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Let's talk about Night Lights


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The Night Light, already one of those craft-able magic tab things that garnered some heavily mixed feelings amongst all the players since its introduction back in Reign of Giants for singleplayer Don't Starve, no doubt is even more forgotten now with all the new high tier lights now available in ANR in the form of mushlights and such. If it wasn't already regarded as pretty useless by some people before, it certainly has more leaning toward that sentiment now.

Indeed, it is hard to even figure out how to talk about this; some things that we would consider bugged about these structures are probably features, and the suggestion forum... has a tendency to be a bit less visited for feedback in general, and is mostly viewed for the newest content / ideas.

 

So what do we do about them?

Well one of the first things I would suggest to carve out a better existence for this would be first to stop treating like an actual fire and make it unaffected by ice, flingos, luxury fans, and anything else that extinguishes fires (did rain affect it too? I forget). It's a MAGIC light, it only makes sense that something which uses fuel that is also magical (i.e. not combustible), should be unaffected by these things. (The coding certainly exists now in ANR)

Second, and I think this would really cement its sunk cost and viability, is to also make it unaffected by shadow hands. Lorewise it would be debatable how they would actually treat this, but it would have so much more value to most players if they could just throw some nightmare fuel in, and forget about them while they work in the light provided don't you think?

An optional third change would be to allow things like Night Swords & Armor to be allowed to be used as fuel similar to how grass / log suits can be thrown in regular campfires. We've all seen those items just sitting around in a world with next to no durability left at some point, making this another use for those who don't bother to actually finish consuming it just seems like a "Why not?" thing to do.

 

Alternatively, and the following thought is a rework mind you - would be to treat this like a cross between a stationary lantern and the long lamented removed Maxwell Lights of adventure mode days. Fill it up with fuel and it will activate whenever someone walks near it, draining slowly not unlike an ice flingomatic, except turning off when nobody is near, or when someone deactivates it. This option would be spectacular for Lights Out mode to replace this missing staple which was very multiplayer friendly for admins / hosts who spawned these in to allow newly joined players to get a quick grip on their surroundings without adding mods like "Starting items". Heck it could even become a new craftable in itself and a rare blueprint dropped by the Fuelweaver if so desired.

AND AS A QUICK ADDENDUM before I (digress) conclude and hope for some further discussion, I would also encourage people to look at the suggestion forum for what I'm calling Charlie Lights found here: http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/78069-charlie-lights/

 

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I would love a change to night lights. Although one thing I'd like to see is having them be an actual, you know, night light. Nightmare fuel provides a long burn time, but that's largely wasted when it keeps going at day and dusk. So in addition to what you've already proposed, I'd like to add the ability for it to "pause" it's fuel consumption when it's not needed, and only produce light when it is needed.

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Well, with all the changes that have happened old content needs rework as well. That suggestion sounds good. Though I'd prefer those lights to spawn nightmares instead of hands going for its fire. Like if they were attracted by the fuel consumption. Perhaps some nice gambling can be added too - make it 50(or less)% chance for nightmares to spawn in their aggressive state just like when they come from fissures in caves and fill the rest of chances with them spawning in a passive state, checking for insane players nearby.

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12 minutes ago, Diaboliko said:

Well, with all the changes that have happened old content needs rework as well. That suggestion sounds good. Though I'd prefer those lights to spawn nightmares instead of hands going for its fire. Like if they were attracted by the fuel consumption. Perhaps some nice gambling can be added too - make it 50(or less)% chance for nightmares to spawn in their aggressive state just like when they come from fissures in caves and fill the rest of chances with them spawning in a passive state, checking for insane players nearby.

That would immediately erase its desirability if it became essentially a caves nightmare light. I included the "debatable lorewise" bit because one could argue that seeing the remains of a shadow creature being burned should theoretically scare off other shadows in this plane of existence (at least hands anyway, I don't want it to become a beacon of safety against shadow creatures).

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4 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

I've heard that it's insanity aura is not reversed by the Bee Queen crown. If that's true, simply changing that would probably make it popular. Players could use it as a sanity spa.

I'm not against that, but would they choose this over options like starcaller's stars and other things that give positive sanity auras?

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1 minute ago, Quyzbuk said:

I'm not against that, but would they choose that over options like starcaller's staff and other things that give positive sanity auras?

It really depends. They might want something that can make you insane as well as sane, and they might not want the heat or cold of the stars. They might prefer to save their staves for more important stuff like boss fights. 

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5 minutes ago, Cheetos said:

Could I ask why?

Of course! They count as fire source, she gains sanity from fire sources and nightmare fuel is abundant in the ruins.

Screenshot (444).png

59 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

I've heard that it's insanity aura is not reversed by the Bee Queen crown. If that's true, simply changing that would probably make it popular. Players could use it as a sanity spa.

I can confirm this to be false, it also makes for a poor sanity spa in stark contrast to using a row of 4x4 evil flowers, the range and insanity aura is quite small.

Screenshot (441).png

Screenshot (442).png

Screenshot (443).png

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2 hours ago, Ressayez said:

Of course! They count as fire source, she gains sanity from fire sources and nightmare fuel is abundant in the ruins.

That's what I was mostly curious about, it's a bit odd though, you need to be a certain distance from the Night Light (only in its assume "Fire" range but not in it's "Sanity Aura" range) to gain sanity off of Willow, otherwise if you're too close to the machine you need to use a Bee Queen Crown. It's also excruciatingly slow without doing 4 of them at the 3.5m fire distance (with geo). Neat idea though, much stronger than a Fire Pit.
 

2 hours ago, Ressayez said:

I can confirm this to be false, it also makes for a poor sanity spa in stark contrast to using a row of 4x4 evil flowers, the range and insanity aura is quite small.

This is correct, the reason why people think the Night Light doesn't work is because the aura converted into sanity via BQ Hat is so incredibly weak, that it cannot even negate the effects of Dusk / Night / Caves on normal characters. You can fix the Night Light very simply...

Aura Size(Pictured Below) and Sanity Drain is extremely poor for a magic Nightmare Fire, you can't even put Night Lights close enough to be effected by multiple Auras. You can only ever be effected by one Aura. It should be much bigger/stronger to compliment the Bee Queen Crown!

 


f1ef0fc092254448a783efc8ceb7b90e.png

Now in terms of a source of light the Night Light is still only "decent" here, the light coverage easily stretches a 9x9 area(Picture Below), the same as a Fire Pit, however gives off no heat. Wood becomes just as abundant with the Shadow Thurible in surface or caves as Nightmare Fuel later on.

 


84ed777848e04fc4a1db447d7dec28c9.png


While Glowcaps only barely cover a 5x5 area(Pictured Below), however they obviously have the HUGE bonus of giving off that area of light for the entire duration of the items inside. About 30 days for spores, about 20 days for both variations of Glow Berries, about 12 days for Lightbulbs respectively.

 


eff0e89525684afb8c5c68474ab1f485.png

How can you top that? Repeating again that It doesn't fill the niche of light that a campfire can't, it doesn't give heat, it doesn't last nearly as long as the Toadstools lights. It has no place other than aesthetics and a semi-expensive sanity station alternative for Willow. Buff the aura size and strength!

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2 hours ago, Cheetos said:

Aura Size and Sanity Drain is extremely poor for a magic Nightmare Fire, you can't even put Night Lights close enough to be effected by multiple Auras. You can only ever be effected by one Aura. It should be much bigger/stronger to compliment the Bee Queen Crown!

I hope that didn't mislead anyone into thinking you need multiple night lights, I was just reusing the same setup to show that even with multiple, the radius and strength is just too small to stack (with anyone who isn't Willow.)

2 hours ago, Cheetos said:

How can you top that? Repeating again that It doesn't fill the niche of light that a campfire can't, it doesn't give heat, it doesn't last nearly as long as the Toadstools lights. It has no place other than aesthetics and a semi-expensive sanity station alternative for Willow. Buff the aura size and strength!

I'd like to point out here that the glowcap and mushlight are both Toadstool drops, meaning they're your reward for slaying a beast with 50 000HP or Klaus, who is significantly easier, but still may take multiple attempts (meaning multiple winters) to get the intended drops.

Still, I agree. Buff the strength of the insanity aura and radius in which players can be affected.

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1 hour ago, Rellimarual said:

How long does one nightmare fuel power a night light?

It was about 173.3333 per 1 nightmare fuel from testing. When filling it to full it lasted approximately 520 seconds. So a fully fueled Night Light lasts a little over 1 game day (8 Minutes 39 Seconds). Yuck.

23 minutes ago, Ressayez said:

I hope that didn't mislead anyone into thinking you need multiple night lights

You're fine, I'm just tacking on :)

7 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

Btw, you can light a Night Light with a fire staff... just adding this in as it hasn't been mentioned yet... I think...

How? I can't seem to click it at all with a Fire Staff.

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9 minutes ago, Cheetos said:

How? I can't seem to click it at all with a Fire Staff.

Huh... I guess it was removed... haven't been doing it much recently to know when it was removed .-.

But the wiki entry still states that it can **shrugs**

http://dontstarve.wikia.com/wiki/Night_Light

Capture.PNG

Ech, single player wiki... the wiki needs to be updated for DST stuff too...

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44 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

Huh... I guess it was removed... haven't been doing it much recently to know when it was removed .-.

But the wiki entry still states that it can **shrugs**

The wiki is an evil place of outdated and incorrect information :D it fools us all.
(except for commands / prefab names).

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9 hours ago, Quyzbuk said:

The Night Light, already one of those craft-able magic tab things that garnered some heavily mixed feelings amongst all the players since its introduction back in Reign of Giants for singleplayer Don't Starve, no doubt is even more forgotten now with all the new high tier lights now available in ANR in the form of mushlights and such. If it wasn't already regarded as pretty useless by some people before, it certainly has more leaning toward that sentiment now.

Indeed, it is hard to even figure out how to talk about this; some things that we would consider bugged about these structures are probably features, and the suggestion forum... has a tendency to be a bit less visited for feedback in general, and is mostly viewed for the newest content / ideas.

 

So what do we do about them?

Well one of the first things I would suggest to carve out a better existence for this would be first to stop treating like an actual fire and make it unaffected by ice, flingos, luxury fans, and anything else that extinguishes fires (did rain affect it too? I forget). It's a MAGIC light, it only makes sense that something which uses fuel that is also magical (i.e. not combustible), should be unaffected by these things. (The coding certainly exists now in ANR)

Second, and I think this would really cement its sunk cost and viability, is to also make it unaffected by shadow hands. Lorewise it would be debatable how they would actually treat this, but it would have so much more value to most players if they could just throw some nightmare fuel in, and forget about them while they work in the light provided don't you think?

An optional third change would be to allow things like Night Swords & Armor to be allowed to be used as fuel similar to how grass / log suits can be thrown in regular campfires. We've all seen those items just sitting around in a world with next to no durability left at some point, making this another use for those who don't bother to actually finish consuming it just seems like a "Why not?" thing to do.

 

Alternatively, and the following thought is a rework mind you - would be to treat this like a cross between a stationary lantern and the long lamented removed Maxwell Lights of adventure mode days. Fill it up with fuel and it will activate whenever someone walks near it, draining slowly not unlike an ice flingomatic, except turning off when nobody is near, or when someone deactivates it. This option would be spectacular for Lights Out mode to replace this missing staple which was very multiplayer friendly for admins / hosts who spawned these in to allow newly joined players to get a quick grip on their surroundings without adding mods like "Starting items". Heck it could even become a new craftable in itself and a rare blueprint dropped by the Fuelweaver if so desired.

AND AS A QUICK ADDENDUM before I (digress) conclude and hope for some further discussion, I would also encourage people to look at the suggestion forum for what I'm calling Charlie Lights found here: http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/78069-charlie-lights/

 

Imo there's 2 ways to go about it. The first 3 ideas together, or the fourth on its own mainly.

I actually love the idea of Weaver dropping it, though I feel it would be a nice way to give the Shadow Pieces a new exclusive drop. Personally I really do prefer the fourth idea to all the rest.

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I can not be more agree with the first Quyzbuk idea, but I would be satisfied if at least the night light get some kind of small range of aura buff, not as small like the recent willow buff but common I'm sure this was already discussed for the regular don't starve, it's time to change it

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20 hours ago, Quyzbuk said:

The Night Light, already one of those craft-able magic tab things that garnered some heavily mixed feelings amongst all the players since its introduction back in Reign of Giants for singleplayer Don't Starve, no doubt is even more forgotten now with all the new high tier lights now available in ANR in the form of mushlights and such. If it wasn't already regarded as pretty useless by some people before, it certainly has more leaning toward that sentiment now.

Indeed, it is hard to even figure out how to talk about this; some things that we would consider bugged about these structures are probably features, and the suggestion forum... has a tendency to be a bit less visited for feedback in general, and is mostly viewed for the newest content / ideas.

 

So what do we do about them?

Well one of the first things I would suggest to carve out a better existence for this would be first to stop treating like an actual fire and make it unaffected by ice, flingos, luxury fans, and anything else that extinguishes fires (did rain affect it too? I forget). It's a MAGIC light, it only makes sense that something which uses fuel that is also magical (i.e. not combustible), should be unaffected by these things. (The coding certainly exists now in ANR)

Second, and I think this would really cement its sunk cost and viability, is to also make it unaffected by shadow hands. Lorewise it would be debatable how they would actually treat this, but it would have so much more value to most players if they could just throw some nightmare fuel in, and forget about them while they work in the light provided don't you think?

An optional third change would be to allow things like Night Swords & Armor to be allowed to be used as fuel similar to how grass / log suits can be thrown in regular campfires. We've all seen those items just sitting around in a world with next to no durability left at some point, making this another use for those who don't bother to actually finish consuming it just seems like a "Why not?" thing to do.

 

Alternatively, and the following thought is a rework mind you - would be to treat this like a cross between a stationary lantern and the long lamented removed Maxwell Lights of adventure mode days. Fill it up with fuel and it will activate whenever someone walks near it, draining slowly not unlike an ice flingomatic, except turning off when nobody is near, or when someone deactivates it.

 

20 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I would love a change to night lights. Although one thing I'd like to see is having them be an actual, you know, night light. Nightmare fuel provides a long burn time, but that's largely wasted when it keeps going at day and dusk. So in addition to what you've already proposed, I'd like to add the ability for it to "pause" it's fuel consumption when it's not needed, and only produce light when it is needed.

These 2 ideas are really good :) The night light should be change cos now there's no real point in using them (except for Willow maybe).

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Night lights have always been terrible for any functional purpose.  Expensive and using a resource that is generally not the cheapest option for lighting up an area.

 

You could maybe make an argument for night lights for ruins in ds because of the nightmare fuel farming that is possible but it's not like you couldn't plant trees anyway.  In dst it's not as easy to mass harvest and there are mushlights and stuff.

 

Anything that gives a niche is a good thing.

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I like the idea of the night light being immune to things that would normally put out fires (like night hands, rain, flingomatics)

21 hours ago, Quyzbuk said:

That would immediately erase its desirability if it became essentially a caves nightmare light. I included the "debatable lorewise" bit because one could argue that seeing the remains of a shadow creature being burned should theoretically scare off other shadows in this plane of existence (at least hands anyway, I don't want it to become a beacon of safety against shadow creatures).

The ability to hold nightmare creatures at bay when lit (just inside the light radius, standing still but attacking if the player stands too close) would give the Night Light some much needed niche value. This would make it useful for the werebeaver and fights with deerclops, since players wouldn't have to worry about fighting more than they can handle. To counterbalance this, the night light should have a larger and more potent insanity aura, so that players can't use it as a sort of safe space to ward off nightmares and recover sanity. Rather, it should function as a temporary shield when lit, while also giving players the option to lower their own sanity if they so choose.

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