through resetting the ruins again just because the statue got wrecked from earthquakes, even though you could have repaired via thulecite if the game allowed you to, then that's a bummer. Make them work just like ancient relics; getting hit giving them damage, which then allows you to repair it instead of it having some number of hits and then breaking like other machine structures. Moreover, it would be very beneficial if the statues could not be damaged, or at least not destroyed by incoming rooks, cause some of them have their spawn points set nearby them.

* On Tentacles - to make the marsh turf even more useful and desirable for renewability or whatnot, I think it would be a good idea if Wickerbottom could only spawn tentacles with it on marsh turf. This would also stop unsuspecting players from getting caught by them in a perfectly fine grass field. This would also mean that the marsh turf should not be possible to be dug up so long as there's a tentacle on it. This would also mean that the player needs to think more before-hand for using the book and mean that griefer wickerbottoms can't spawn them in bases so easily.

* Spider egg placement - similarly to the previous thought, make it so that you can't place spider eggs or have spider queens turn into spider nests on man-made turf? I've been on a server where people have wanted to reset a server just because spider nests invaded their base :(

* Volt goats and their horns - two issues... there is usually only one herd, their herds don't multiply like it does for beefalo, for some reason, and their horn drop rate is way too low for using the Morning Star as a reliable weapon of sorts, or getting some more weather pains. It would benefit the game well if the herds expanded for volt goats like they do for beefalo so that the goats can't go extinct so easily. For the horn, it would probably be great if you had a 33% chance of getting it from the goat rather than 25%, since that is also the chance for Beefalo dropping their horn. It would be nice if we could milk the goats while they're asleep for electric milk, since killing them while they're charged seems to be the only way to get it and crockpot foods that require electric milk aren't so godly as to be craved so much. I mean, you can have a honey production going, getting you all the sanity you need, versus sometimes getting a good sanity restoring item that amounts to not that much because of how rarely you actually get it in higher amounts. If it messed with the balance of needing honey for sanity, perhaps the milking could be done in a specific season, like Spring for instance. Lastly, perhaps not the best idea, and I know some might not like the idea as this could restrict base expansions (which imo would be great actually), but if a goat horn was part of lightning rod recipe (only one horn, so if the rod got wrecked, you could rebuild it without requiring extra horns), I think it would be very fitting and incentivise people more to look out for goats and try to slaughter them, even if they're not going for the badass weapons that the horn requires. Besides, it is so very fitting for the recipe!

* Suspicious snow piles - instead of suspicious dirt piles, in winter, you would get suspicious snow piles! This would make hunting harder as the snow piles would be harder to track down due to their visuals blending in with the environment, making food possibly more of an issue in this harsh season.

 

 

Griefing...

Spoiler

 

A bit of a touchy subject, I will say. I have already made some points in relation to wickerbottom's On Tentacles book and the plantation of Spider Eggs. This section will focus on anything that might be left over for that. There isn't too much, with the addition of improved voting system, but there are a few things I do want to mention that I have some ideas about how they could be dealt with instead of using the rollback. Because it has come to a point where rollback is just a normal game feature you can use all you want. That isn't good for game design.

* Fire checks - for any fire related griefing, this is what I am 100% for. Some others don't like the idea too much, but for reasons which ultimately are minor. The only major reason I can think of being the possibility of lag. To give you an idea of what this is about... well, there are multiple mechanics to this. First of all, players not being able to light any flammable structures on fire. Secondly, anything that isn't a structure should only be possible to light on fire if it is not in a chain reaction to a flammable structure (e.g. so you couldn't light a tree on fire that would light another tree that would light your science machine on fire). Thirdly, you couldn't light any mob on fire that is within a certain radius of a flammable structure or within a radius of something flammable that would lead to a chain reaction of burning down a structure. Lastly, a flammable structure or an item couldn't be placed down near a flammable object that is in a chain reaction to an already-burning/smouldering item/object. Otherwise, if the check is made and there are no structures that could be lit on fire as a result of player action, then you can light that plant/mob/item. This would still allow players to burn a whole bunch of trees in a safe place for a bunch of charcoal (which you should do in the first place), whilst making sure griefing related to fire doesn't occur. Any firehounds killed in base, however is an intended mechanic, so even if done with griefing intentions, you should expect and be prepared for these things by the time they come. Again, this is to remove unintended possibilities, not intended ones and griefing isn't intended to be possible, to my knowledge at least. Additionally, it would be good if slurtle slime and gunpowder would be impossible to light in a radius of any structures, or at the very least the ice flingomatic.

* Hammering structures - I do not have a griefer-proof idea for this issue, because players often do want to hammer certain structures without a griefing intention in mind. However I have something that may just work well... Making it so that a player cannot hammer any more than 3 structures without crafting one. This would mean that if a griefer hammers down three things, they would no longer be able to hammer anything unless they craft something. This would not apply to signs or skeletons, of course.

* Protecting flingomatics from getting hammered - The above point doesn't address flingomatics still getting hammered, which, even with the above two mechanics implemented, would still result in at least 3 easily-hammerable flingos. What I would suggest are the two following points: Increasing the range at which you need to be in order to fuel, turn on and turn "off" the ice flingomatics, while making it so that you need to be right next to it in order to hammer it. This would mean that you could surround your flingomatics via moon rock walls, insuring for longer that the flingomatic doesn't get hammered (which in result would also make the moonrock walls useful to some extent), while allowing you to easily fuel it without having to deal with hammering the walls every time yourself. The second thing I would suggest is that when a flingo is turned on and there's fire around to be extinguished, it should not be possible to turn off. Right now, it is possible to turn on a flingo that is in emergency mode and switch it off, making it inactive when it should be alert.

 

 

Lastly, a few more suggestions by me and others that I think you should really look into in order to make your game more mechanically as well as aesthetically pleasing:

Talking whilst running

Abandoned bases, visual feature

Snot bombs (I believe I made a topic about this, but I can't seem to find it... strangely, the search in suggestions section seems to be broken; searches don't pick up titles of suggestion topics)

Critters being part of the wild

Slurtle and Snurtle armour drop mechanics

Petition to bring back the Old Bell

 

In any case, these are a large portion of my thoughts on some of the content in the game. If anyone has any ideas on changes that have not been mentioned here, write them in this topic. I might add more points, but only by creating new posts, since this is long and having devs re-read it... they might not even read this once, thinking "tl;dr", which would be a shame :(@V2C you have my back, right? ... right?

 

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Welp, already realized a few things I forgot to mention:

1) Griefing protection mechanics being optional, by default being switched on or off, depending on how well it's received (preferably on for official public servers).

2) Ice Cube and Fashion melon needing balance changes. The former could simply have a cap of wetness at 33 and the latter having a longer durability.

3) Wall hammering not being affected by the structure hammering feature.

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Ok i didn't read all the topic because it was so huge, but quickly :

 

I agree that more stuff should be renewable one way or another.
As far as i know, manure already disappears after some time (if not picked by the player). Anyway a beefalo can't do an unlimited amount of manure (if not picked, of course) and a koalefant only drop a max of 4 (same rules).

 

And as said, the post was too long and i don't have the courage to answer each point especially since it usually end in a kind of "quote war" with two people arguing and no place for real discussion.

 

Also, how to say this ? Maybe your previous topic didn't get that much attention for Klei because it wasn't as good as you think it was, neither it was that much approved. But of course maybe i'm confusing the one you are speaking about with another too big and unreadable topic of yours.

In fact i'm pretty happy, i must admit, that Klei don't change all the game based on one topic. Sure, it take time for some changes, too much time sometimes (like for vote), but no, you don't have the pure and unaltered truth of the balance of the game that only you are lucid enough to see, when klei fails to see your genius and how can they ignore you this way when you have that much good idea ?

No, seriously, you have some interesting points and things i agree with, but you are speaking like they should obviously give you more attention and be glad you are here to save the game. Maybe these interesting points will be better in smaller topics when we can actually discuss the idea you have. Or just read all of them, in fact. Bigger isn't necessary better.

 

Finally, could someone anyone change the title to something like "important change i like to see in DST" or anything that will look less official ? because now it sound like "changes are planned to DST" or "theses changes must be done" and it's neither of this.

Thanks.

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3 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

* Catcoon dens - just... make them respawn if destroyed, please? It is very easy for a boss or a noob/griefer to destroy them, making catcoons not renewable in the world anymore :(

Destroyed Hollow Stumps regenerate in Don't Starve Together.

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Dude, pick your battles. Klei's not gonna read through a freakin 5 page essay of what YOU think the game should be. Nitpicky stuff like this is what makes people weary of "suggestion topics", making the real issues less likely to be addressed or even noticed. Its a neat blog but 70% of it is just pretentious "my ideas are better" crap you hear from people with no bearing on the time, effort and cash it takes to make even a low key game like DST.

Yuck.

 

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" * Cave stalker - I think it would be cool if the cave stalker could trap in some smaller creatures in bone cages too and not just players, so creatures like spiders, moleworms, rabbits, heck perhaps even depth worms (making him a bit more useful for defeating them), slurpers, splu-monkeys, clockwork bishops and knights and perhaps even bunnymen and pig men. Probably some other creatures that can be present in the caves, or may be a tag for all/most smaller mobs could be given to do this for all mobs that are technically small enough to be caged. "

 

They do? its just that most things die before the cave stalker does that specific attack, try it on a slurtle and after a few hits they will cage it

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"In Don't Starve Together, Hollow Stumps regenerate after a relatively long time, making Catcoons renewable. The time to regenerate equals to the sum of the Season's length and the number of the remaining days in that season, at the time the Hollow stump is destroyed. Therefore the regeneration happens from 15 to 40 days in a default world configuration. For example, if the Hollow Stump is destroyed on the 8th day of the Winter, since Winter is 15 days long and there are 7 days left, the Hollow Stump will regenerate 22 days later. "

According to the Wiki. I've seen them reappear. It takes a while. I think it is part of the (somewhat mysterious) DST world regrowth.

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35 minutes ago, OttoVonChesterfield said:

Dude, pick your battles. Klei's not gonna read through a freakin 5 page essay of what YOU think the game should be. Nitpicky stuff like this is what makes people weary of "suggestion topics", making the real issues less likely to be addressed or even noticed. Its a neat blog but 70% of it is just pretentious "my ideas are better" crap you hear from people with no bearing on the time, effort and cash it takes to make even a low key game like DST.

Yuck.

 

I expected this to come and I can see why. But 70%? Idk. I want to put my face behind a pillow and hide now >.>

I do try to address a lot of core issues that the game does have here, however, both in terms of general issues as well as game design. Please, I spent a lot of time writing this, don't just dismiss it like that.

46 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Destroyed Hollow Stumps regenerate in Don't Starve Together.

No, not what I meant. Hollow stumps can be hammered and wrecked completely by a boss like bearger. Once they're destroyed, they're gone for good to my knowledge. Or does that really happen? I thought it was only when the catcoon is killed 9 times and the den is "broken".

26 minutes ago, JustAPineapple said:

" * Cave stalker - I think it would be cool if the cave stalker could trap in some smaller creatures in bone cages too and not just players, so creatures like spiders, moleworms, rabbits, heck perhaps even depth worms (making him a bit more useful for defeating them), slurpers, splu-monkeys, clockwork bishops and knights and perhaps even bunnymen and pig men. Probably some other creatures that can be present in the caves, or may be a tag for all/most smaller mobs could be given to do this for all mobs that are technically small enough to be caged. "

 

They do? its just that most things die before the cave stalker does that specific attack, try it on a slurtle and after a few hits they will cage it

Oh... Nice!

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@EuedeAdodooedoe, it's really amazing how many ideas you have and how much work and time you invested into thinking about improving the game. However, I think it is way too much. I'm sorry, but I just couldn't read it all... I believe that there are many good ideas, some of them I agree with (like beefalo riding and tallbird nests) and some where I don't (On Tentacles, Mandrakes' respawn, the RoG bosses, Antlion and Toadstool - they're okay as they are now, quite a challenge for many-many players still. Btw, Antlion has only 6000 health, not 12k, if I'm not mistaken.). If all or at least more of these suggestions were implemented the game would change quite a lot, and it'd take a long time till people would figure it out and get used to it. Not to mention that what happenes if some of them wouldn't turn out as well as expected, for example I bet Klei didn't think that the voting system can be used for griefing as they released it. (Not anymore, thanks to Klei! :))

So in my opinion it's better if the game won't change that much.

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2 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

@EuedeAdodooedoe, it's really amazing how many ideas you have and how much work and time you invested into thinking about improving the game. However, I think it is way too much. I'm sorry, but I just couldn't read it all... I believe that there are many good ideas, some of them I agree with (like beefalo riding and tallbird nests) and some where I don't (On Tentacles, Mandrakes' respawn, the RoG bosses, Antlion and Toadstool - they're okay as they are now, quite a challenge for many-many players still. Btw, Antlion has only 6000 health, not 12k, if I'm not mistaken.). If all or at least more of these suggestions were implemented the game would change quite a lot, and it'd take a long time till people would figure it out and get used to it. Not to mention that what happenes if some of them wouldn't turn out as well as expected, for example I bet Klei didn't think that the voting system can be used for griefing as they released it. (Not anymore, thanks to Klei! :))

So in my opinion it's better if the game won't change that much.

But if it doesn't, where does it leave it? A lot of what I mentioned is meant to make the game more of a game and feel more like a game and less of a ddbug that still doesn't seem to know what it's doing with what, which is the imlression I am getting right now.

I don't understand what you don't like so much about the boss changes, like, all of them? You'd rather they be optional just so you can get loot without them being a threat of sorts that really gets you on your toes? Why not? The game was initially designed for exactly that!

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9 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

I don't understand what you don't like so much about the boss changes, like, all of them? You'd rather they be optional just so you can get loot without them being a threat of sorts that really gets you on your toes? Why not? The game was initially designed for exactly that!

It seems that Klei intentionally makes DST easier and more survior-friendly than DS, the point of the game is more "being together" as "surviving", I believe. Your suggestions are not bad, they're just more suited for experienced players and make the life of beginners more difficult. Some of my friend who play DST already wish the giant to hell, if these were buffed they surely wouldn't play it anymore. 

Don't get me wrong, giants and most of the DST stuff are not or just a smaller a challenge for me, so I also would like to see changes like yours... but maybe in a different game mode? In a DLC? I don't know, but I think DST should stay as it is (with the necessary minor changes and bug fixes of course) and there could be then a more difficult version, so that everyone, beginners and experts will also be happy, and as one get better and better he can try and then play the hard-mode. Like there is SW for DS: I played the normal Don't Starve first and played Shipwrecked (seriously) only as I was comfortable in the base game. Beginning in a SW world would have been too much I think.

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Your ideas are so numerous and create such radical changes that I think you'd be better off seeking to make a balance mod.

Too many changes are also opinion based and not quite objective enough from what I read.

I couldn't read it all either (with the intent to reply)... and I tried 3 times.

Sorry.

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Whether or not I agree with whats in this "novel", big props to @EuedeAdodooedoe. This thing must have taken days to write. I can't imagine someone writing all this just to be pretentious, I dont think it is the case (just take an hard look to his signature quote plz). Idk where he tooks that time from Xd I don't even have it to read it right now. Soon for sure.

Fractionning your novel into pieces could have been a good idea tho. People like to react to particular stuff. Your format doesn't enable good discussion. :/

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Maybe if you broke up the larger paragraphs into separate spoiler pieces, people could have an easier time reading it all in small bite-sized chunks. Like;

Part of the game that I think needs some reworking:

Spoiler

Discussion/opinion over what needs reworking.

 

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6 hours ago, fimmatek said:

It seems that Klei intentionally makes DST easier and more survior-friendly than DS, the point of the game is more "being together" as "surviving", I believe. Your suggestions are not bad, they're just more suited for experienced players and make the life of beginners more difficult. Some of my friend who play DST already wish the giant to hell, if these were buffed they surely wouldn't play it anymore. 

Don't get me wrong, giants and most of the DST stuff are not or just a smaller a challenge for me, so I also would like to see changes like yours... but maybe in a different game mode? In a DLC? I don't know, but I think DST should stay as it is (with the necessary minor changes and bug fixes of course) and there could be then a more difficult version, so that everyone, beginners and experts will also be happy, and as one get better and better he can try and then play the hard-mode. Like there is SW for DS: I played the normal Don't Starve first and played Shipwrecked (seriously) only as I was comfortable in the base game. Beginning in a SW world would have been too much I think.

That is honestly sad, to stop progress just because new players couldn't be able to deal with them. There's always the run away option. The way I've suggested the non-giant bosses to be, they would still require the player to encounter them in the places they are and do certain actions. The game can't be a game at all if it doesn't punish players. Newbies die and will die any way, no reason for them to keep us from having more challenge.

Moreover, newbies need more support at the beginning anyway. More support at the beginning and a harsher world later on is something I think all of us could benefit from. This is meant to be a game you learn from via trial and error, no, so lets not have this "newbie-friendly" train of though ruin it for the rest of us.

5 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

Maybe if you broke up the larger paragraphs into separate spoiler pieces, people could have an easier time reading it all in small bite-sized chunks. Like;

Part of the game that I think needs some reworking:

  Hide contents

Discussion/opinion over what needs reworking.

 

Yes, that is something I wanted to do, however forgot to do, thanks for reminding me!

 

5 hours ago, cactusarms said:

I'm not sure how they could make tentacles only actually spawn on marsh turf, since they are considered enemies.

Wat?

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This title is totally wrong. To put a title like this, you have to have all the community supporting you, which this may not be the case. Some of your ideas might sound good on paper, but in reality are hard to implement them in the game. I don't agree with some changes like using Wickerbottom's book On Tentacles only on swamp turfs or tumbleweeds appearing only in summer which this could be a unbalanced and unfair thing for new players since they will have to go in the ruins to get some gears or pray for some clockworks on the surface. You can't force Klei to take only your suggestions in consideration just because you make the best decisions for the game or your name is ''EuedeAdodooedoe''. We are a community and you have to understand you are not the only one who suggest things. Also I've been noticing if someone is not having the same opinion as you, you immediately get upset which this shows a lack of maturity. Please, next time put a better title and don't pretend you have better ideas and suggestions than everyone else. This topic shows exactly this. Sorry if I sound like I want to fight with you but I don't agree with most of the changes.

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Remember when EuedeAdodooedoe posted this kind of post like way back last year like this

..............

.............

............

 

Fresh memories.

Spoiler

You know what I mean.

 

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9 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

But if it doesn't, where does it leave it? A lot of what I mentioned is meant to make the game more of a game and feel more like a game and less of a ddbug that still doesn't seem to know what it's doing with what, which is the imlression I am getting right now.

I don't understand what you don't like so much about the boss changes, like, all of them? You'd rather they be optional just so you can get loot without them being a threat of sorts that really gets you on your toes? Why not? The game was initially designed for exactly that!

You feel that way because you know and master some parts of the game. Meaning that the only ways to counter that are, either to make mechanisms that can't be "learned" (no kiting, for example), or to change mechanism every so often so you have news things to learn. But changing things for something less "abusable" (yeah, knowing how to play and how to manage some dangers make the game more easy, very strange) but still fun is hard. I'm not sure some of your change will achieve that.

8 hours ago, fimmatek said:

Your suggestions are not bad, they're just more suited for experienced players and make the life of beginners more difficult. Some of my friend who play DST already wish the giant to hell, if these were buffed they surely wouldn't play it anymore. 

Don't get me wrong, giants and most of the DST stuff are not or just a smaller a challenge for me, so I also would like to see changes like yours...

I play since a long time and still hate bosses, either i run or i find a way for them to be killed by another monster of the game. I don't like giants, they destroy things and have too much hp for me to enjoy the fight. But for example, the idea of :

 

14 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 

* Deerclops could have a freeze-blow attack. Right now, with enough kiting, you can easily kill the thing on your own. Way too easily. A freeze blow attack would ensure Deerclops gets an attack on a player if they're on their own, or simply make him better oriented for multiplayer. Players could avoid this freeze blow attack (which could last like 5 seconds max) via using the lazy explorer. In essence this attack would function like a weaker version/different variant of Fuelweaver's bone cage.

 

Mean that deerclop is even more tedious alone, that i need a orange gem in my first winter if i want to fight the deerclop, that i don't have reward to kite him since it will become useless, and why i would try to fight the deerclop myself ? At the moment, when i am in the right condition, i run away from my camp and try to be in a forest so the deerclop will spawn treeguard. And i let them fight.

With an harder deerclop, i will not even try to fight him and learn, i will let treeguard do the job. And if for a reason or another it doesn't work anymore i will not try to fight deerclop more than at the moment.

So for me for example, theses changes will make the game more tedious, not more fun or challenging in a good way.

 

It's hard to make something more difficult without making it more tedious. For example, is it really fun to make deerclop with an attack making him "better oriented for multiplayer" ? For a giant that will spawn each winter ? Is it fun if, for a reason or another you are alone at the moment (playing solo, friends are dead, your friends are disconnected, friends can't manage deerclop) ? Some bosses are more multiplayer oriented but you can choose to wait for friends to start the fight. Here you can't really.

 

So yeah, i would like fights more fun and challenging and all the stuff but it's hard to do. And if not done well it make the game more tedious and instead of fighting bosses and all, people will avoid them more, leading to a post "i don't understand no one fight giant, they abuse the game letting them fight each other or fighting treeguard." and will lead to more ideas to "fix" this that will make the game more tedious...

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1 hour ago, Lumina said:

I play since a long time and still hate bosses, either i run or i find a way for them to be killed by another monster of the game. I don't like giants, they destroy things and have too much hp for me to enjoy the fight. But for example, the idea of :

16 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 

* Deerclops could have a freeze-blow attack. Right now, with enough kiting, you can easily kill the thing on your own. Way too easily. A freeze blow attack would ensure Deerclops gets an attack on a player if they're on their own, or simply make him better oriented for multiplayer. Players could avoid this freeze blow attack (which could last like 5 seconds max) via using the lazy explorer. In essence this attack would function like a weaker version/different variant of Fuelweaver's bone cage.

Mean that deerclop is even more tedious alone, that i need a orange gem in my first winter if i want to fight the deerclop, that i don't have reward to kite him since it will become useless, and why i would try to fight the deerclop myself ?

That's exactly why I don't want these changes in DST, or at least preserve the game and publish such changes in a dlc, as DST2 or idk... Sure these would make the game more challenging for those who already can kill the giant, but others would just avoid them even more and only a few would waste their time to practice and get better.

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Well, i made it through the wall of text, but it's so long i'm starting to forget some details.

A lot of people have shared their thoughts on how you express your opinions, so i won't go for that right now even though it does bother me. I'll talk about the rebalance ideas that i really have a problem with.

Tumbleweeds and the desert in general

Spoiler

This idea doesn't make sense in the slightest. DST needs more noob friendly options - this is essentially preventing newbies from gathering important materials unless they joined in the middle of summer. I've joined winter or spring servers before with no way to really bounce back and get in the game because the resources were scarce and didn't regrow fast enough. I was quickly running out of materials, but then i found the desert. I gathered a stack of twigs and grass and was able to- you know, actually play the game?

I've never heard of Buzzard abuse. I guess you could implement that change, but again - it ruins the deserty feel. You talked about how missing boulders and beehives made the flat patches of area too boring and lifeless- think about how the desert would look like without those iconic tumbles and vultures. Just a bunch of rocks and dogs, and occasionally something like the oasis or dragonfly nest.

Finally, volt goats and lightning rods. I guess this change is alright, not many problems there. by the time spring hits you should be prepared enough to fight volt goats so /shrug

Boss balancing

Spoiler

Yea sure let's make Deerclops nearly impossible to beat without a friend or orange gem in your first winter. Great idea. :wilson_tranquil:

The Bearger ideas are.. i dunno, annoying is the right word i suppose. Nothing better than getting your 100% thulecite armor get instantly smashed to bits from a fast, nearly unavoidable attack. Or insta-dying because you weren't careful enough or accidentally walked past while the bearger was preparing to pounce. Urgh.

Goose is, again, alright i suppose. I'm not too crazy about it though, the boss is already frustrating enough as is.

so that's basically my thoughts on these ideas. I have some gripes with the other stuff too, but i don't feel like writing up another essay.

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4 hours ago, Lumina said:

You feel that way because you know and master some parts of the game. Meaning that the only ways to counter that are, either to make mechanisms that can't be "learned" (no kiting, for example), or to change mechanism every so often so you have news things to learn. But changing things for something less "abusable" (yeah, knowing how to play and how to manage some dangers make the game more easy, very strange) but still fun is hard. I'm not sure some of your change will achieve that.

I play since a long time and still hate bosses, either i run or i find a way for them to be killed by another monster of the game. I don't like giants, they destroy things and have too much hp for me to enjoy the fight. But for example, the idea of :

 

 

Mean that deerclop is even more tedious alone, that i need a orange gem in my first winter if i want to fight the deerclop, that i don't have reward to kite him since it will become useless, and why i would try to fight the deerclop myself ? At the moment, when i am in the right condition, i run away from my camp and try to be in a forest so the deerclop will spawn treeguard. And i let them fight.

With an harder deerclop, i will not even try to fight him and learn, i will let treeguard do the job. And if for a reason or another it doesn't work anymore i will not try to fight deerclop more than at the moment.

So for me for example, theses changes will make the game more tedious, not more fun or challenging in a good way.

 

It's hard to make something more difficult without making it more tedious. For example, is it really fun to make deerclop with an attack making him "better oriented for multiplayer" ? For a giant that will spawn each winter ? Is it fun if, for a reason or another you are alone at the moment (playing solo, friends are dead, your friends are disconnected, friends can't manage deerclop) ? Some bosses are more multiplayer oriented but you can choose to wait for friends to start the fight. Here you can't really.

 

So yeah, i would like fights more fun and challenging and all the stuff but it's hard to do. And if not done well it make the game more tedious and instead of fighting bosses and all, people will avoid them more, leading to a post "i don't understand no one fight giant, they abuse the game letting them fight each other or fighting treeguard." and will lead to more ideas to "fix" this that will make the game more tedious...

I look at it like devs look at the weaver; things in multiplayer will always be easier when done with others, because you can drain more damage more quickly. What I think should be done is that boss fights should be challenging for multiple players, while being hard if you do it alone. Not tediously unmanagable, but hard.

So, may be in the Deerclops' case, the freeze attack could be countered if you're on a road/cobblestones and with a walking cane, so while he might get you caught in by freezing you a little, he won't be able to fully freeze you enough. And this attack only occurring once he's below half health, in the case of a single player.

In the case of multiple players, the attack would be more prevalent, but you could kill him quicker.

Aside from the first paragraph, I could quite understand you here and to some extent agree with you.

In terms of your first paragraph, yes, precisely, implementing things in ways that you can't simply exploit, so for example, randomised attack patterns and attack periods to make the player not able to become a god once they know how to "hit and run". Because that, while being a bit of a skill, is a simple one that creates a commotion of you ruling the world, which the game never intended you to do. You were supposed to struggle from the things it throws at you and die if you make huge mistakes. Right now you do die from making huge mistakes, however you don't struggle at all once you know it. And I wish the game could provide me with challenge even when I know it all, because then I can experience it like it was supposed to be and have a reason to play it. Because what is the point when your entire gameplay in DST revolves around exploiting mechanics in a way that makes the game so easy, you wonder why you're playing again and again anyway. In my case, it was a bit of an addiction, but I've gone past that and only use the game for testing purposes right now.

3 hours ago, fimmatek said:

That's exactly why I don't want these changes in DST, or at least preserve the game and publish such changes in a dlc, as DST2 or idk... Sure these would make the game more challenging for those who already can kill the giant, but others would just avoid them even more and only a few would waste their time to practice and get better.

The outcomes are the same for newcomers, however:

Current deerclops - they die.

Changed deerclops - they die.

 

For us pros it's a different story, however:

Current deerclops - eezee peezy, eyeball squeezee

Changed deerclops - well, I better get ready or I'm done for :(

 

The game could have different difficulties for things implemented in some way, I guess, if this does turn out to be that big of a problem for new players. However, I do think that the game should do a better job at hinting the players in the right direction, which it currently does not do. Why do you see so many people make threads about "how do you beat this boss!? Agh!" or "how do you do this?! I can't seem to do it!"

But we never know, unless we test it, I guess.

5 hours ago, Mananu said:

This title is totally wrong. To put a title like this, you have to have all the community supporting you, which this may not be the case. Some of your ideas might sound good on paper, but in reality are hard to implement them in the game. I don't agree with some changes like using Wickerbottom's book On Tentacles only on swamp turfs or tumbleweeds appearing only in summer which this could be a unbalanced and unfair thing for new players since they will have to go in the ruins to get some gears or pray for some clockworks on the surface. You can't force Klei to take only your suggestions in consideration just because you make the best decisions for the game or your name is ''EuedeAdodooedoe''. We are a community and you have to understand you are not the only one who suggest things. Also I've been noticing if someone is not having the same opinion as you, you immediately get upset which this shows a lack of maturity. Please, next time put a better title and don't pretend you have better ideas and suggestions than everyone else. This topic shows exactly this. Sorry if I sound like I want to fight with you but I don't agree with most of the changes.

I did outline that part of this are my own thoughts though, didn't I? Not all of this is just mine.

I don't know why you think I always think my suggestions are better. I know for a fact that I have suggestions that aren't fully covering every possible issue that could be with the game. I even outline this is my hammering issue, which I had to think quite a bit about, because it's so much harder to deal with than fire griefing.

Also, I have mentioned that the next thread will be something different, which will address some of the things I think need change, but generally things that I know some others agree with me. You'll see once it's done.

1 hour ago, Palecwsmalec1 said:

Well, i made it through the wall of text, but it's so long i'm starting to forget some details.

A lot of people have shared their thoughts on how you express your opinions, so i won't go for that right now even though it does bother me. I'll talk about the rebalance ideas that i really have a problem with.

Tumbleweeds and the desert in general

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This idea doesn't make sense in the slightest. DST needs more noob friendly options - this is essentially preventing newbies from gathering important materials unless they joined in the middle of summer. I've joined winter or spring servers before with no way to really bounce back and get in the game because the resources were scarce and didn't regrow fast enough. I was quickly running out of materials, but then i found the desert. I gathered a stack of twigs and grass and was able to- you know, actually play the game?

I've never heard of Buzzard abuse. I guess you could implement that change, but again - it ruins the deserty feel. You talked about how missing boulders and beehives made the flat patches of area too boring and lifeless- think about how the desert would look like without those iconic tumbles and vultures. Just a bunch of rocks and dogs, and occasionally something like the oasis or dragonfly nest.

Finally, volt goats and lightning rods. I guess this change is alright, not many problems there. by the time spring hits you should be prepared enough to fight volt goats so /shrug

Boss balancing

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Yea sure let's make Deerclops nearly impossible to beat without a friend or orange gem in your first winter. Great idea. :wilson_tranquil:

The Bearger ideas are.. i dunno, annoying is the right word i suppose. Nothing better than getting your 100% thulecite armor get instantly smashed to bits from a fast, nearly unavoidable attack. Or insta-dying because you weren't careful enough or accidentally walked past while the bearger was preparing to pounce. Urgh.

Goose is, again, alright i suppose. I'm not too crazy about it though, the boss is already frustrating enough as is.

so that's basically my thoughts on these ideas. I have some gripes with the other stuff too, but i don't feel like writing up another essay.

I have addressed newbies via the "Charlie's Reign" thing, which in fact was the first thing I posted. Tumbleweeds currently are quite OP if you do enough grinding (which the game requires you to do for many other things anyway, sadly). The key thing is to help newcomers, but not make it easier for the late game players. DST doesn't do too great of a job at progression unfortunately and you get events for newcomers that they could never even have time to prepare for, even if you're a pro and get bosses that are as easy as whacking a giant pinata.

And I simply suggested one new attack for deerclops and bearger. I didn't do too much of explaining how or when this should happen in my first post, because, whooptee doo, I don't know exactly how to balance it well for both mid-game and late-game players. I can just give an idea of what could be done with this, which may not be the best. Devs can take what I have outlined here and address them in a way they think is best, hell, even in a way that is completely different to what I have proposed. But the bottom line is, these are some of the type of issues that need addressing and I'm trying to propose what could be done with them.

5 hours ago, Aeschwutz said:

Remember when EuedeAdodooedoe posted this kind of post like way back last year like this

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Fresh memories.

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You know what I mean.

 

No, I don't know what you mean. That thread was made in hopes of getting an entire overhaul for certain parts of the game, however I've grown to accept that this won't and probably shouldn't be in the official game and that the game can be made great without making an overhaul to it all.

 

I will retitle the topic slightly. If anything in the post goes contrary to what I've just said or the title, well, I really am not too willing to go through it all again, just keep that in mind.

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