EsaiXD

wolfgang rebalance

64 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, DatShadowJK said:

I agree, if you want to play the game as Wilson, and NOT Wolfgang, and complain about Wolfgang needing a nerf, you DO NOT understand that every character has a downside. Some may be a bit, not harsh, but those are characters probably for those who just start the game...

ive played all the characters and know the ups and downs for each but each also have a way of fighting against those ups and downs be it with their own abilities or just standard items in game. wolfgangs need for hunger is completely negated with the hunger pelt and funcap and being veterans of the game im sure you guys can fight things without needing armor and take in the full benefits of this character without any downside

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Wolfgang is indeed a bit too powerful compared to Wicker or WX-78, Wicker has insomnia and less gain from spoiling, WX doesn't get much of a charge and he is just a tank character. Wilson is simple like bland pudding, nothing really to talk about him, he is more like a character that makes simple power of a healthy simple human being.

Wolfgang is one of the chars that is sorta hard to be balanced atm, which this topic gonna help us discuss how we can make him have a bit more difficulty, because even if he gets more insane by creatures, he would easily slice and dice nightmares like butter to get that sanity back. I think he should have a downside of slower attacks vs normal monsters, and normal attacks on nightmares. He would still have his full damage, which will make you HAVE to kill nightmares if you wanna regain the attack speed of killing monsters. He would only have the downside on the monsters that starts draining sanity (besides nightmares) because of his trait of being scared of nasties.

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I think a nerf that basically stuns Wolfgang mid battle would be the wrong way to go.

I wouldn't object to him having a sanity based skill check though. I'd personally double the amount of shadow monsters that spawn for him and reduce the amount of sanity he gains from killing them. I feel like this suits his character, while also providing an added risk/reward factor (not to mention that this functions as a minor Willow buff due to its synergy with Bernie).

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hmm having a slower attack speed can make him a bit more balanced out on his damage idk how much though was kinda thinking a little bit slower than beefalo attack speed as while on a beef you can only get 1 less hit in ,,,, or maybe make it so you cant cancel your attack as a wolfgang kind of how single player dont starve works

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9 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

hunger pelt and funcap... being veterans of the game

You're saying this as a given, but I'm pretty sure that's <8% of all players, let alone Wolfgangs.

As you're focusing on damage multiplier, why not ask to reduce that rather than introduce weird/character-specific mechanics?

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

this is a quote of your post tell me what his downside is

I am completely convinced that you don't read 90% of what people say.

11 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

you know all of the stuff you say on how wicker is so powerful as she can just use cactus taffy or other things to disregard her downside. you can basically do the same thing with wolfgang too with the belt of hunger and the funcaps having a 65 percent hunger drain reduction   you can pretty much stay mighty the whole fight and not even have to be shoveling food into your face  and not even worry about food in fights which is why sanity needs to play a bigger role on him than it just draining more

That means you sacrifice a chest and head slot, what's wrong with that?

Quote

well no my suggestion was that he misses based on a percentaged chance on his sanity which starts when he is below 100 or maybe below 80 since that is the percent beardlords and beardlings show up  doesnt change much other than he wont hit about a forth of the time if you are fully insane

Again, that is an annoying mechanic. A better nerf would be to reduce his damage linearly by up to 25% when he is fully insane, not this dumb random chance thing.

Quote

 that is the essence of his character  being the scardy cat but he has a bunch of muscle that is why the missing would some what incline him to be played more smartly rather than just mighty and mow through everything you can still do that but you have to keep an eye on another stat rather than just hunger.

Because as if you don't have to babysit Wolfgang's hunger enough, you also add another stat to babysit for no good reason other than to annoy players. It doesn't make the character harder to play, it makes the character less fun to play.

11 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

ive played all the characters and know the ups and downs for each but each also have a way of fighting against those ups and downs be it with their own abilities or just standard items in game. wolfgangs need for hunger is completely negated with the hunger pelt and funcap and being veterans of the game im sure you guys can fight things without needing armor and take in the full benefits of this character without any downside

'ive played all the characters' is very hard to believe since you don't even know how powerful Wickerbottom and WX-78 are.

8 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

hmm having a slower attack speed can make him a bit more balanced out on his damage idk how much though was kinda thinking a little bit slower than beefalo attack speed as while on a beef you can only get 1 less hit in ,,,, or maybe make it so you cant cancel your attack as a wolfgang kind of how single player dont starve works

As @Donke60 said, 'A combat character that can't do combat yay'. Let's make a combat character be worse in combat, that makes sense.

Edited by JohnWatson
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3 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

More nightmares would be a buff, not a nerf. Though, less sanity gain from killing nightmares seems like a good nerf, but that might make nightmare farming easier. How about if his damage buff didn't apply to nightmares?

I rather have this though that I feel would put Wig on a higher pedestal though that might be nitpicky

11 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

hmm having a slower attack speed can make him a bit more balanced out on his damage idk how much though was kinda thinking a little bit slower than beefalo attack speed as while on a beef you can only get 1 less hit in ,,,, or maybe make it so you cant cancel your attack as a wolfgang kind of how single player dont starve works

That is really bad for sometimes the small windows of time that you have to hit enimes and you have to factor lag into the equation not everyone all the time is going to have a ping perfect connection. It would really suck if you did everything right but didn't get your hit in just because Wolfgang wants to take his time hitting things.

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Just now, Donke60 said:

That is really bad for sometimes the small windows of time that you have to hit enimes and you have to factor lag into the equation not everyone all the time is going to have a ping perfect connection. It would really suck if you did everything right but didn't get your hit in just because Wolfgang wants to take his time hitting things.

Basically, what he is suggesting is artificial lag and unresponsiveness meant to be annoying and unfun. What a great mechanic. As if latency doesn't make combat frustrating enough.

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In all honesty I think wolfgang is fine to use him well or decently he asks more of you then most characters and if you can use him well and know the correct times to change forms then you have earned his power. I don't think we should really change him when there are characters more worthy of attention ,williow, woodie could use a slight beaver buff. Maxwell puppets could have AI commands or better combat AI. Wolfgang works decently well we should just tack on more things for players to manage just because we want the "character' to be challaging again. If you want that just pick a new character to play

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35 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

I am completely convinced that you don't read 90% of what people say.

well if im not getting it why dont you tell me what his downside is cause your posts doesnt show anything

19 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

I rather have this though that I feel would put Wig on a higher pedestal though that might be nitpicky

That is really bad for sometimes the small windows of time that you have to hit enimes and you have to factor lag into the equation not everyone all the time is going to have a ping perfect connection. It would really suck if you did everything right but didn't get your hit in just because Wolfgang wants to take his time hitting things.

not really if you have prediction disabled you can pretty much destroy anything on a decent lag   but how about this make him attack slower kind of how you attack slower with a beefalo  and it scales to a 25 percent slower speed at insane.. now this doesnt mean you cant do quick single hits you can still do every aspect of fighting  so if you hold of at 0 sanity you would only get 2 hits in rather  than getting the normal 4. and that would ramp ups from 50 percent of sanity to insane.

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3 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

not really if you have prediction disabled you can pretty much destroy anything on a decent lag   but how about this make him attack slower kind of how you attack slower with a beefalo  and it scales to a 25 percent slower speed at insane.. now this doesnt mean you cant do quick single hits you can still do every aspect of fighting  so if you hold of at 0 sanity you would only get 2 hits in rather  than getting the normal 4. and that would ramp ups from 50 percent of sanity to insane.

First of all Yes 
Still sounds terrible. You should never put anything that acts like Lag unless the casting time is clearly shown or the attack is ranged.Or its a charge and the character can move while charging

 

3 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

well if im not getting it why dont you tell me what his downside is cause your posts doesnt show anything

@JohnWatson point is that Wilson doesn't really have any perks, yes he has his beard but you can survive winter fine with out it and other that its only good at making on thing. And if you don't want beard hair you can just make life amulets. 

Most characters have downsides that are completely manageable or negliable and the perks that come with those characters are why better and less situational then Wilson. Wilson is not a jack of all trades he is just entry level. Thats it. Wigfrid or WX-78 and wickerbottom I would consider Jack of all trades characters more then Wilson. As I've said before Wilson is a boring box of crackers.

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14 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

well if im not getting it why dont you tell me what his downside is cause your posts doesnt show anything

I have repeated myself over and over, the problem lies with you only reading 10% of other people's posts. Anybody that reads posts in their entirety would know that I already stated Wilson's huge downside several times very clearly.

Quote

not really if you have prediction disabled you can pretty much destroy anything on a decent lag   but how about this make him attack slower kind of how you attack slower with a beefalo  and it scales to a 25 percent slower speed at insane.. now this doesnt mean you cant do quick single hits you can still do every aspect of fighting  so if you hold of at 0 sanity you would only get 2 hits in rather  than getting the normal 4. and that would ramp ups from 50 percent of sanity to insane.

That's even more annoying, you already have to adjust for Wolfgang's linearly scaling speed and damage and now you have a third thing to adjust to. Why are you so convinced that a combat character shouldn't be able to perform combat effectively? Again, it's just a mechanic meant to annoy the player for no good reason.

A simple change like turning his maximum damage multiplier from x2 to x1.75 is better than any of what you're suggesting. It's simple, it's not annoying, and it doesn't make the character less fun to play as. That nerf took me seconds to come up with and it's already better than the artificial lag nerfs that you are suggesting.

9 minutes ago, TheKingDedede said:

If you're a person with strong muscles, why would you suddenly start swinging a weapon slower?

I dunno, maybe we should focus on buffing other characters first. I've never really been a big fan of topics like this, since they seem to dissolve into arguing. I just wanted to respond to this because I disagree with these proposed nerfs. They really do sound like artificial lag being heaped onto a character that doesn't need it.

I agree with focusing on buffs instead of nerfs first. The problem with some of the characters in this game is that their upsides are often irrelevant in most situations or they are outclassed by a better character. Also, nerfing characters risks making the game less interesting to play, while buffs would almost always make the game more interesting when done right.

1 minute ago, Donke60 said:

@JohnWatson point is that Wilson doesn't really have any perks, yes he has his beard but you can survive winter fine with out it and other that its only good at making on thing. And if you don't want beard hair you can just make life amulets. 


Most characters have downsides that are completely manageable or negliable and the perks that come with those characters are why better and less situational then Wilson. Wilson is not a jack of all trades he is just entry level. Thats it. Wigfrid or WX-78 and wickerbottom I would consider Jack of all trades characters more then Wilson. As I've said before Wilson is a boring box of crackers.

True, that was my point. A jack-of-all-trades would be someone that can do a lot more than most other people. Wickerbottom fits the description of a jack-of-all-trades waaayyy better than Wilson does. Wilson, at first, may appear to have no downsides, but if you think you would realise that if all other characters have upsides better than Wilson's, then Wilson lacking those upsides is his true downside.

The same applies for all other characters, Wolfgang has the downside of not having Wickerbottom's books and Woodie's axe, but it is offset by his own upsides of damage and speed. WX-78 has the downside of not having Willow's fire resistance and Wendy's Abigail, but those downsides are again offset by his own upsides. Wilson isn't an exception to this, and he has no good upsides to offset those downsides.

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On 4/26/2017 at 2:41 PM, EsaiXD said:

what downside does wilson have?  he is the basic character that has none he is a jack of all trades

In a multiplayer game where players have the ability to select from a variety of characters with their own upsides and drawbacks and mechanics, it's that Wilson's upside seems incredibly underwhelming. Sure, I like him as a character, but gameplay-wise, he doesn't bring much to the table. He can't really fight all that well, he can't read (For some reason), he can't get stronger, and his beard stops being useful after a while. At least his skins look nice.

I think that's what JohnWatson was trying to get across, but I may be wrong.

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Posted (edited)

Eh, most characters have their cases.
Even Wilson, he's good for newbies. Free excess insulation, perk with nothing special to manage/craft/ect, they'll probably ragequit before Summer comes anyway. Also good if for some reason you just really want extra insulation, or meat effigies.
And you can counter all of that by going for better options to suit your needs. I personally make life giving amulets and beef hats ASAP, so Wilson doesn't have much use to my usual play style.
...It would be nice if he could do something sciency for later game appeal, tbh.

Still, same goes for any character. They almost all have uses, and they're all easily replaceable if you change up your approach. Less damage? More weapons and healing items.
Wolfgang's hunger isn't a problem, but I'd say he's only as op as Wicker is with a green shroom forest or a supporting Maxwell.
Wigfrid is better than Wolf if you want to be a self-sustaining nomad for extended periods of time. She's extremely strong in that role.
ect ect

There's only one character I can think of that has no advantage, but...y'know.
That war's been fought plenty a time. Every time I close my eyes I freshly recall the bloodshed.

Edited by Pyr0mrcow
the great war of *numerical hand gestures*

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8 minutes ago, Pyr0mrcow said:

Eh, most characters have their cases.
Even Wilson, he's good for newbies. Free excess insulation, perk with nothing special to manage/craft/ect, they'll probably ragequit before Summer comes anyway. Also good if for some reason you just really want extra insulation, or meat effigies.
And you can counter all of that by going for better options to suit your needs. I personally make life giving amulets and beef hats ASAP, so Wilson doesn't have much use to my usual play style.
...It would be nice if he could do something sciency for later game appeal, tbh.

If I remember correctly, someone once suggested the idea of giving Wilson the ability to craft potions. Most of the community got mad at the idea, though, for some reason. I didn't think it sounded half-bad. Maybe the potions could be thrown or consumed? If so, we should probably create a Wilson thread and make suggestions as to improve or change the character, and then do the same for other characters.

Also, as a side-note, I used to play almost exclusively Wilson. Wilson everyday and every night on these three servers I used to play on. The problem I noticed with Wilson was that he stopped being helpful late-game, though. Nobody really made Meat Effigies, since by the time late-game rolled around, we just used Life Amulets exclusively. Nobody wanted to bother with the health penalty the Effigy brought with it. His beard hair stopped being useful as there were other sources you could get it from (Bunnyman farming while insane especially). After a while, I just stopped caring about what the beard did for him and wanted something else he could do for the team. But I'll still stand by the fact that Wilson is a great beginner character. Want to learn the ropes and read some funny quotes? Pick Wilson with no noticeable downsides, guaranteed.

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3 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

If I remember correctly, someone once suggested the idea of giving Wilson the ability to craft potions. Most of the community got mad at the idea, though, for some reason. I didn't think it sounded half-bad. Maybe the potions could be thrown or consumed? If so, we should probably create a Wilson thread and make suggestions as to improve or change the character, and then do the same for other characters.

Also, as a side-note, I used to play almost exclusively Wilson. Wilson everyday and every night on these three servers I used to play on. The problem I noticed with Wilson was that he stopped being helpful late-game, though. Nobody really made Meat Effigies, since by the time late-game rolled around, we just used Life Amulets exclusively. Nobody wanted to bother with the health penalty the Effigy brought with it. His beard hair stopped being useful as there were other sources you could get it from (Bunnyman farming while insane especially). After a while, I just stopped caring about what the beard did for him and wanted something else he could do for the team. But I'll still stand by the fact that Wilson is a great beginner character. Want to learn the ropes and read some funny quotes? Pick Wilson with no noticeable downsides, guaranteed.

I saw a similar idea for buffing Warly and this fits Wilson better. Also because Wilson doesn't have anyother downsides you could make it so that potions could do downsides for even bigger upsides. This would give Wilson the abilty to become the Jack of all trades character the community once to project on to him. Though this change would be a whole character rework almost and maybe even a new crafting station.

I don't think anyone argues that Wilson is a terrible character especailly to learn the ropes but thats about it once you have gotten use to the basics there not much if anything you can do more with Wilson. in DS it fine because you start with him and you have to learn the ropes a little before you get another character.
 

But in DST there is no character lock so there is no reason to be Wilson when there are characters that can do his job better or do more jobs easier then him and  have more skill potential.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Why are you so convinced that a combat character shouldn't be able to perform combat effectively? Again, it's just a mechanic meant to annoy the player for no good reason.

cause every single character can do combat just as good as he can and the down sides of him being a combat character is non exisitant due to the fact that sanity isnt an issue and you can slow his hunger with the belt and cap cause of these he is really strong without any effictive downsides to make his strength more balanced

 

5 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

True, that was my point. A jack-of-all-trades would be someone that can do a lot more than most other people. Wickerbottom fits the description of a jack-of-all-trades waaayyy better than Wilson does. Wilson, at first, may appear to have no downsides, but if you think you would realise that if all other characters have upsides better than Wilson's, then Wilson lacking those upsides is his true downside.

now how hard was that to tell me what you thought wilsons downside was hmmm. you had no mentioning of what his downside was you just mentioned  if you analyse him.  and yeah characters do have upsides but that is also the reason they have a downside to balance those upsides. hence based on that logic wilson has no downsides since he has no upside.

 

all of this stuff im talking of the characters alone and not comparing to 1 another since yeah  the reason why other characters are different and "better" cause they have their own unique qualities   its like judging it on people. you got 2 people that can do the same thing but person requires a nap at the start of the day  in order to work at a more efficient pace than person 2 

 downside of person 1 is that you lose time at the start of your day but you could make it up cause he is a better worker.  However person 2 you can leave be as they  will just do  what person 1 does  but at a slower pace for longer.  It all just depends on what you want out of the situation

Edited by EsaiXD

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3 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

now how hard was that to tell me what you thought wilsons downside was hmmm. you had no mentioning of what his downside was you just mentioned  if you analyse him.  and yeah characters do have upsides but that is also the reason they have a downside to balance those upsides. hence based on that logic wilson has no downsides since he has no upside.

:(

 

3 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

cause every single character can do combat just as good as he can and the down sides of him being a combat character is non exisitant due to the fact that sanity isnt an issue and you can slow his hunger with the belt and cap cause of these he is really strong without any effictive downsides to make his strength more balanced

Wolfgang does it better though and thats why you choose him. Your making way to many assumptions assuming that all players that play wolfgang will be able to have the skill to get a belt of hunger and kill Toadstool for its hat. And even if they do that  it gives them no armor so unless your  mr.Need for Speed your going to get hit and its going to hurt when you do which makes it a bad combat option for anything worth fighting.

 

You can also negate anybodies Downsides with getting the corrsponding items. 

  • Webber Tam
  • Wes belt and weatherpain or any indirect damage source
  • Wendy darts or same for wes
  • Maxwell life amulets and armor
  • Woodie pinecones and cave dwelling
  • Wickerbottom fridge and mushrooms
  • Williow tam and green caps

See did it every characters OP and needs a rework because with these items there broken.

Your being to close minded and only think about players close to your skill range and not all of them and I've seen enough Wolfgang noobs struggle with his change states to know that its a hurdle if your not use to it.

Even if you still debate with us none of the changes you propose have been anywhere from good fits. By multiple people

 

3 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

now how hard was that to tell me what you thought wilsons downside was hmmm. you had no mentioning of what his downside was you just mentioned  if you analyse him.  and yeah characters do have upsides but that is also the reason they have a downside to balance those upsides. hence based on that logic wilson has no downsides since he has no upside.

Hey you understanding him was do to your own incompetence not understanding him when he repeated himself multiple times.
He didn't even phase himself in a difficult way.

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Here is my ideas:

*Wolfgang loose hunger as a normal player in normal mode;

*Hunger goes down faster if it's higher than 200 hunger;

----------------------------------------------------------------------

*Wolfgang needs MORE food on mighty mode, because the food he eats has a bit less hunger value and is small compared to his size;

or

*Wolfgang swings slower on bosses that are scary on really low sanity, swings normally on mobs that aren't nightmares.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

.-.

._.

:I

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43 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

cause every single character can do combat just as good as he can and the down sides of him being a combat character is non exisitant due to the fact that sanity isnt an issue and you can slow his hunger with the belt and cap cause of these he is really strong without any effictive downsides to make his strength more balanced

Every character can use those items. They aren't Wolfgang-exclusive.

43 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

now how hard was that to tell me what you thought wilsons downside was hmmm. you had no mentioning of what his downside was you just mentioned  if you analyse him.  and yeah characters do have upsides but that is also the reason they have a downside to balance those upsides. hence based on that logic wilson has no downsides since he has no upside.

I am absolutely convinced you refuse read anything I say at all. I have repeated myself so many times and you just ignore my explanations, then proceed to claim that I have explained nothing. I'm not writing another paragraph for you to ignore yet again. 

43 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

all of this stuff im talking of the characters alone and not comparing to 1 another since yeah  the reason why other characters are different and "better" cause they have their own unique qualities   its like judging it on people. you got 2 people that can do the same thing but person requires a nap at the start of the day  in order to work at a more efficient pace than person 2

 downside of person 1 is that you lose time at the start of your day but you could make it up cause he is a better worker.  However person 2 you can leave be as they  will just do  what person 1 does  but at a slower pace for longer.  It all just depends on what you want out of the situation

Sorry, but I can barely understand that paragraph. None of that has to do with anything regardless, what is even your point here?


In case you actually decide to start reading posts in their entirety, here's my most recent explanation of Wilson's downside:

Spoiler

 

Quote

A jack-of-all-trades would be someone that can do a lot more than most other people. Wickerbottom fits the description of a jack-of-all-trades waaayyy better than Wilson does. Wilson, at first, may appear to have no downsides, but if you think you would realise that if all other characters have upsides better than Wilson's, then Wilson lacking those upsides is his true downside.

The same applies for all other characters, Wolfgang has the downside of not having Wickerbottom's books and Woodie's axe, but it is offset by his own upsides of damage and speed. WX-78 has the downside of not having Willow's fire resistance and Wendy's Abigail, but those downsides are again offset by his own upsides. Wilson isn't an exception to this, and he has no good upsides to offset those downsides

 

 

2 minutes ago, Mantas said:

Here is my ideas:

*Wolfgang loose hunger as a normal player in normal mode;

*Hunger goes down faster if it's higher than 200 hunger;

*Wolfgang needs MORE food on mighty mode, because the food he eats has a bit less hunger value and is small compared to his size;

I think that's more of a buff than a nerf, though. x1.5 during normal mode is already a good downside, it makes unexperienced Wolfgang players become more of a burden when they don't know how to manage his forms and refuse stay Mighty. IMO, what balances Wolfgang the most is how you need to be a somewhat experienced player to play him effectively. A player entirely new to the game and picking Wolfgang as a starter would have massive trouble because Wolfgang is all about management, which new players lack.

Increasing his hunger drain won't matter really much. The x3 drain is already extreme but competent Wolfgang players are still able to maintain their Mighty form.

2 minutes ago, Mantas said:

*Wolfgang swings slower on bosses that are scary on really low sanity, swings normally on mobs that aren't nightmares.

That's the same artificial lag suggestion that OP is suggesting. It's annoying and unnecessary. If you want to nerf Wolfgang's DPS, then nerf his damage multiplier instead of adding more inconsistencies.

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6 hours ago, Donke60 said:

Wendy darts or same for wes

That is actually really bad as darts even take the damage reduction all wendy needs is a ham bat and she is good to go

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

I am absolutely convinced you refuse read anything I say at all. I have repeated myself so many times and you just ignore my explanations, then proceed to claim that I have explained nothing. I'm not writing another paragraph for you to ignore yet again. 

i have read what you said and im sorry if i cant figure out what the heck you have been trying to  say as you have not directly said at all what his downside was until donke mand some interpretation of what you said i figured it out dont blame me for not trying to read as i just couldnt figure out what the heck you were saying tbh it needed to be more clear in what the hell you were trying to tell me

6 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Every character can use those items. They aren't Wolfgang-exclusive.

I am absolutely convinced you refuse read anything I say at all. I have repeated myself so many times and you just ignore my explanations, then proceed to claim that I have explained nothing. I'm not writing another paragraph for you to ignore yet again. 

Sorry, but I can barely understand that paragraph. None of that has to do with anything regardless, what is even your point here?


In case you actually decide to start reading posts in their entirety, here's my most recent explanation of Wilson's downside:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

That's the same artificial lag suggestion that OP is suggesting. It's annoying and unnecessary. If you want to nerf Wolfgang's DPS, then nerf his damage multiplier instead of adding more inconsistencies.

have you ever fought with a beefalo before?  it actually has a slower attack speed than a character on the ground there is no artificial lag at all

 

ive already got what you think wilsons downside is  and i think you are wrong just cause he is a basic character with nothing to note doesn't mean that is his downside thats what makes wilson as he is  just as every other character has their quirks thats what makes him him

Edited by EsaiXD

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4 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

That is actually really bad as darts even take the damage reduction all wendy needs is a ham bat and she is good to go

The forum glitched I know my point is that the damage for a dart is one hundred making her reduction pointless since she has Abigail. 

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