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[Q] Hound mounds? Why...?


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2 hours ago, Cheetos said:

rules against hammering Pig / Bunnymen

Why? Hammering Pig Houses is the fastest way to get Ham Bats, Football Helmets, and more Pig Houses, and it's even better when you kill the pigs too, and even more when you turn them into werepigs first. Same with Bunny Hutches. The fastest way to get more Bunny Hutches is to destroy Bunny Hutches.

It's only bad when you don't intend on replanting the houses/hutches, but still, there is usually more than enough houses and hutches for everyone.

I agree with not destroying Hound Mounds and Spider Nests though as they are non-renewable. You can destroy them if the mobs they spawn are giving you more trouble than their worth, but usually hounds and spiders are dead if you hold down F for a few seconds as any character anyway.

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1 hour ago, TemporaryMan said:

corrected values

Oops! that mistake, fixed it thank you.

47 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Why? Hammering Pig Houses is the fastest way to get Ham Bats, Football Helmets, and more Pig Houses, and it's even better when you kill the pigs too, and even more when you turn them into werepigs first. Same with Bunny Hutches. The fastest way to get more Bunny Hutches is to destroy Bunny Hutches.

That wouldn't be too bad if it actually worked out that way, it's super easy to get Ham Bats / Football Helmets off the starting pigs as they are with MM. (Replace with wiggy helms even if you have wiggys around). Smashing them IS faster but, the issue with Pigs / Bunny Hutches is always this:

Player Logic A: I'll just hammer them in this Biome for early Ham Bats / Helmets and use the other materials for building, it's only just these and somebody else will replace them for newcomers!

Player Logic B: I will rebuild them all in my base at an obscure location, newcomers can make it to the caves/ruins if they want pigs right? right!

The combination of A and B players constantly left 1-2 Pig Houses on the surface and 1-2 Bunny Hutches left out of the rabbit villages in the caves. Meaning anybody who needed the resource for their own base/gear were pretty much out of luck. Or needed to dump far more time into rebuilding the villages from scratch to get resources flowing. Smashing is great for single player speedruns, but it's been a bad habbit in long-term multiplayer servers. It makes it harder for others. So that's part of the origin of the rules respecting the non-world regrowth items of the world I assume.

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4 hours ago, Cheetos said:

 

  • Varg Farms are arguably better, but you have a 5% chance day one up to a 33% chance day 100 to spawn one from Suspicious Dirt and you need to trap it for personal use. They also get killed off accidentally by Frog Rain with only 1,800 HP by the less cautious players lol. The Hound Mounds in the D-FLY desert are always there.

 

Actually if obstructed by world gen, you can often get 0 hound mound spawns in the case of some worlds I have made. But for the most part you'll always have mounds.

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1 hour ago, JohnWatson said:

I agree with not destroying Hound Mounds and Spider Nests though as they are non-renewable. You can destroy them if the mobs they spawn are giving you more trouble than their worth, but usually hounds and spiders are dead if you hold down F for a few seconds as any character anyway.

Not only can webber craft more, but when a spider queen spawns they can often leave their nest behind, getting 1 from spider queen and another from the one she left behind!

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I have NEVER gotten a red or blue gem from a tumbleweed, although I have gotten Ruins gems on multiple occasions. Not that I mind, since I usually end up with more red and blue gems than I could ever find a use for. They get to be like flint after a while.

Hammering a bunch of pig houses on a large-capacity public server is definitely a peeve because you're hoarding an important resource for your own base. It's also handy to have pigs scattered across the map for players who are nomadic or just forage a lot. But if you're just playing with a smalll regular group that shares everything, then of course it's fine, I guess. Personally I like to run into pigs living by themselves in remote corners of the map. The world seems lonelier without them.

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25 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

I have NEVER gotten a red or blue gem from a tumbleweed

I have gotten an orange and a yellow gem but was looking for tentacle spots, which of course I did not get.

I think that if it's your solo world or just with friends then do whatever you want, destroy the whole map if you like, plunder everything, because that's what humans do. Just don't do it on a public server or private server or anywhere that isn't yours. In my solo world there are only one or two mounds left. I decided that I don't need them in my world and was using a frog rain to my advantage. My desert looks a lot more peaceful now.

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Anything that spawns a creature with remotely applicable drops is valuable seeing as there is no average method to which they respawn naturally, no zones with infinitely re-spawning grindable enemies here.

Destroying things like spider nests, beehives and hound mounds would not be a problem if Klei made the world regenerate them if the amount dips below a certain level, at least then players would not have to live in fear of a world literally running out of a certain kind of mob.

But they cannot be bothered to add that feature in, it seems. Maybe someday. After Winona and the Rose Collection.

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1 hour ago, The Curator said:

Anything that spawns a creature with remotely applicable drops is valuable seeing as there is no average method to which they respawn naturally, no zones with infinitely re-spawning grindable enemies here.

Destroying things like spider nests, beehives and hound mounds would not be a problem if Klei made the world regenerate them if the amount dips below a certain level, at least then players would not have to live in fear of a world literally running out of a certain kind of mob.

But they cannot be bothered to add that feature in, it seems. Maybe someday. After Winona and the Rose Collection.

The game would be to easy than, they did that on purpose 

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10 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Why? Hammering Pig Houses is the fastest way to get Ham Bats, Football Helmets, and more Pig Houses

 

10 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

he fastest way to get more Bunny Hutches is to destroy Bunny Hutches.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!

The fastest way to get any and all of that is farm the CURRENTLY existing thing.  When you smash them all and then rebuild them you actually only have HALF of what you started with, so right out the gate you're wrong.

@Cheetos pretty summed it all up perfectly and nothing more is required from me.  All in all in the end remember and consider (at least in random public servers) YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY PERSON PLAYING. 

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8 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!

The fastest way to get any and all of that is farm the CURRENTLY existing thing.  When you smash them all and then rebuild them you actually only have HALF of what you started with, so right out the gate you're wrong.

@Cheetos pretty summed it all up perfectly and nothing more is required from me.  All in all in the end remember and consider (at least in random public servers) YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY PERSON PLAYING. 

Pig Houses and Bunny Hutches do drop half the resources when hammered, true. However, they are very easily renewable especially if you build a bunch in one place to farm the pigs and bunnymen.

Also, hammering down houses and hutches means that you can relocate them. I don't want to walk all the way to a pig village or to the caves whenever I want to get pigskin and meat. Hammering down random pig houses scattered around forests won't do any real harm anyway as long as you leave houses in populated locations intact, such as those near the pig king or built by other players near their base.

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You feel very trollie @JohnWatson, like no matter what I say you're just gonna come up with the same dumb argument over and over, repeating yourself endlessly like I didn't already address EXACTLY what you said and answer it as thoroughly as it needs to be.  Not only that but I feel like I already had this dumb argument and it was with you to boot  as well I think.  So Im done here cause Im not in the mood for repeating myself endlessly to someone who either doesn't want to listen or is pretending like he isn't listening.  You want to know my argument against just refer to the already made comments by me and others who have already explained this simple concept to you.

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2 minutes ago, Clwnbaby said:

You feel very trollie @JohnWatson, like no matter what I say you're just gonna come up with the same dumb argument over and over, repeating yourself endlessly like I didn't already address EXACTLY what you said and answer it as thoroughly as it needs to be.  Not only that but I feel like I already had this dumb argument and it was with you to boot  as well I think.  So Im done here cause Im not in the mood for repeating myself endlessly to someone who either doesn't want to listen or is pretending like he isn't listening.  You want to know my argument against just refer to the already made comments by me and others who have already explained this simple concept to you.

Jesus Christ, mate, I understand what you mean, it's just that I disagree with you. Just because I don't immediately accept what you say as fact doesn't mean I have any malicious intent. It's because, you know, not everyone has the same opinion.

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14 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Pig Houses and Bunny Hutches do drop half the resources when hammered, true. However, they are very easily renewable especially if you build a bunch in one place to farm the pigs and bunnymen.

Also, hammering down houses and hutches means that you can relocate them. I don't want to walk all the way to a pig village or to the caves whenever I want to get pigskin and meat. Hammering down random pig houses scattered around forests won't do any real harm anyway as long as you leave houses in populated locations intact, such as those near the pig king or built by other players near their base.

I'm more inclined to agree with bunny hutches because people aren't going to really waste the bunny puffs, whereas pigskin can easily get used up on helms and hambats. Not to mention they're usually quite spread out/not that useful in their original locations, and are more efficient to farm when they're clumped up. I'd rather that spider forest pig houses get left where they are as they give easy and efficient access to Werepigs for anyone joining. Hammering one house is equivalent to killing two Werepigs so I don't see any reason to hammer them unless I'm playing on a solo world and want to quickly build a pig farm. I think lone pig houses away from the pig villages/spiders could be more of a grey area.

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Just now, Tosh said:

I'd rather that spider forest pig houses get left where they are as they give easy and efficient access to Werepigs for anyone joining.

Makes sense. If there's spiders nearby, most likely players locating the pig house would have some monster meat to feed the pig. A player travelling with monster meat in their inventory won't have much use for it anyway, so I guess feeding them to a pigman is a no-brainer.

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Basically there's no reason to keep hound mounds because no one needs more teeth than are provided by hound waves, and there are much faster ways to get gems than the absolutely ridiculous idea that I'm going to die and haunt hounds for a few measly gems.

 

The only people arguing otherwise are doing so because they have philosophical issues with extinction of a resource, no matter how useless that resource may be.  Because hound mounds 99% of the time are either ignored or destroyed and it's absolutely fine.

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2 minutes ago, Toros said:

Basically there's no reason to keep hound mounds because no one needs more teeth than are provided by hound waves, and there are much faster ways to get gems than the absolutely ridiculous idea that I'm going to die and haunt hounds for a few measly gems.

 

The only people arguing otherwise are doing so because they have philosophical issues with extinction of a resource, no matter how useless that resource may be.  Because hound mounds 99% of the time are either ignored or destroyed and it's absolutely fine.

Name some gem methods that also produce food without caves, that is faster than it

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36 minutes ago, Destros09 said:

Name some gem methods that also produce food without caves, that is faster than it

This is an impressively ridiculous request.  Caves predate RoG, a server without them in DST is missing core content.  Food is not an issue at any point in the game during an autumn start.

Even with that said however, the answer is dragonfly.  

 

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16 hours ago, Cheetos said:

 

  • I play Wigfrid, Hounds from Mounds are 100% chance to drop Monster Meat, as opposed to waiting on hound waves (which you may not get a spawn for yourself anyway). Extremely easy early game food compared to spiders that have a 50% chance for MM, 25% for gland / silk. Generally using both is enough to get you through Autumn with little effort, but Hound farming is OP surface food early on. Get a Bird Cage / Crock Pot up and it's useful resources for other Characters too. Give 4 MM to a pig for Meat / 2x Pig Skin. Food / Pig Houses / Ham Bat for early boss rush?
     
  • Red Gems / Blue Gems farms, appropriate season / haunting the hounds into the variation and killing them is a 20% chance for their respective gem. This can also be a pretty decent way of getting your Shadow Manip up early if you didn't get to digging up graves first or Clockwork Bishop kills. Which are first come first serve outside of the ruins.
  1. Earthquakes for comparison are a 5% chance for a red / blue / marble, require you to be sitting in the caves or inducing Earthquakes with Slurtle Slime. Not everyone will be doing that.
  2. Tumbleweeds have a gigantic loot table, 0.04% chance for Blue Gems, 0.02% chance for Red Gems. You'll be at it for awhile lol.
  • Sewing Kit for the Belt of Hunger early on for Wigfrid / Wolfgang / etc can be pretty handy depending on the player.
     
  • Varg Farms are arguably better, but you have a 5% chance day one up to a 33% chance day 100 to spawn one from Suspicious Dirt and you need to trap it for personal use. They also get killed off accidentally by Frog Rain with only 1,800 HP by the less cautious players lol. The Hound Mounds in the D-FLY desert are always there.

^ This! Thanks, @Cheetos for providing the exact data/numbers.

 

Still, as previously stated: hound mounds take main role of providing above resources if one camps really close to them and/or makes frequent trips in DF's desert (or maybe going for a specific speedrun). But on public servers, random dedicated survival ones (on which I play), with average lifespan of 2 seasons (first autumn and winter), the vast majority of time dog mounds are just a death trap/hp crippling 'devices' for most beginner/casual players venturing there. For me hound mounds are just nuisances if too close to my frequented path or in the way of mining - thus destroying them on spot takes the cake of that day. Plus, again: in all my hundreds of hours on survival official/most used pubs, the number of people constantly farming said mounds was ..3-or-so (from my knowledge obviously).

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34 minutes ago, Destros09 said:

Most people don't kill dst dragonfly in 12 minutes, I've only soloed it twice and killed it only 11 times overall, and it takes 20 days to get it to respawn to give, 3-5 of each colored gem

Most people aren't farming hound mounds at 12 minutes either, and hounds only give red and blue gems.

 

In a practical sense, early gems are from digging graves, earthquakes and stalagmites.  Hound mounds don't have a strong advantage over those early and lategame things like a varg pen do the same thing.

 

One purple gem is most useful for shadow manip, most other magical items are either not that useful or made at an ancient pseudoscience station.

 

I don't like extincting resources either, but I can't find a mechanical reason to keep hound mounds.  You don't need mass teeth and there are faster ways with caves to get gems, most valuable of which aren't even from hounds.

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If you spend most of your time in the caves and missed out on teeth from early hound waves, then hound mounds will help you stock up. If you spend most of your time above ground, then hound mounds can help supplement your supply of red and blue gems. I don't see why someone would argue that the Dragonfly is an alternative, give that you'll only get two red/blue gems and you can only fight it every twenty days. Running through hound mounds isn't as hard as some people make it sound, I've only ever had issues when I've tried to bring followers past. If you want to clear out the boulders then find a tanky mob to distract the hounds while you mine. I'd actively encourage anyone who hasn't tried camping nearby to give it a go, as they're part of what makes the dessert one of the best places to build a base. Try setting up some bunny hutches and a flingo nearby if you want a tooth/gem auto farm. Don't want the excess teeth? Give them to a lureplant or try playing Wicker and investing in blow darts.

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15 minutes ago, Toros said:

In a practical sense, early gems are from digging graves, earthquakes and stalagmites.  Hound mounds don't have a strong advantage over those early and lategame things like a varg pen do the same thing.

 

One purple gem is most useful for shadow manip, most other magical items are either not that useful or made at an ancient pseudoscience station.

The chance of getting a particular gem from a stalagmite is at best 5%, so I'd say that's not really the most method. I'm not saying hound mounds are necessarily better in this role, just that stalagmites aren't strictly the best option either. The one advantage that hound mounds do have over a Varg pen is that they don't require the same level of effort to set up. They just exist.

 

Red gems are always invaluable as they allow you to stock up on life giving amulets (for yourself and the other people on the server). Again, if this was a solo world it would entirely depend on you as a player. Chilled amulets are portable endothermic fires, while ice staffs have their own niche uses. If you're playing as WX, then red and purple gems are some of the most valuable resources in the game.

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7 minutes ago, Tosh said:

The chance of getting a particular gem from a stalagmite is at best 5%, so I'd say that's not really the most method. I'm not saying hound mounds are necessarily better in this role, just that stalagmites aren't strictly the best option either. The one advantage that hound mounds do have over a Varg pen is that they don't require the same level of effort to set up. They just exist.

 

Red gems are always invaluable as they allow you to stock up on life giving amulets (for yourself and the other people on the server). Again, if this was a solo world it would entirely depend on you as a player. Chilled amulets are portable endothermic fires, while ice staffs have their own niche uses. If you're playing as WX, then red and purple gems are some of the most valuable resources in the game.

If you're playing as Wx the best option is a ruins rush anyway, nothing else comes close.

 

The issue I have with red and blue amulets are how easy and cheap the alternatives are.  Berry bushes for rot, spider/bunny farms, limited uses for stingers make it very easy to never need an amulet unless playing solo because you have plentiful amounts of booster shot supplies on hand.  Meat effigies also fall into a strange area of "when do you /really/ need this?"

 

Hambat can carry you a long way and doesn't require gems at all, and the best gem items are either rare and ruins-only or ruins-only and renewable (magilum).

 

Wx benefits from overcharge obviously but if he'a your guy I'd look into a mosling pit for farming strikes, it's a pretty cool strat.

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Regarding mound hounds and walls - tested this and yes, they do attack them. Darn. On the plus side, I did get some help in keeping them occupied without bothering me: :) 

20170503182847_1.jpg

Now that I think about it, I can move a up to 5 beefalo with the lazy deserter, I wonder if they'd start a new herd in the small desert-enclosed savanna.

I like the idea of dangerous decor - anyone know how to keep them inside? Endtables + walls, or maybe densely planted marble bushes + walls?

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