TheKingofSquirrels

So Woodie still sucks right?

95 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

There's still a chance he could be fixed, I mean, a more recent update made "Willow less prone to insanity chills" so there is still a chance Woodie could be somewhat fixed.

Edited by cactusarms
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Thanks for introducing me to that series.

As for the power of the Werebeaver, I agree it's not as good as singleplayer.  Mainly, the sanity drain during transformations will likely turn some off, even if one heeds Lucy's warnings when chopping trees, as you still transform during full moons.  If you're going for the sanity drain, it's a good idea, but it shouldn't be as severe as it already is.  You'll need that sanity drain to punish the players that chop down too much trees, as that's one of Woodie's downsides, but lessen it some for the players who have to be stuck with Werebeaver for the full moon, or even just decrease the rate of sanity loss for Werebeaver form during such a time while leaving the sanity decrease the same for any other condition.  Then again, I'm not an expert at balancing, so take my opinion with a grain of salt if you wish.

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1 minute ago, PlatinumUmbreon said:

Thanks for introducing me to that series.

As for the power of the Werebeaver, I agree it's not as good as singleplayer.  Mainly, the sanity drain during transformations will likely turn some off, even if one heeds Lucy's warnings when chopping trees, as you still transform during full moons.  If you're going for the sanity drain, it's a good idea, but it shouldn't be as severe as it already is.  You'll need that sanity drain to punish the players that chop down too much trees, as that's one of Woodie's downsides, but lessen it some for the players who have to be stuck with Werebeaver for the full moon, or even just decrease the rate of sanity loss for Werebeaver form during such a time while leaving the sanity decrease the same for any other condition.  Then again, I'm not an expert at balancing, so take my opinion with a grain of salt if you wish.

You can't really be taken "by surprise" on a full moon. You know it will always be day 11, 33, 55, 77 , 99 and at that point you probably should build yourself the moon dial! What most people don't realize is that you can eat logs on the ground while you are on Beaver form , and you are going to get 10 points back each time you consume one of those. Say that full moon is about to start: Place 1-10 logs (depending on how full your meter is) on the ground and eat them as soon as you transform : DONE! You have successfully get ridden of the Curse without chopping down a forest :wilson_hurt:

And about the sanity.. i would be "okay" with it if the beaver form had some "upgrade powah" like Wolfgang does. I'm one of those players who hates sanity loss btw , this is why i only play Webber, Maxwell and Wendy

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Ah right, forgot the Moon runs on the typical phases as seen in real life, though I suppose it still surprise those who don't pay attention.  Though I've rarely played Woodie, DST or singleplayer, and I have the common sense to not set up base near pig villages, so I've only paid attention to the current day to measure how close it is to the next season.  And I do agree sanity loss is highly frustrating.

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OH MY GOD, that is _exactly_ the video I was going to mention once I read the part about "werewolvesbeavers should be strong"!  (Although technically it's in Part 5 that he actually takes on the tallbird and dies.)  I'm with him, I would've expected to be a bit tougher than that too!

Also tone down the sanity drain and take away the needing to eat logs as a human.  Seriously.  Maybe not a MAJOR change on the sanity thing, but even a bit would help.

...Notorious

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I've played Woodie more than any other character in DST, and I don't really see why the community thinks he is so weak. He has byfar the best sanity management, even better than Maxwell, IMO. The sanity loss from beavering never even reaches dangerous levels if you manage your time well.

What I do is: start at full sanity (easy with how much he gets from saplings), go beaver, chop down a forest, and then replant. The pinecones grant you way more than enough sanity to max out (3 pinecones = 1 cooked green cap). You can even do this many times in succession. The game doesn't really encourage you to avoid beaver form, but you are definitely expected to manage your transformations carefully to avoid insanity.

Of course, he saves a lot of time getting wood. Even Maxwell with full harvesters can hardly keep up with his beaver form. Maybe it's because my teammates don't like to gather materials, but it is so handy to just go ham on a forest and fill of several chests of wood. I've also heard that gnawing boulders raises Beaverness, too, so I guess you could use him for fast mining, but I have never tried that.

The beaver is really bad at fighting, but it really is not hard to go back to normal before going insane, even without eating a single log. The only issue for sanity is full moons, but you can maintain your humanity by chowing down on a stack or two of wood. You can also just wait out the night as a beaver, but you'll probably run into some issues with Terrorbeaks tearing apart your soft beaver body.

The first Deerclops occurring so close to a full moon is a problem that you have to plan ahead for; Deerclops' sanity drain and aggression coupled with freezing damage makes for a bad time. If you're still dealing with Deerclops during the full moon, you better have a stack of wood ready to eat.

I don't really notice his insulation bonus or pig befriending expertise.

That's everything I have to say about Woodie off the top of my head.

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37 minutes ago, amethystMushroom said:

I've played Woodie more than any other character in DST, and I don't really see why the community thinks he is so weak. He has byfar the best sanity management, even better than Maxwell, IMO. The sanity loss from beavering never even reaches dangerous levels if you manage your time well.

What I do is: start at full sanity (easy with how much he gets from saplings), go beaver, chop down a forest, and then replant. The pinecones grant you way more than enough sanity to max out (3 pinecones = 1 cooked green cap). You can even do this many times in succession. The game doesn't really encourage you to avoid beaver form, but you are definitely expected to manage your transformations carefully to avoid insanity.

Of course, he saves a lot of time getting wood. Even Maxwell with full harvesters can hardly keep up with his beaver form. Maybe it's because my teammates don't like to gather materials, but it is so handy to just go ham on a forest and fill of several chests of wood. I've also heard that gnawing boulders raises Beaverness, too, so I guess you could use him for fast mining, but I have never tried that.

The beaver is really bad at fighting, but it really is not hard to go back to normal before going insane, even without eating a single log. The only issue for sanity is full moons, but you can maintain your humanity by chowing down on a stack or two of wood. You can also just wait out the night as a beaver, but you'll probably run into some issues with Terrorbeaks tearing apart your soft beaver body.

The first Deerclops occurring so close to a full moon is a problem that you have to plan ahead for; Deerclops' sanity drain and aggression coupled with freezing damage makes for a bad time. If you're still dealing with Deerclops during the full moon, you better have a stack of wood ready to eat.

I don't really notice his insulation bonus or pig befriending expertise.

That's everything I have to say about Woodie off the top of my head.

Woodie in dst /does/ have good sanity management... but neither his sanity management nor his harvesting is particularly good.

 

Maxwell's sanity management long term is easier, and grabbing cactus flesh/taffy/greencaps to restore after a boss is easier for everyone.

 

Maxwell's harvesting is much faster.  With 3 shadow loggers he has a faster peak harvesting rate and can sustain it indefinitely whereas woodie would need to plant pinecones to recover sanity lost from werebeaver or eat some of the wood, and if max adds a digger to get the stumps he pulls even further ahead.

 

Woodie is fun but weak currently.

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Woodie is one of my favs in dst! In ds he is crap tho... :p

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Posted (edited)

I also am a Woodie main and find the sanity plus beaver meter really easy to manage - even permanently-basing-in-ruins easy. Plus the lore behind it - werebeaver = huge sanity drain - is consistent with were-something supposed behavior (aka totally insane). My only issue with him is how weak the werebeaver form actually is compared to what one would expect from a were-thing (at least as pop culture goes): no significant heap in damage done / tanking received dmg, no consistent resistance to cold and so on - and those I would like to be addressed via some buffing.

Oh, and regarding the video pointed for exemplification: it seemed those people didn't knew very well (or care?!) how to play the game or playing as a team - the Woodie guy didn't ate wood at all when in beaver form, nor planted any cones (or at least I haven't seen him doing so), his mates did not help when witnessing him being chased by shadows, he in human form didn't fight the shadows as well etc. Not the best example to support your points regarding Woodie's cons I would say.

 

PS: another thing that seems to always be forgotten about Woodie and the full moon - if not prepared to handle it, just go into caves; that's a good way to bypass the obligatory surface 'beaveresque' time (yes, in caves there are no moon cycle effects whatsoever on your favorite furry-cursed character).

Edited by xxVERSUSxy
*le PS
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Well, the whole point of Woodie's rebalance was to change him for multiplayer. Considering that you have a group of 3-4 people, Woodie is pretty good. I mean, in the singleplayer, he was a death machine with gathering abilities. He needed to be powerful since you do everything by yourself. In DST (as KE thinks), you have other people to fight. Woodie was reworked for teamplay. Gathering logs, living logs, nightmare fuel, birchnuts etc. And he is good at that. Don't underrate him. 

Maybe it's just my Woodie-mainness talking for me, but I hope I am reasonable enough.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, those guys (in the video) are...not very good.  I've watched the series since the beginning of Season 1 and only Jas seems to have any idea what she's doing--although you can't really tell it in _that_ chapter.  They're gradually improving, but this is very much a "Toss total strangers in the deep end and see what happens!  WHEEE!" type of deal.

I myself actually didn't _know_ that when you ran out of...log? in beaver form, you started STARVING TO DEATH!  Wow.  Doesn't that just make you _turn back_ in regular Don't Starve?  (And with health, hunger and sanity all at half, almost as if you'd...died...and been brought back to life by a touchstone.  SYMBOLISM?)  If this'd been me I would've messed that up out of confusion.  Although, I do know someone who mains Woodie and I've seen him down entire stacks of logs _to turn back_ so I probably would've figured out that FILLING the log meter does so in this version.  But, man...

I dunno. In singleplayer I also still had trouble playing him 'cos I would wake up MILES away from wherever I dropped all my stuff, weak and probably near nightfall.  I wouldn't say he's overpowered that way for multiplayer.  You could still quite easily die because of the reason you can ALWAYS die chain deaths--not having any of your stuff and being weak at the wrong time!  I'd try to time out my changing back to when I refound my stuff, but _you can't access the map in beaver form_ and my sense of direction ain't that good.  Heck, it isn't good at all.  So anyway, my point is that even in that version he's not OP.

...also, as we've made abundantly clear on the "Play Styles" thread..._multiplayer isn't always multiplayer_.  Shoutout to all my DST homies who have to survive, make, and hold down a base all by yourselves.  High five!

I don't think Woodie _sucks_ in multiplayer, just...they've made him such that he's no longer fun for me to play.  And when you're alone, the singleplayer version wouldn't be overpowered 'cos, well, you're ALONE.  In a world where all the bosses have Together HP values (without mods, anyway).  Yeah.

...Notorious

Edited by CaptainChaotica
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Some of his numbers could use retuning, like:

  • lower rate of sanity drain
  • fewer gnaws to harvest from certain objects (e.g. stumps, boulders)
  • lower log meter recovery on gnaw

These aspects may be delicate though.

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Forgot to mention that the sanity drain in Beaver mode is actually pretty nice since you can become insane on-demand and get sane again easily. It can be annoying for longer periods of time, though, for example a full moon during winter. Eliminating the sanity drain would actually be a nerf.

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26 minutes ago, FloomRide said:

insane on-demand... Eliminating the sanity drain would actually be a nerf.

Is a bunch of grown trees more accessible than a Worm Hole or raw Green Caps?

The sustained decrease could be useful except for the beaver damage part.

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I feel like this issue got left behind and it's still really frustrating. I mean, we all agree he still sucks right? Or is there's still debate about this?

Things that need fixing:

- Get rid of the sanity drain during Werebeaver form. Just have a sanity penalty when you transform back, like singleplayer. You know how some people complain about how sanity is annoying because of the persistent sound effects and decolouring effects, well...imagine that but ten times worse because its in sepia and there's a god damn banjo playing. And there's no way around it, unless you transform right back into human form, you are going to insane no matter what you do because the sanity drain is so OP. It's just a horrible experience all around and it's why I never touch this character. 

- The fact that he is vulnerable doesn't make sense at all. He has no armour and does less damage than a basic spear. WHY? He is a werewolf beaver, shouldn't other characters fear him? At least make him strong during full moon, or something. Right, now he is pathetic.

Also, we need another character that's strong to fight people like Wolfgang and Wicker.

- Get rid of the log meter and eating logs in human form. It's so dumb. 

I feel like the DST updates to Woodie encourage the player to never want to transform and when he does, transform back as quickly as possible....and that's so crap.  

If you want evidence, here's a great video of someone experiencing the Woodie frustration (5:50) and (11:50)

 

Why remove the sanity drain while in Beaver form ? Maybe when I am Beaver I want to cut some trees/mine some rocks and also kill some nightmare shadows. Sanity is not a problem for him and is not even for any character in this game as long as we have resources to regain it. He is vulnerable because he is not a fighting character. Doesn't matter if he transforms, the Beaver mode is not meant to be Hulk mode. Why would we want more fighting characters tho ? Some players may not want or like fighting and they can choose between a wide variety of characters. Why get rid of the log meter ? He cuts trees, he eats logs, he is a Beaver. That log meter is the most important part for him. That makes him unique from others. People don't like his Beaver form because they are afraid to try new things. Most of them are scared because of the losing sanity ''issue'' which like I said, it's not an ''issues'' at all as long as you take some time and learn how to play him or you can use the ''gain sanity'' resources like green mushrooms or in his case pinecones. Overall I like the way he is. He is unique and fun for me.

Edited by Mananu
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Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, amethystMushroom said:

I've played Woodie more than any other character in DST, and I don't really see why the community thinks he is so weak. He has byfar the best sanity management, even better than Maxwell, IMO. The sanity loss from beavering never even reaches dangerous levels if you manage your time well.

What I do is: start at full sanity (easy with how much he gets from saplings), go beaver, chop down a forest, and then replant. The pinecones grant you way more than enough sanity to max out (3 pinecones = 1 cooked green cap). You can even do this many times in succession. The game doesn't really encourage you to avoid beaver form, but you are definitely expected to manage your transformations carefully to avoid insanity.

Of course, he saves a lot of time getting wood. Even Maxwell with full harvesters can hardly keep up with his beaver form. Maybe it's because my teammates don't like to gather materials, but it is so handy to just go ham on a forest and fill of several chests of wood. I've also heard that gnawing boulders raises Beaverness, too, so I guess you could use him for fast mining, but I have never tried that.

The beaver is really bad at fighting, but it really is not hard to go back to normal before going insane, even without eating a single log. The only issue for sanity is full moons, but you can maintain your humanity by chowing down on a stack or two of wood. You can also just wait out the night as a beaver, but you'll probably run into some issues with Terrorbeaks tearing apart your soft beaver body.

The first Deerclops occurring so close to a full moon is a problem that you have to plan ahead for; Deerclops' sanity drain and aggression coupled with freezing damage makes for a bad time. If you're still dealing with Deerclops during the full moon, you better have a stack of wood ready to eat.

I don't really notice his insulation bonus or pig befriending expertise.

That's everything I have to say about Woodie off the top of my head.

I understand your arguments, but i don't agree with the idea that he is a good character right now. Besides, his chopping skills are pretty good early game and pretty useful for the Toadstool fight, but after a while the log production can be automated with the Reanimated Skeleton in a far more effective way. So that's bye bye for the best tree chopping character in the game!

If you wanna play him right, you need to be grinding all the time and that takes a lot of fun of the experience.

If you compare it, the beaver form in DS is your explore mode, you can get so much done and it is just so much fun to wonder around fighting with a decent attack power, beign immune to overheating and the cold! It's simply a blast!

I have only played this character twice in DST and I was bored to death every time, all the planting trees... all the grinding... all the insanity penalties and the lack of a decent attack in beaver form are a fun killer to me.

His beaver form in DST makes it so much of a pain, you are so weak and get so crazy soo easily. You can of course change back and plant a bunch of tree seeds and eat a bunch of logs, but what is the point of being Werebeaver anyway if this is not even a little fun? 

I like challenges, but Woodie is just annoyingly boring to play right now in DST. To me, he is just like any other character, but with an annoying mode! 

Edited by FreyaMaluk

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I agree on Woodies weakness. A few players, whose main character is Woodie may disagree on it, but that is why they disagree on it. If you play on one character too much, you get to used with him/her and will learns more tips about it. However, I still think woodie is very weak  and a little boring.

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2 hours ago, Mananu said:

Why remove the sanity drain while in Beaver form ? Maybe when I am Beaver I want to cut some trees/mine some rocks and also kill some nightmare shadows. 

This is the problem: You deal less damage than a normal spear. It's SO damn boring to strike a shadow 15 times before it goes down! This is not what i expect from a "nightmare fuel farmer".

Maxwell does that on demand too: Spawn a "Shadow duelist" , watch your sanity costantly being low, once you get bored just break the puppet and you are back to "full" sanity. The Beaver is not a nightmare fuel farmer, it can be used like that, but maxwell outdoes the role to well.

Chopping wood is something that maxwell does better too! Woodie needs a bit of love, but Willow is my priority right now ..

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