How would you rate player ability?

[Alarsin]

6 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

What? How are these exclusive to beginners? Extra inventory space is useful to players of all skill levels, and survival mode is the most punishing mode available. I mean you don't have any risk of losing your world, and you can respawn for free on endless or wilderness mode. So wouldn't these be the beginner choices?

Yes, but most of the beginners don't know how to change the game mode/enable caves.

Backpack is very useful on the earliest stages of the game/in the ruins, but when you're just building base/hunting/etc you don't need to carry a lot of stuff. There are many useful items for the body slot, such as magilumenescence (hope I spelled it right), hibernation vest, rain coat, hunger belt. 

[Alarsin]

4 hours ago, Palecwsmalec1 said:

I'm sorry, but this argument annoys me to no end. I see a lot of elitist players claiming that you should "drop your backpack" because it'll help you "learn about inventory management", yet no one considers the fact that we can still manage our inventory even with a backpack, so the extra inventory slots barely make a difference. And being able to carry more loot from your hunting trip is a plus of backpacks too. If apparently being able to consistently kite every enemy perfectly is an attribute of pro players, why would they need to wear armor all the time, like y'all are implying? And i know that it frees up a slot for seasonal equipment, but to be honest you can easily just pack an umbrella or thermal stone WITHOUT sacrificing your inventory space because "muh backpack is a noob trap"

I don't think it's a "noob trap". Backpack IS helpful, but only on days ~1-20. You don't have to carry your whole base in your pockets. Also, with umbrella equipped, you can't fight. Thermal stone protects you from freezing only for ~3 minutes. With a tam-o-shanter and a puffy vest equipped, you can travel for more than a day without a heat source.

[Toros]

6 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I was gonna say!--wouldn't a noob be the player who DOES go around destroying unrenewable resources, _because they don't yet know the consequences_?  And...why would anyone want to knowingly do this on purpose? To me doing stuff like digging up rabbit holes or mushrooms is a sign of impatience, lack of game-knowledge and probably also immaturity.

Anyway.  I...don't agree with the categories as _any_one has written them here so far.  This whole thread is way too combat-worshippy without acknowledging that other skills are valuable too.  I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that if you don't single-combat bosses, you're a bad player.  If this was a game where combat was absolutely necessary and you couldn't progress without it, full stop, then sure.  But this game is a sandbox that gives you OPTIONS--and that's one of the awesome things about it!

Exploring, trickery, knowledge of the land, crafting, recipes, knowing the ins-and-outs of how the world ticks and being able to deal with the seasons--even when they surprise you!--are perfectly legit abilities too.  Maybe we could have more than one category per "rank", like "Intermediate Survivor" and "Intermediate Fighter" or something?  The way this thread is written so far, it makes it sound as if strategic players who can survive a whole year without a base, no problem are on the same level as those who don't know that beefalo go red-butt sometimes.  That is definitely NOT the case!

...Notorious

This is what happens when an intermediate player thinks they're advanced, and tries to justify it.

 

This sort of thread tends to attract two types of undesireables.  The veteran noobs, who have been around a long time but aren't very good (Chaotica, for example) and the extreme elitists who think if you don't play optimally at all times (edgy rick, for example)

 

The first group will try to tell you that it's impossible to effectively make skill categories because they don't like where it places them, and the second has a desperate need to feel superior so they act like unless you know everything you know nothing.

 

Fortunately there are some good, reasonable categories like those produced by shadowduelist and mencken that will fit the majority of the players in this game.

 

Also, as a pre-rebuttal, skill level already accounts for playstyle because it's about what you are /able/ to do, not how you play.  There's nothing wrong with making a surface superbase and never going into the ruins or fighting fuelweaver, but an advanced player is able to do those things effectively.

 

Also lol at "combat-worshipping" when it's trivially easy to survive if avoiding combat.  The only bosses you'll see all year are bearger and deerclops, which can be safely and effectively solo'd by an intermediate player.  Easy kiting patterns, great loot.  Advanced players are going to fight all the bosses so they can get the drops because combat is one of the few ways you can even fail in this game.

[CaptainChaotica]

I think I would disagree a bit with the "Extreme Beginner" listed earlier--a REALLY Extreme Beginner is someone who doesn't even know yet that light at night is _not_ optional, or who is so unfamiliar with any character other than the one they picked, they say things like "We need to revive the ghost" when a Wendy with Abigail walks in. 

(I'm sorry, I know it's a bit mean, but that _still_ cracked me the hell up.  : P  When I realised just WHO they were talking "to" with the "Go to the portal and click on it, you'll revive" I was like _wow_...  Even better?  The server in question is SURVIVAL, not Endless!)

I also feel that coming from singleplayer Don't Starve would be a _help_, not a hindrance, as you already know the basics of how the world works and things like "Winter happens?!  OHMYGOD!", are already prepared for summer wildfires, know that if you steal a Tallbird's egg be prepared to run a LONG time, etc.  And I'm not just saying this because that was _my_ background going into Together...although it was.  : P  Knowing the basics of how the world in general works so that all you have to learn is the _Together_-only stuff...means you start off knowing the basics.  (shrug) 

...although us singleplayer vets DO have to break ourselves of the habit of OMGGRABEVERYTHING.  Heh.

And no, this topic isn't actually important...but human beings like to rank and categorise themselves, and when it comes to gaming nobody wants to be seen as the dreaded Noob.  Most of us definitely started that way.  (I...technically didn't in this case, but that's because I started off watching a Let's Play out of curiosity about the game itself, then _kept_ watching because it was entertaining.  That taught me stuff like the tallbird-egg thing, darkness, winter is coming and don't get too close to a red-butt beefie.)

I don't at all see myself as _good_?  but I do not at ALL want to be thrown aside as "Pff, you're one of _those_ players", like I don't even matter, because I'd rather lure Deerclops into the swamp instead of fight him one-on-one.  As long as he's dead, the base is intact and no cheating happened...does it matter?  So...yeah, I'm just trying to lump myself in with "not the bottom", rather than anywhere near the actual top.  : P

...Notorious

[CaptainChaotica]

Wow, Toros.  PHRACK you.  "Veteran noob" ? Good GOD why do so many people have to be such _arseholes_ about how others play this game.  Oh, little ignore list!  Come here, buddy!  I've got another snack for you.

You know what makes _me_ dismiss a person as "not mattering"? When they act like THAT!  Especially towards someone who has done _nothing_ to them personally, and completely doesn't deserve that.

GOOD-bye!

(KNEW this thread was gonna go here eventually.  Freaking KNEW it.  Hoped to death it'd stay civil, but noooo, that's not possible around here...!)

EDIT:  Well, at least it seems others do agree with me on the "Combat isn't everything when it comes to evaluating skill" thing--if the number of likes my first post in this thread have gotten is any indication.  I'm not alone on that. 

People like Toros are probably gonna be like "Well that means there's a lot of noobs who _think_ they're good playing this game!" but, screw that.  I know I am not a noob.  I have never PRETENDED to be advanced, but instead have always presented my skill level both in the game and here exactly as it is.  All I'm saying is that I don't SUCK, and I _know_ I don't.  I am confident of that much at least.  I can survive for hundreds of days on my own in any combination of seasons.  I always have materials on hand to help anybody who joins at night or in a bad season not immediately die (backpacks for the win, y'all).  And I always explore and gather rather than just turtle at base during summer/winter.  Heck, sometimes I can even get leeches to contribute simply by using the right words!

I KNOW I'm not any kind of "noob" or "pretender", but instead a comfortable hunter-gatherer-survivalist.  And I don't need the approval of gamer-elitists to tell me that.

...Notorious

[Sarsapiri]

Fresh Meat: Player who just bought their first Don't Starve game (DS/DST)

Beginner: Someone who is starting to know the basics, and can at least survive until day 20 and inconsistently to day 30

Learning: Player who has learned most of the basics, and can consistently get to day 30 and occasionally defeat deerclops

Intermediate: Can survive winter + Deerclops on a regular basis.

Higher Intermediate: Can survive all 4 seasons on a regular basis, can take down all 4 seasonal giants with little trouble

Advanced: Can survive multiple years easily, and can start to reliably take down one or more of the raid bosses with 1-3 players (klaus, BQ, AG, DF, ETC)

Elite: Can survive forever with no trouble, can solo multiple of the raid bosses with little to no trouble

Legend: Can survive forever easily, can solo next to all raid bosses (toad and AF very likely aren't part of this group), Doesn't main wendy.

[56933043043]

21 minutes ago, Toros said:

This is what happens when an intermediate player thinks they're advanced, and tries to justify it.

This sort of thread tends to attract two types of undesireables.  The veteran noobs, who have been around a long time but aren't very good (Chaotica, for example) and the extreme elitists who think if you don't play optimally at all times (edgy rick, for example)

The first group will try to tell you that it's impossible to effectively make skill categories because they don't like where it places them, and the second has a desperate need to feel superior so they act like unless you know everything you know nothing.

Also lol at "combat-worshipping" when it's trivially easy to survive if avoiding combat.  The only bosses you'll see all year are bearger and deerclops, which can be safely and effectively solo'd by an intermediate player.  Easy kiting patterns, great loot.  Advanced players are going to fight all the bosses so they can get the drops because combat is one of the few ways you can even fail in this game.

Branding groups of people and specific users as "undesirable" in a public discussion forum is counterproductive to the discussion and very rude.

The point of a discussion is to enrich your point of view with that of others and to learn shared information, not to merely assert your stance and take jabs at users you specifically don't want to consider.

Regarding the last point, I think Chaotica was referring to "combat-worshipping" from other users, since most of them included "can solo Fuelweaver/boss mob" in their advanced/expert categories. You're right in that combat is not at all mandatory in this game. If anything, she was more or less wondering why everyone else found it so important in their lists.

[absimiliard]

26 minutes ago, Toros said:

.... The veteran noobs, who have been around a long time but aren't very good (Chaotica, for example)  .....

 

If you are going to take the effort to directly insult someone Toros I would prefer that you insult me.  Seeing as I was the person who set up the first of the non-Klei DST servers -- back when I was reviewing the various service-providers at the time I have inarguably been around a longer time AND seeing as Chaotica doesn't constantly die I am also indisputably more Noob than he/she/they are.

 

I, also, don't give a flying **** about what you or anyone thinks of my skill-level -- whereas you have clearly insulted and hurt Chaotica.

 

Can I get a mod in here please, this thread now needs locking.

 

[CaptainChaotica]

Chaos2:  Now THAT sounds a little more accurate of descriptions.    It's got more than just three categories and the emphasis isn't completely on combat as a measure of skill--I notice that the wording is "can TAKE DOWN all four seasonal bosses", rather than "solo" or whatever.  This means that tricking them into other stuff that kills them for you can still count!  Kudos! (And if that isn't actually what you meant, take the compliment anyway.  : P)

But at any rate, I do like the idea of finer-grained categories than just "Noob, intermediate and expert" (and MLGPRO).  According to this list, I'd be a "Higher intermediate", and THAT, I can actually see.

Also, thanks guys.  It means a lot.

...Notorious

[Rellimarual]

Rank beginner: Immediately asks for base and can't survive without being constantly rescued

Good player: Can support self, is cooperative and game to try new things, has a sense of humor and humility in the face of Them

Best player: Figured out how to kill Bearger with red mushrooms

Worst player: Is obsessed with ranking other players and their own position in a nonexistent and silly hierarchy

[JustAPineapple]

21 minutes ago, Chaos2 said:

Legend: Can survive forever easily, can solo next to all raid bosses (toad and AF very likely aren't part of this group), Doesn't main wendy.

What does that have to do with anything?

[MondayNight]

*subjectiveness of the thread intensifies at solo-speedrun-kiting levels; grabs popcorn*

[CaptainChaotica]

Yeah, that's the part of that I didn't like either.  : P  (Mainly because I'm sick and tired of "MY CHARACTER COULD BEAT UP _YOUR_ CHARACTER!"  "NUH-UH!"  "COULD SO!"  "COULD NOT!" comparison threads that get insulty almost _instantly_ against the "peasants" who play Character(s) Poster Doesn't Personally Like Here.  Not to say Chaos2's post was quite like _that_, but, in general.) Other than that it was a decent list, though.

...Notorious

[Palecwsmalec1]

46 minutes ago, Alarsin said:

I don't think it's a "noob trap". Backpack IS helpful, but only on days ~1-20. You don't have to carry your whole base in your pockets. Also, with umbrella equipped, you can't fight. Thermal stone protects you from freezing only for ~3 minutes. With a tam-o-shanter and a puffy vest equipped, you can travel for more that a day without a heat source.

Well i guess if backpacks are only helpful on days 1-20, i suppose we should all stop hunting krampus sacks because they're effectively useless too, right? I mean, it's not like we could use that extra inventory space for collecting a ton of resources or anything, because  dropping all your things on the ground and making several trips to the nearby forest to grab a bunch of wood is more logical than just taking a backpack and getting everything in one go, right?

"With umbrella equipped, you can't fight" So? it's not like fights should take any longer than a couple of minutes, and if you're THAT scared of wetness or have no items to counteract wetness freezing or sanity loss, you're simply unprepared. Unequipping an umbrella for a few seconds and fighting off a hound attack or kiting a treeguard or anything at all really shouldn't be that bad, especially if you can simply burn a tree and stand under it with an umbrella for a couple of seconds to dry out quick and easy.

Tam o shanter and puffy vest? Why not just equip a beefalo hat and get rid of any need for a puffy vest ever? It's not like you require the tam o shanter at every waking moment of your life, and it actually has less insulation than a beef hat. Thermal stone is still useful for holding out that extra couple of minutes - Even if you live a nomadic lifestyle or travel much in the winter, the beefalo hat will protect you from the cold if the thermal stone runs out. And if you're wilson, webber or woodie, you have free insulation on top of that, increasing your longevity in the winter. A full bearded wilson can easily wear a tam o shanter with nothing else and survive for a long time in the dead of winter.

If there comes a need to fight - what's the problem? you can simply equip armor and drop the backpack for a second, then when you're done fighting just pick it back up again. there's no need to drop or remove your backpack, it's an objectively bad route. there's many more efficient things you can try instead of wearing that puffy vest or rain coat, and any downsides that come with those can simply be solved by unequipping the backpack or umbrella for a while.

[Mr.Tarunio]

maybe the thread should be locked?

[fimmatek]

This thread shows very well why DST doesn't have XP ranking and leaderboard.

[Mr.Tarunio]

1 minute ago, fimmatek said:

This thread shows very well why DST doesn't have XP ranking and leaderboard.

and achiements.....unless you play the ps4.

[Palecwsmalec1]

Hm, well i guess i haven't been talking about the point of this thread much, but i guess i'll go ahead now and get it over with before this gets locked.

 

Player - plays the game, talks with people, socializes and survives.

Loner - forgets the fact that the game is "don't starve together"

Asshat - rates other people based on their skill level and insults them personally because they don't fit his personal viewpoint of how to play the game.

[CaptainChaotica]

Exactly.

Also yes to the stuff about hats instead of vests and ditching the backpack (permanently) being pointless.  I go out on a lot of hunter/gatherer runs. Why on earth would I want to have LESS slots available to store the loot I find?

No offense to those who _don't_ use backpacks, more power to you--but I think there's nothing wrong with USING them either.  I too get through the winter just fine with a beefalo hat and thermal stone.  Heck, sometimes _earmuffs_ and a thermal stone if I spawned too far away from the beefalo and can't get to them in time. Carrying fire materials on you at all times is handy for more than just the light, too.

...Notorious

[Mencken]

Curator,

The ability to make games interesting is an unappreciated quality and the over emphasis on killing skills does make the experience rather dry.    Was in a game recently in which players were shouting out their accomplishments in speed runs, "got 13 orange gems", "killed ancient guardian", all in the first few seasons.   Great, but there is so much more to it than just this, every day I come up with new ideas, yesterday I made stone "mile markers" with each set at a screen length.   

[Toros]

1 hour ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Wow, Toros.  PHRACK you.  "Veteran noob" ? Good GOD why do so many people have to be such _arseholes_ about how others play this game.  Oh, little ignore list!  Come here, buddy!  I've got another snack for you.

You know what makes _me_ dismiss a person as "not mattering"? When they act like THAT!  Especially towards someone who has done _nothing_ to them personally, and completely doesn't deserve that.

GOOD-bye!

(KNEW this thread was gonna go here eventually.  Freaking KNEW it.  Hoped to death it'd stay civil, but noooo, that's not possible around here...!)

EDIT:  Well, at least it seems others do agree with me on the "Combat isn't everything when it comes to evaluating skill" thing--if the number of likes my first post in this thread have gotten is any indication.  I'm not alone on that. 

People like Toros are probably gonna be like "Well that means there's a lot of noobs who _think_ they're good playing this game!" but, screw that.  I know I am not a noob.  I have never PRETENDED to be advanced, but instead have always presented my skill level both in the game and here exactly as it is.  All I'm saying is that I don't SUCK, and I _know_ I don't.  I am confident of that much at least.  I can survive for hundreds of days on my own in any combination of seasons.  I always have materials on hand to help anybody who joins at night or in a bad season not immediately die (backpacks for the win, y'all).  And I always explore and gather rather than just turtle at base during summer/winter.  Heck, sometimes I can even get leeches to contribute simply by using the right words!

I KNOW I'm not any kind of "noob" or "pretender", but instead a comfortable hunter-gatherer-survivalist.  And I don't need the approval of gamer-elitists to tell me that.

...Notorious

I'm not saying you suck either, but you definitely have some positions that are limiting your ability to improve and you don't appear to be comfortable calling yourself a casual player while consistently making casual player gameplay choices.

 

The reason I wouldn't advocate leading bosses into beefalo to kill them is because they're not hard to learn to kite.  I 100% believe you could learn to do it consistently, but not if you avoid oppurtunities.

 

Literally every player falls on a spectrum between Joeshmo doing a lights out adventure mode 1 hp wes run, and someone brand new to the game that'll die the first night to charlie.

 

The best players know every strategy for dealing with a particular challenge, but combat is the most difficult part of this game because surviving is a pre-requisite.  Being able to survive well gives more supplies and room for mistakes in combat, which is why fighting is a higher difficulty task and why it puts people in a more advanced category.

 

I hit you in a sore spot because you've been demonstrating a lot of insecurity around your skill level and trying to argue that your skill at the basics of survival is equivalent to someone who can handle the combat challenges, which simply isn't true.  They need to survive well to make it to the combat challenges and be in a position where they can win.

 

Where it becomes an issue is when you're in a thread that has some objectivity to it and you have an emotional spot you're protecting that really isn't rooted in fact.  Emotional biases were why Warly was nerfed despite no mechanical need for it, largely driven by people who felt his start was too easy because they didn't see where he fell short in later challenges because it wasn't content they attempt.

 

There's nothing wrong with the way you play but it makes you biased in hunting vs gathering mechanical discussions and as we've seen, rather see yourself as "advanced intermediate" vs "intermediate" when it shouldn't matter to you, and the word "noob" shouldn't be such a sore spot.

 

No one gets good at combat except by doing it, which you 100% could do if you stopped avoiding the hard stuff.  It's holding you back, so you either need to put some time in to expand your options in-game, or make peace with it.

 

Also, be really wary of people "coming to your rescue" here because these forums have a tendency to avoid harsh facts and avoid conflict even when it's productive.  It's supportive to the point it lets people make excuses which ultimately doesn't help them.

[Palecwsmalec1]

5 minutes ago, Toros said:

Also, be really wary of people "coming to your rescue" here because these forums have a tendency to avoid harsh facts and avoid conflict even when it's productive.  It's supportive to the point it lets people make excuses which ultimately doesn't help them.

In other words, whiteknighting.

[Nanoking308]

This is how I rank beginner, intermediate, advanced, and expert:

Beginner: Knows the very basics (like surviving night), can survive 5-20 days themselves. 

Intermediate: Can survive winter, can take down the Deerclops, knows basic base planning, knows how to kite a few mobs, knows a few farming techniques.

Advanced: Can survive a year, can defeat all the seasonal bosses, knows advanced base planning, knows how to kite most of the mobs, knows most of the farming techniques.

Expert: Can survive forever, can defeat all bosses, knows all the exploits and such in the game, can kite everything easily, knows all the farming techniques.

I think using backpacks is good for until spring, then its probably time to try getting the krampus sack.  I get through winter with a winter hat/ beefalo hat and I try getting a puffy vest as soon as winter starts. I always have a thermal stone next to the fire pit during winter, but always forgets to pick it up when I go out of base.

Well, that's all I have to say.

[Kittydub]

It seems like a lot of people in here base their 'ratings' on their fighting skills, while there are many other, valid ways to play the game. The fighting every giant strat is not better or more fun or whatever against letting the world kill stuff for you. It's just however you like to play. Judging each other because of these personal choices and putting them in a box, telling they are limiting themselves.. It's total ******** to me. I'm not even going to start to express my feelings about the personal attacks I have read here. 

People learn what they want to learn. I don't learn how to kite Dragonfly, because her drops don't interest me one bit. Same with Toadstool. Am I a casual player now according to many here? Sure seems like I am then. Even though I survive when I have to, I have fun when I want and I fight when the world forces me too. 

The other topic was a way better perspective about players in general. This topic is a mess. 

 

[CaptainChaotica]

Sigh.

Not EVERY guy who sticks up for something a female says (or the other way around, for that matter) is a "white knight" douchebag who's just trying to get laid.  Sometimes, there's this thing called...actually being nice?  I bet guys who actually ARE decent, polite human beings who get accused of that all the time online get _really_ sick of it.

Sorry, but that's a modern attitude that REALLY bugs me.  :\  In this case...maybe the people sticking up for me actually DID agree with at least some of what I was saying, or really DID think Toros was going too far with the personal attacks?  It's a possibility, anyway. 

...Notorious