Mananu

*Suggestion* Making Wilson useful

29 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

At this moment, there is no cure for disease. We know that Wilson likes science but he doesn't have a perk which defines him. Can he craft some sort of potions or anything that can cure the disease ? Some may think this is a Wickerbottom job, but it's more in scientific way and we only have Wilson who should be in this domain. I don't think this should affect his ''balanced'' status so much since he doesn't have any downside or upside. Just some potions or anything against the disease could make him useful, a scientist could make more than just grow a beard. That's just my opinion.

Edited by Mananu
deleted a letter
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No, Wilson should be left alone, he is meant to be as simple as possible 

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34 minutes ago, Destros09 said:

No, Wilson should be left alone, he is meant to be as bland, boring, and uninteresting to play as possible 

 

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What we need is more uses for the beard hair... but yeah <_< shadow splumokeys and Abigail... O__O

So... Wilson, buff? <_<

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22 hours ago, Asparagus said:

What we need is more uses for the beard hair... but yeah <_< shadow splumokeys and Abigail... O__O

So... Wilson, buff? <_<

6 Beard Hair can be used to craft a Fake Beard. Head slot, does nothing. Too op?

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Wilson is amazing.. His bread helps a lot on winter, have a full beard + a winter cap and that's all, you settled! Not only that but he can literaly create extra lives! If you're playing on survival mode that's an ability you can't neglect!

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8 hours ago, MiiKy said:

Wilson is amazing.. His bread helps a lot on winter, have a full beard + a winter cap and that's all, you settled! Not only that but he can literaly create extra lives! If you're playing on survival mode that's an ability you can't neglect!

But there are better ways of getting beard hair, like Bunnyman Farming (When insane). The beard stops being useful after a while and even though you can make Meat Effigies with beard hair, most people I know don't want to bother with the health penalty that comes with using one. Come late game, the only thing players use at that point are Life Giving Amulets. I suggest giving Wilson another perk, so that way he can better help the team out when late game rolls around. Besides, a beard is only useful after the first or second Winter. After that, you grow one out of boredom, not necessity.

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Wilson is fine but once you learn how to survive winter and some self presevation he is garbage. His perks fall out almost immediately as you get better at there game. Plus there are characters that can do what little he does better and they downsides are completely manageble
Wilson= Wooden sword

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Honestly, Wilson is fine as is. Not everyone needs something unique to contribute to the team. You can contribute by literally doing any productive activity. Heck, even Wes is capable of contributing to the team. I find Wilson to be a good character to use if you want a "pure" DS/T experience without character traits getting in the way too much. Being average isn't a bad thing.

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12 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Honestly, Wilson is fine as is. Not everyone needs something unique to contribute to the team. You can contribute by literally doing any productive activity. Heck, even Wes is capable of contributing to the team. I find Wilson to be a good character to use if you want a "pure" DS/T experience without character traits getting in the way too much. Being average isn't a bad thing.

Wilson can still be average but he needs something that gives you a reason to play him.
At this point I say WX-78 would be average if you didn't use any of his things and thats all wilson really is he's blank
He doesn't need a big change he just needs something that can make you go pick me

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3 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Now that Clay basically removed Willow's only downside, he can be considered the worst character in the game.

Willow is still more vulnerable to freezing then other characters though. Plus she has less maximum sanity then Wilson. Her play-style revolves around sitting by fire and sanity management. Wilson doesn't have this.

9 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

I have explained before why a character with no downside still have effective downsides because of the mere existence of other characters.

Except that other characters have cons to balance their pros. Wilson's con is still a pro. When you don't need the insulation the beard gives, you can shave it for sanity gain and beard hair. But this has little impact overall on how you play the game with this character. You don't have to worry about being attacked by pigs for no reason. You don't need to carefully manage your hunger. You don't need to worry about being unable to eat vegetables. You don't need worry about taking damage in the rain or hunting down gears. You get the idea.

Again, Wilson is the "pure" DS/T experience because his traits don't alter how you play the game much.

18 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Think of choosing characters like choosing a chest slot item. If Wolfgang was an armour, and WX-78 was a magi, then Wilson would be a backpack with 0 slots.

Seems like an unfair comparison. If anything Wolfgang would be like bone armor. You'll need maintenance to keep it going. WX-78 is going to require resource investment for that magi. And Wilson would be a log suit. Good in just about any situation, but not the best in specific ones.

Wilson is a jack of all trades, but master of none (except winter survivability I suppose).

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Posted (edited)

In the original trailer, Wilson was generally a pretty bad scientist, but he successfully did some things with animals and potions. And the mixture of science/magic is a thing here.

 

Science! tab. A bunch of minor things to manipulate the DS world. Things that can already be done/obtained, but he can do better.
  Incubator for eggs/Tallbird eggs, make them grow faster, don't have to manually manage temperature.
  Extractor; turn a Rabbit into a starving Rabbit and Carrots, Moleworms give Rocks/rock byproducts, Butterflies give Petals, ect (would require giving said animals a larger hunger capacity to balance, ie they give back less items than you would give them to refill their hunger).
  Potions of various sorts.
    Disease cure (you'd still have to watch your plants for spread and you'd need to make a LOT of these).
    Corrupting potion; Pigs into Werepigs, Grass Geckos into Eyeplants/chance for Lureplant, Flowers into Dark Flowers, ect.
    More potions/chemicals??? I really like the image of Wilson smiling menacingly while dripping a single drop of some sinister-looking liquid onto stuff.

 

Ect. (Mad) Scientist things.

Edited by Pyr0mrcow
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46 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Willow is still more vulnerable to freezing then other characters though. Plus she has less maximum sanity then Wilson. Her play-style revolves around sitting by fire and sanity management. Wilson doesn't have this.

Having lower maximum sanity isn't a downside. Also, it's not very wise to rely on fire for sanity as Willow. Fire only regenerates 11 sanity per minute. You can get 10 sanity by eating two crock pot foods, and 15 sanity by eating taffies, cacti, or greencaps.

Sanity is not hard to manage.

46 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Except that other characters have cons to balance their pros. Wilson's con is still a pro. When you don't need the insulation the beard gives, you can shave it for sanity gain and beard hair. But this has little impact overall on how you play the game with this character. You don't have to worry about being attacked by pigs for no reason. You don't need to carefully manage your hunger. You don't need to worry about being unable to eat vegetables. You don't need worry about taking damage in the rain or hunting down gears. You get the idea.

You are forgetting that other characters have also upsides that exist. Let me quote my previous posts from another thread:

Spoiler
Quote

He's not a jack-of-all-trades. All he can do that other character's can't is grow a beard, which can easily be substituted by clothing and mobs that drop hair. His options are limited when compared to the rest of the characters. That is literally the exact opposite of a jack-of-all-trades.

Quote

What I gather from this mess of a paragraph is that you still have no idea what "jack-of-all-trades" even means. A jack-of-all-trades is someone that can do almost everything very well, but does not excel at them. Again, let's see what Wilson can do that other characters can't:

  1. Grow a beard.
  2. ...

Wow, certainly a jack-of-all-trades, he can grow a beard. That's surely worth not being able to read books, have 2x damage, run faster, gather loads of logs quickly, or upgrade your stats

Quote

And before I have to repeat it again, Wilson's massive downside is his lack of upsides. His trade-offs are the other character's perks. He can't be a jack-of-all-trades if he can't do any single one of them. Most of the other characters have better perks than his beard, and they barely even have downsides. If all the characters get their downsides removed, it wouldn't actually matter that much, the game would still be mostly the same.

Quote

True, that was my point. A jack-of-all-trades would be someone that can do a lot more than most other people. Wickerbottom fits the description of a jack-of-all-trades waaayyy better than Wilson does. Wilson, at first, may appear to have no downsides, but if you think you would realise that if all other characters have upsides better than Wilson's, then Wilson lacking those upsides is his true downside.

The same applies for all other characters, Wolfgang has the downside of not having Wickerbottom's books and Woodie's axe, but it is offset by his own upsides of damage and speed. WX-78 has the downside of not having Willow's fire resistance and Wendy's Abigail, but those downsides are again offset by his own upsides. Wilson isn't an exception to this, and he has no good upsides to offset those downsides.

 

 

46 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Again, Wilson is the "pure" DS/T experience because his traits don't alter how you play the game much.

Assuming that the rest of the characters and their perks don't exist.

46 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Seems like an unfair comparison. If anything Wolfgang would be like bone armor. You'll need maintenance to keep it going. WX-78 is going to require resource investment for that magi. And Wilson would be a log suit. Good in just about any situation, but not the best in specific ones.

Wilson is a jack of all trades, but master of none (except winter survivability I suppose).

No, Wilson is a backpack with 0 slots. Wilson is a jack of no trades and master of none. You maintain nothing and get rewarded with nothing as Wilson. The character has no depth, is very bland, is incredibly boring, and is uninteresting to play as because he offers nothing when compared to the rest. People who 'main' Wilson are missing out on the well better perks of other characters. You could say that other characters have downsides, but their downsides are very manageable and their upsides far outweigh their downsides.

Wilson is currently, in my opinion, the most underpowered DST character. He only becomes balanced if you delete all characters but him from the game. Thinking that Wilson is anywhere near balanced is a clear sign that you only directly look at stats when determining the balance of characters, and not factoring in the rest of the game and its characters. Remember that you can only play as one character at a time.

Also, everyone should stop throwing around the term 'jack-of-all-trades' in this game. There's no proper jack-of-all-trades character in DST because not a single character can do everything that all characters combined can. Wickerbottom may be described a jack-of-all-trades, however she can't do everything, it's just that Wickerbottom can do loads more things than other characters can't do.

Note that I put a large emphasis on comparison when it comes to balance. You can't balance something if you have nothing to compare it to. It just so happens that when you compare all the characters to each other, Wilson turns out to be one of the worst. Sure, if you remove all characters in the game except for Wilson, then I would say that Wilson is definitely balanced and is the jack-of-all-trades. But that's not currently the case.

And come on, some people just want Wilson to become interesting and proper things to offer. Stop claiming that the status quo is perfect just for the sake of keeping the status quo.

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@JohnWatson

I had a whole post picking apart everything you said, but let's be realistic here. I doubt Klei will change Wilson. I mean, how many years has it been since Klei made any balance changes specific to Wilson?

We can argue about this all we want, but I doubt it'll ever have any impact whatsoever. Let's just agree to disagree and move on. I'm growing tired of all this arguing lately...

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Just now, Sinister_Fang said:

@JohnWatson

I had a whole post picking apart everything you said, but let's be realistic here. I doubt Klei will change Wilson. I mean, how many years has it been since Klei made any balance changes specific to Wilson?

We can argue about this all we want, but I doubt it'll ever have any impact whatsoever. Let's just agree to disagree and move on. I'm growing tired of all this arguing lately...

I was mainly arguing that picking Wilson has the opportunity cost of the other characters' upsides. While I do doubt that Wilson will get changed any time soon, it would be better if he gets buffed by the devs. The point of having a Suggestions & Feedback subforum is for discussion anyway. And yes, I do believe that the Klei most likely does not or barely read this subforum.

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Posted (edited)

On 4/30/2017 at 9:49 PM, JohnWatson said:

Wilson isn't average though, and Wes is top-tier. Now that Clay basically removed Willow's only downside, he can be considered the worst character in the game. I have explained before why a character with no downside still have effective downsides because of the mere existence of other characters. Think of choosing characters like choosing a chest slot item. If Wolfgang was an armour, and WX-78 was a magi, then Wilson would be a backpack with 0 slots.

If Wilson is now below Willow, where does this put Wendy (who according this highly reliable ranking system must remain below Wilson)??? 

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Edited by Ressayez
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31 minutes ago, Ressayez said:

If Wilson is now below Willow, where does this put Wendy (who according this highly reliable ranking system must remain below Wilson)??? 

dbx0IIQ1.pngScreenshot (592).pngScreenshot (592).pngScreenshot (592).png

Wendy is a beast in the right hands. 

 

If Wilson gets changed in any way, I think it would only need to be something simple. Maybe remove (or reduce) the meat effigy revival penalty for Wilson. Everyone else can keep it though. If he needs a more 'Together' focused perk, maybe give him the ability to duplicate normal blueprints at the cartographer's desk.

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3 hours ago, Tosh said:

Wendy is a beast in the right hands. 

 

If Wilson gets changed in any way, I think it would only need to be something simple. Maybe remove (or reduce) the meat effigy revival penalty for Wilson. Everyone else can keep it though. If he needs a more 'Together' focused perk, maybe give him the ability to duplicate normal blueprints at the cartographer's desk.

That would be nice though maybe a little reduntant because I don't see how that would be useful or you using the perk in advance

I was thinking give him more sanity from protyping or make his sanity drain lower Kind of like Walnini but stronger considering he likes or prides himself on being logical. I think the sanity drain idea would work give you more freedom to use dark swords and provide a cushion for new players.

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@Ressayez Isn't that from Edgy Rick's video about Fast Facts?

Anyway, I'd actually rank the characters more like this (for non-pvp co-op or solo):

1. Wes

2. Wickerbottom

3. WX-78

4. Wolfgang

5. Waxwell

6. Wigfrid

7. Wendy

8. Webber

9. Willow

10. Woodie

11. Wilson

If you're talking about PvP, then Willow is higher, Wendy is lower, and WX-78 is top.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, JohnWatson said:

6. Wigfrid

7. Wendy

I don't play Wendy or Wigfrid a lot like I use to but wouldn't Wendy be higher than Wigfrid? Wendy has no downsides, tons of upsides and can make a somewhat okay sanity restoring station with abby flowers?

Edited by GiddyGuy
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In the right hands you can make Abigail kite and hunt down Wigfrids O__O

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I died... I was lagging bad ok >_>?

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3 hours ago, Asparagus said:

I was lagging bad ok >_>?

He's not lying.

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8 hours ago, Donke60 said:

That would be nice though maybe a little reduntant because I don't see how that would be useful or you using the perk in advance

I was thinking give him more sanity from protyping or make his sanity drain lower Kind of like Walnini but stronger considering he likes or prides himself on being logical. I think the sanity drain idea would work give you more freedom to use dark swords and provide a cushion for new players.

I actually use this guy regularly, and though I like him as is, I'd prefer the sanity drain not be tweaked... 

8 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

@Ressayez Isn't that from Edgy Rick's video about Fast Facts?

Anyway, I'd actually rank the characters more like this (for non-pvp co-op or solo):

I'm not really all that sure which video it's from, I wouldn't consider myself a fan in the slightest, twas sent by a friend.

Oh, you goof! I didn't mean for you to give me a serious list, haha!

(I thought the ridiculous amount of emojis would've clued you in...)

It's good to see SOMEONE acknowledging Wes for the powerhouse he is, though.

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