Please nerf ancient fuelwearer! I'm begging you!!

[G0dsend]

4 minutes ago, Josonic said:

 

The difference is if klei thinks its important enough to be changed than it probably should be, if they don't and a modder does it then it probably was fine how it was. Once again, im not advocating a rebalance of fuelweaver because i don't know enough of the fight one way or another to comment on that, I do know that if someone argues that something isn't balanced a good counter argument is not "but mods exist". If you think fuelweaver fight is fine how it is the argument should be "i think its fine how it is". What do I do that i pointed fingers at others for doing?
 

 

I never said players who use mods or customization setting should be shunned, in fact I said the opposite.


 

You see other than the definition of cheating you seem to agree with everyone, but are arguing for the sake of arguing and attacking someone who suggested mods.... but when it was suggested that the boss was soloable without mods or that the the op should look into the bug that was negatively impacting him... His head exploded... mods were suggested because the community thinks the boss is fine and doesn't want it changed for the sake of one person's whims. You attacking the community member that suggested this, indirectly supports that individuals whims and counteracts your own beliefs about balance.... Perhaps you should read all the posts and ponder the ramifications of your statements before posting?

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Josonic said:

its pregame option

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?
I don't even think thats a thing.


If i have to boot up the game and then mess with options in said game that the game gave me (its not locked against anything) then its an ingame option.

 

I can't mess with options before I run the exe thats impossible.

[TheKingDedede]

12 minutes ago, Josonic said:

Yes using any of the world customization options is cheating, the devs also gave you console commands, would you not consider that cheating? I don't see how the 'devs made it so its not cheating' argument holds any water.

Of course changing the options menu isn't cheating as it doesn't affect the gameplay (are you intentionally being obtuse?)

For world settings, you don't have to hit the Tilde key and input a code.

[Rellimarual]

This random person on the Internet is entitled to define cheating however they want to, but there's no reason to give it any more credence than any other random Internet opinion. No one died and made them king of Deciding What Cheating Is.

Part of the point of adjustable world settings is that it allows new players to practice at a fairly complex game to the point that they're comfortable going to default, and maybe later still a challenge setting. I played single player DS at the start with hounds turned off, then set to less, then finally at default. I might not have stuck with it otherwise because the hounds stressed me out so much.

Since the mod does permit lowering the HP of just one mob, it seems like a great solution for the OP. If they are playing on PS, though, it's a shame they don't have the option. 

[Josonic]

54 minutes ago, G0dsend said:

You see other than the definition of cheating you seem to agree with everyone, but are arguing for the sake of arguing and attacking someone who suggested mods.... but when it was suggested that the boss was soloable without mods or that the the op should look into the bug that was negatively impacting him... His head exploded... mods were suggested because the community thinks the boss is fine and doesn't want it changed for the sake of one person's whims. You attacking the community member that suggested this, indirectly supports that individuals whims and counteracts your own beliefs about balance.... Perhaps you should read all the posts and ponder the ramifications of your statements before posting?

That's your opinion. My opinion is I didn't attack that person at all, I said that mods should not be given as a solution to someone's balancing concerns. You are reading into this what you want to believe

Also, as far as world customization settings go, imagine this scenario. You are watching a slideshow of someone's 4k day megabase, they've got amazing everything. Then you get to the last post where it's revealed that the creator had customization settings of only day, only autumn, and no smoldering. Just 3 changes. How are you gonna feel, like they cheated? Just less impressed. Or will you be just as thrilled about it as someone's legit amazing megabase?
 

I don't know how to properly quote someone from a previous page but FreyaMaluk said

Quote

Why do you think there is only "one way, the way" to play DST? Mods and world customization are options... Don't restrict the game to some ideal, dumb standards for all people!... Play the game the game you like it and let others experience the game however they want!... 

I never told people how to play the game. I never told people to not use mods or customization. I said it's cheating, which i firmly believe, and that it can be a fun thing to do which i occasionally do myself. Quit putting words in my mouth

[Josonic]

1 hour ago, Donke60 said:

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?
I don't even think thats a thing.


If i have to boot up the game and then mess with options in said game that the game gave me (its not locked against anything) then its an ingame option.

 

I can't mess with options before I run the exe thats impossible.

Everything you just said can be said about console commands, so i ask again, do you think console commands is cheating?

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Josonic said:

Everything you just said can be said about console commands, so i ask again, do you think console commands is cheating?

Yes console commands to a certain extent cheating. But your using a delvoper's console to do those things. If your just tweaking the world settings using the options that the game gives you in the world settings thats not cheating. Because your doing something the delvopers but there so you could do it. Your not using the Devlopers' console this way. Your not typing in DebugSpawns prefabs placements messing with storage data in the files.

 

3 hours ago, Josonic said:

Also, as far as world customization settings go, imagine this scenario. You are watching a slideshow of someone's 4k day megabase, they've got amazing everything. Then you get to the last post where it's revealed that the creator had customization settings of only day, only autumn, and no smoldering. Just 3 changes. How are you gonna feel, like they cheated? Just less impressed. Or will you be just as thrilled about it as someone's legit amazing megabase?
 

Megabases don't impress me at all I wouldn't be impressed others could. Because said player took almost all the challege out of the game still though that is not cheating they didn't use a Devlopers console to do any of the building. They just changed the world customize setttings to there liking and there is nothing wrong with that.

[FreyaMaluk]

this is getting nowhere... someone offers a solution with a mod, that person doesn't like mods cuz he considers them "cheating" or plays on a console. However,... he/she insists Klei must change the Ancient Fuelweaver's health to adjust the game to his/her individual needs. Like, what?? O.o

To be honest, I don't think Klei is gonna adjust health values on this boss. It's doable solo and it was thought to be fought in smaller groups. The devs said that themselves in a community stream: they wanted this boss to be defeatable in groups of two people. It's not like the old Toadstool with +180.000 health, which was pretty hard to defeat solo. So, yeap, you either try and learn how to deal with this boss solo... or get a friend... cuz if you don't like mods or can't use them, but cry out loud for a hp nerf that's just a little too much... You can't have it all!

And FYI, the devs use mods themselves when they play the game, cuz some mods are just really damn useful and balanced

[Josonic]

22 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

this is getting nowhere... someone offers a solution with a mod, that person doesn't like mods cuz he considers them "cheating" or plays on a console. However,... he/she insists Klei must change the Ancient Weavers health. Like, what?? O.o

To be honest, I don't think Klei is gonna adjust health values on this boss. It's doable solo and it was thought to be fought in smaller groups. The devs said that themselves in a community stream: they wanted this boss to be defeatable in groups of two people. It's not like the old Toadstool with +180.000 health, which was pretty hard to defeat solo. So, yeap, you either try and learn how to deal with this boss solo... or get a friend... cuz if you don't like mods or can't use them, but cry out loud for a hp nerf that's just a little too much... You can't have it all!

And FYI, the devs use mods themselves when they play the game, cuz some mods are just really damn useful and balanced

Are you talking about me? I repeatedly said I have no opinions on the fuelweaver fight. I don't believe he's even released on ps4 yet.

Yea and I never said don't use mods, tell me where i said that? I said that its cheating, and cheating can be fun, and i like cheating myself from time to time. And my original point was, because some people see mods as cheating, it shouldn't be offered in response to someone's complaints about balancing (whether or not those complaints are justified)

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, Josonic said:

Are you talking about me? I repeatedly said I have no opinions on the fuelweaver fight. I don't believe he's even released on ps4 yet.

OP is about the Ancient Fuelweaver's health... if you wanna discuss the "mods and world customization options are cheating" argument, you can do it in another thread... This is about nerffing the Ancient Fuelweaver's health and what people have to say about that!

[F2Li2]

(I do not wish to join the argument or anything anyone's said beyond the original post.)

Not to be rude, but I don't think that they should change the overall game to cater to a small(er) group of people, and this is coming from a person who's played on a server maybe twice, only for a few hours in total.

I hate playing with mods that affect the game itself, but I consider the mod Dynamic Health Scaling to be a perfectly legitimate path to take, and I install it on all of my singleplayer DST worlds. I recommend it to anyone who doesn't want to spend up to an hour and a ridiculous amount of armor on a single boss.

[Corvidae]

On 22 April 2017 at 7:05 PM, noname167 said:

I see we have different meanings of "small", or maybe you havent played this game as much as me. I've played DST for 992 hours (in steam), i've seen people that like to play it alone sometimes.

The sheer arrogance out of you is truly stunning. You've done nothing but belittle and insult people in this topic and speak as if you are representative of the playerbase of a multiplayer game.

You're not. At all. I'm basically a solo player myself and I think you couldn't be further from the truth. Please get off of your high beefalo.

4 hours ago, Josonic said:

Giving a mod as a 'solution' doesn't seem very polite to me. Many people can't use mods (weak computers, console players, non cheaters) and those people get really frustrated at the community trying to shove mods down our throat

Offering a mod as a solution to a problem that will otherwise not be solved is the definition of polite. It's a "here, this can solve the problem you are having" instead of "tch. nothin personnell kid" and saying you're SOL. When a person makes an unreasonable demand, the options are either to use a mod or to deal with it.

[Histekia]

I fought the fuelwaver now already 4 times, 1 time with 4 other people, 3 Times alone and I play a little bit more then a year, maybe one and a half DST mostly alone, but I dont consider myself a rookie, probably because of my over 1,8 k hours of playtime or maybe because i dont need to watch youtube (what is totally not a shame!) to find out how a boss should be fought

Sure DST is a multiplayer game THAT also can be played alone BUT its only logic that if you play with more people it costs you (and I mean you yourself) less armor weapon etc, while playing alone it costs more, is harder, takes longer etc

Its made this way, in my opinion, just right
People who dont want to (but are able to) use mods to scale hp down or up are totally alright, no one forces you to use them, they are just one solution that you dont need to take if you dont want to, but looking at the fact that ANR is already out of Beta for a while now and the fuelwaver IS fightable alone and with other players (that is a fact, he is fightable alone, of course its harder but it isnt impossible) I dont think KLEI will change him, also the community seems to not really want this, unlike with toadstool back in the Beta

All in all I dont think fuelwaver should be changed

[Diaboliko]

The hardest thing about the Fuel Weaver is carrying the marble heads to get atrium heart. Fuel Weaver himself gets wrecked by rock lobsters (when provided with some assistance). Oh, and another hard thing is getting rock lobsters into his room. Pray on "luck" and hope that they will teleport close to his room :>

[Spaartan]

I think the original poster already has his problem fixed, and Josonic is just

1. Derailing the topic
2. Pissing everyone off
3. Treating a suggestion as an "insult"
4. Acting as if he is the representative of a part of the player base
5. Making me agree with @The Curator for once (we usually have contrasting opinions), yeah where is that dislike button?

[Josonic]

5 minutes ago, Spaartan said:

I think the original poster already has his problem fixed, and Josonic is just

1. Derailing the topic
2. Pissing everyone off
3. Treating a suggestion as an "insult"
4. Acting as if he is the representative of a part of the player base
5. Making me agree with @The Curator for once (we usually have contrasting opinions), yeah where is that dislike button?

1. True
2. True
3. True
4. Eh, i thought i did a pretty good job of saying that its my opinion and not everyone agrees
5. True

[Spaartan]

1 minute ago, Josonic said:

1. True
2. True
3. True
4. Eh, i thought i did a pretty good job of saying that its my opinion and not everyone agrees
5. True

Yay 4/5 score!

[The Curator]

6 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

"OP Characters" 

No character is really OP. Specially not WX in that video... He's got extremely low stats, I don't think he upgraded once.

Exploits - It can be done exactly the same with a Lazy Explorer, go right ahead.

Console Commands - Where? It's quite obvious he didn't or he'd spawn in a Lazy. 

 

.-.

What video. The original comment was referring to all the resources on the internet for teaching how to combat the Fuelweaver, at no point was a specific source mentioned. And most of them showcased are done by the combat OP characters; not even going to bother addressing "No character is really OP"; accomplished using mechanic exploits or by spawning in massive amounts of resources with console commands.

 

6 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Why do you think there is only "one way, the way" to play DST? Mods and world customization are options... Don't restrict the game to some ideal, dumb standards for all people!... Play the game the game you like it and let others experience the game however they want!... 

In a world where concepts like reputation, dignity, respect, value; and so on do not exist. Yes, "do what you want" is applicable.

But not in this world. Cheating ruins the integrity of the game especially when people are showcasing or practicing it in the presence of others. Even uttering the concept of "freedom" on planet Earth is a joke really, especially when you do it while oppressing another's opinion; which in your fantasy world of freedom they would have the right to.

And thus it becomes a paradox of how hypocritical your definition of freedom is if it denies others the right to exercise their oppression of freedom which is in turn another aspect of freedom. Perhaps someday you will make a comment which holds some real structure to it.

[Donke60]

4 hours ago, The Curator said:

What video. The original comment was referring to all the resources on the internet for teaching how to combat the Fuelweaver, at no point was a specific source mentioned. And most of them showcased are done by the combat OP characters; not even going to bother addressing "No character is really OP"; accomplished using mechanic exploits or by spawning in massive amounts of resources with console commands.

The point was to show that it can be done. Wether you find it legitmate based on your own bias is yours opinion and your own decision. However the video does show it can be done and that is fact.

 

4 hours ago, The Curator said:

In a world where concepts like reputation, dignity, respect, value; and so on do not exist. Yes, "do what you want" is applicable.

You can always do what you want even in this world though you pay for you actions and as consquence suffer in these categories in the instances you described

4 hours ago, The Curator said:

But not in this world. Cheating ruins the integrity of the game especially when people are showcasing or practicing it in the presence of others. Even uttering the concept of "freedom" on planet Earth is a joke really, especially when you do it while oppressing another's opinion; which in your fantasy world of freedom they would have the right to.

Your view of cheating is your view alone.
I will not ask for your concept of freedom. Freedom is always tricky no matter how you describe it for it is a concept more then a thing. Though do not change the subject and from games to concepts for this is not what the thread is about. You are sharing your opinion opposing your own view on the subject are you saying that in your world you do not have the right to do so?

 

4 hours ago, The Curator said:

And thus it becomes a paradox of how hypocritical your definition of freedom is if it denies others the right to exercise their oppression of freedom which is in turn another aspect of freedom. Perhaps someday you will make a comment which holds some real structure to it.

Freedom is a concept that can be taken anyway so it is only natural that it can make a logical paradox  however I do not know enough of @FreyaMaluk opinion on freedom to say if its hypocritical.

 

and this isn't really the platform to discuss such thing in any case

 

.

 

[Bunions]

[FreyaMaluk]

6 hours ago, The Curator said:

What video. The original comment was referring to all the resources on the internet for teaching how to combat the Fuelweaver, at no point was a specific source mentioned. And most of them showcased are done by the combat OP characters; not even going to bother addressing "No character is really OP"; accomplished using mechanic exploits or by spawning in massive amounts of resources with console commands.

what is in that video OP?? Use a weather pain, a bee queen crown and a lazy explorer... period... That's all the strategy. It's a pretty decent and straight up use of the resources of the game... have you even watched the video?? Besides, it is an example that it can be done solo... Take it as an example only that it is possible! But again, we go back to the main issue, this boss is suppose to be defeated by two people minimum! The devs intended this boss to work like that, exactly the same approach with the "Metheus" puzzle. Get used to the fact that the devs want the game to be played as a cooperative experience, even though a considerable portion of player also play alone. I do play alone myself, but I play with a friend when I want to defeat a boss! 

6 hours ago, The Curator said:

In a world where concepts like reputation, dignity, respect, value; and so on do not exist. Yes, "do what you want" is applicable.

But not in this world. Cheating ruins the integrity of the game especially when people are showcasing or practicing it in the presence of others. Even uttering the concept of "freedom" on planet Earth is a joke really, especially when you do it while oppressing another's opinion; which in your fantasy world of freedom they would have the right to.

Really, dude?? This is a video game, not a moral code of life! Damn fanboys! Commands, mods and world config options are useful for testing things! This is not the evidence of your personal moral compass. It's a ******* video game for God's sake! It's not a religion and there are no rules for how people "should" play the game! That's why the devs support mods and showcast them. Moreover, that's why we don't have achievements: you can create your own challenges and mess around with the mod configs and everything that offers the game. Mods are an interesting part of the game's experience and the devs have integrated some mods into the main game already exactly for that reason. I do consider many mods OP, but that's my personal opinion and I do not use them for that reason, but I do not generalize mods as cheating per se like you do, because some mods are balanced and simply nice aesthetic additions to the game. And it is that generalization I do not agree with.

Moreover, the devs use commands themselves in the community stream for testing things and showing the new changes, cuz you have not all the time in the world to build everything from scratch when you just want to see how things work! It is of course clear for everyone that using commands in a normal playthrough is not what's intended, but it doesn't mean that you cannot use them for testing in another world used for tests only! And this is exactly what that video shows.. It's a test that this boss can be defeated solo!

And in which world do you live that you take a counterargument as "oppression"? I'm not attacking your freedom, I'm just saying that your generalizations about the game and how the game is "suppose" to be played are out of tune and to the point of being strict religious rules that do not exist anywhere in the game!  

Finally, you know what is the the saddest part of this thread overall?? That this thread wouldn't even exist if OP's author would've even bothered to find someone to play with. You know, there is a section specially for that on this website, but no... the alternative is causing chaos and demanding this boss is to be nerfed just for the sake of it... 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

14 hours ago, Josonic said:

Giving a mod as a 'solution' doesn't seem very polite to me. Many people can't use mods (weak computers, console players, non cheaters) and those people get really frustrated at the community trying to shove mods down our throat

Well then just...

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/269470216286866433/576E6364D09F92E98A2CDA8D7138FCF8429928BA/

[Rellimarual]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Moreover, the devs use commands themselves in the community stream for testing things and showing the new changes, cuz you have not all the time in the world to build everything from scratch when you just want to see how things work! It is of course clear for everyone that using commands in a normal playthrough is not what's intended, but it doesn't mean that you cannot use them for testing in another world used for tests only! And this is exactly what that video shows.. It's a test that this boss can be defeated solo!

As the video explains, it's a test of whether the player can solo the Fuel Weaver without a Lazy Explorer because he plans to attempt this in a play-through he's been posting to YouTube, playing as Maxwell. The guy posts a lot of videos and if you watch them it's obvious that he doesn't need to spawn in supplies.

But I guess the real issue is that people have so much riding on the show-off value of boss-fight videos and base screenshots, and whether or not someone else is unfairly reaping the precious, precious admiration of other DS fans. Nobody's ego should be riding so hard on how good they are at a video game. That people take it so seriously seems a lot more disturbing than any trumped-up moralizing about mods. Find something real to care about this much.

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, Rellimarual said:

As the video explains, it's a test of whether the player can solo the Fuel Weaver without a Lazy Explorer because he plans to attempt this in a play-through he's been posting to YouTube, playing as Maxwell. The guy posts a lot of videos and if you watch them it's obvious that he doesn't need to spawn in supplies.

But I guess the real issue is that people have so much riding on the show-off value of boss-fight videos and base screenshots, and whether or not someone else is unfairly reaping the precious, precious admiration of other DS fans. Nobody's ego should be riding so hard on how good they are at a video game. That people take it so seriously seems a lot more disturbing than any trumped-up moralizing about mods. Find something real to care about this much.

I totally agree... I don't understand why you are quoting me here... ?? O.o

Mods are suppose to be fun! That's why I find it so dumb when people take a particular way of playing a game almost to the point of a religious moral code of life... I did explained this in the post you quoted. Might be nice if you read all posts, before judging people responses

Besides, the discussion here is about nerfing the Ancient Fuelweaver, what I don't agree with and many people here share the same opinion. You should read the whole thing, cuz I thing you are missing why I said what I said. Anyway.. this is not getting anywhere cuz people are now polarizing around mods and world config options instead of discussing OP. Therefore, I'm not commenting anymore here. 

 

[Mr.Tarunio]

people judge and just want attention
 

Quote

Take the high road: Trolls are people who will post negative or rude comments to get a rise out of the community. Ignoring these trolls simply stops their efforts to get attention for themselves.