rebalance [Winnie] Sudura's Character (and few items) Rebalance Thread (inc. SW characters.)

[Sudura2017]

Wilson - No change needed.

Willow - Total revamp needed. 

Spoiler

Willow, the Firestarter

"Everything is prettier when it burns." --paraphrased, lol

*Carries a sweet lighter and a teddy, Bernie. --Infinite, like in DS - Bernie distracts Shadows, as he does currently in DST.

*Loves the sight of flames. --Flames will increase her sanity in close proximity.

*Freezes while insane --Same as always in DST

 

--Immune to fire damage.

 

**NEEDS WORK**

 

Wolfgang - No changes needed

Wendy - No changes needed

WX-78 - Minor changes needed

Spoiler

WX would now drop all gears on death that he has eaten, not just a few. 

**MIGHT UPDATE**

Wickerbottom - No changes needed

Woodie - Total revamp needed

Spoiler

Woodie, the Accursed --Changed to better reflect how he is in Don't Starve Together.

"**will update with quote**"

*Has a lovely axe --Lucy - No real changes here.

*And a terrible curse --Werewolf curse. Works like DS instead of DST.

*Able to delay the inevitable --A new item, Beaver Shot - Delays the Full Moon transformation to the next New Moon

Recipe: 1 Booster Shot, 3 Beard Hair, 2 Rot

Wes - OP character, could use some nerfs.

Maxwell - Minor changes needed

Spoiler

Shadow Duelists will no longer kite enemies, instead tanking. They deal 100% to players instead of 50% as Maxwell himself does.

Duelists now spawn with 10% defence can be upgraded for 10% defence per nightmare fuel, capping at 90% after 8 upgrades.

Webber - No changes needed.

Wigfrid - No changes needed (in RoG/AnR)

Walani - Total revamp needed

Spoiler

Walani, the Chilled --Reflects her new perks a little better.

"Where's the Guac?"

*Sensitive to the cold --60 natural insulation to Summer, opposite in Winter.

*Can surf on land, with some help -- Can lasso No Eye Deer with Antlers/Depths Worms while on the Surfboard on land. (New Lasso - see Items)

*Eats more than her fair share --33% more hunger drain

 

Warly - Major changes needed

Spoiler

Warly, the Chef

"A little bit of spice..."

*Has a portable crockpot, and a Chef Pack --Takes 5 seconds longer to cook than a Crockpot. - 6 slot insulated backpack.

*Loves to have a Varied Diet, hates eating the same food too many times! --See varied diet

*Refuses to eat food that is not cooked into a meal --All food must be made into a Crockpot Meal or Warly will refuse to eat it. A unique spin on the downside of Winnie and Wigfrid.

 

Varied Diet:

If Warly eats the same food more than once in a time-span of 5 days (counting how many times it's been eaten in the past 10 days, not counting up past 10 - For example, eating Meatballs, then again in 4 days, then 4 days, won't count as two times before.) he will get the following disadvantages:

Eaten once before: 0.95 x Food's Stats (this one isn't really much, because I didn't want to ruin some recipes which you basically NEED to eat fairly often.)

Eaten twice before: 0.85 x Food's Stats

Eaten thrice before: 0.7 x Food's Stats

Eaten four or more times before: 0.5 x Food's Stats

 

This encourages a varied diet, as the perk states.

 

Warly also gets a 5% bonus to the stats of food for eating foods that cover a food group (which they will be tagged with), and work only once every 5 days (after it's done, can't be done again for five days.)

All food groups:

Meat - Things like Meat, Morsels. (Monster Meat, Long Pig and Leafy Meat is TECHNICALLY meat, but it won't give a bonus.)

Fish - Things like... Fish. With SW: Tropical Fish, Dogfish, etc.

Fruit - Things like Berries, Pumpkins

Vegetable - Things like Carrots, Eggplants

Dairy - Goat, Cow, Deer and Koalefant Milk. Also butter.

Fats/Sugars - Coconut, Coco Butter (new item) and Butter.

 

Using SW fish, it is possible for a recipe to come to a full bonus of 30%, though it'd probably just be Wet Goop. Don't try this at home.

Theoretically, the maximum bonus is:

Fish that also has Meat properties, for example... Dogfish - 10%

Dairy that also has Fats/Sugars properties, for example... Butter - 10%

Vegetable, for example Eggplant - 5%

Fruit, for example Berry - 5%

Cooking meals in a crockpot will give the finished meal tags of the ingredients - This means you don't specifically have to make a Vegetable dish, etc. For ex. Honey Roasted Ham: 2 Meat, 1 Honey, 1 Eggplant: Gives a serving of Meat, Fats/Sugars & Vegetables

 

Could probably use some changes!

Wilbur - Revamp needed

Spoiler

Wilbur, the Monkey King

"Ooh ooh?"

*Runs all the time, but uses more energy -- Always runs, 20% more hunger drain when running.

*Can befriend Splumonkeys - Can befriend Splumonkeys with Cave Bananas. Gather stuff and throw it to you. 

*Loves bananas - Cave Bananas, Banana Popsicles all give 15 sanity extra.

Woodlegs - Total revamp needed

Spoiler

Woodlegs, the Pirate Captain

"Landlubbers!"

*Has a companion, Wolly - Wolly will comment on how close you are to Gems, Gold, or Buried Treasure.

*Can build a Coconut Gun --Mountable to Beefalo or low-tier Stone walls (the tier just above broken.)

*Has a peg leg --15% slower on foot

 

*NEEDS CHANGES*

Winona (leaked in AnR)

Spoiler

Winona, the ???

"???"

*Has her own Sewing Tape --This can repair armour.

*Gets one free hit from Charlie --Charlie's Sister, so can survive one.

*???

Winnie (AnR/post-ANR)

Spoiler

Winnie, the Shepherdess

"All three accounted for!"

*Has a Shepherd's Staff and Bucket --Right click an Animal to herd their herd. Literally just allows you to move them all to your farm. Milk Volt Goats with a bucket

Can herd:

Spoiler

 

Koalefant

Beefalo

No Eye Deer

Volt Goat

Domesticated Depths Worms

 

*Natural affinity with animals --Beefalo Domestication is half as difficult - Volt Goats and No Eye Deer will not run

*Pacifist, refuses to eat animals. --Vegetarian, not Vegan - Hitting an animal will do minus half the damage you do. For example, 74 damage would take away 37 sanity.

*Has a knack for farming --50% chance to get two of a grown item from a farm. 10% for Three, 40% for One

 

Items

Spoiler

Insulated Pack

Spoiler

Increased to Eight slots

Naturally cools food

If Ice is placed in, it won't melt.

If Ice is placed in with a Thermal Stone, it'll chill the stone.

Palm Tree

Spoiler

Added to the Antlion Desert

Amount of coconuts visually shows what you'll actually get.

Palm Leaves don't drop.

Coffee Plant

Spoiler

Added to the Dragonfly Desert, around the arena.

They will be harvestable there directly, or can be transplanted onto Barren Turf

They will require fertilisation to be harvestable.

Treasure

Spoiler

Buried Treasure. Visually it looks like a grave without a headstone.

Mining it will make a Chest spawn

Inside will be gems, gold and other rare items.

Fairly rare spawn over natural world regrowth

Wolly (with Woodlegs) will lead him to nearby treasure.

Rare chance for a locked Ornate Chest. Will require a random Deer Antler. More loot in these.

Coffee

Spoiler

If not groggy:
Works the same as SW

If groggy:
Wakes you right back up, including with Woodie's delayed transformation.

If on coffee & put to sleep:
Won't fall asleep, will undo effects of Coffee.

 

Coffee can now be made with any kind of Milk or Honey.

Lasso

Spoiler

3x Rope

Allows you to lasso No Eye Deer (providing they have Antlers) or Depths Worms - Also allows you to leash Domesticated Beefalo (non-domesticated will throw it off and become hostile.)

In PVP, you can lasso players. In PVE you can, provided you're on a surfboard.

Lasso-ing players/animals allows you to drag them at a slow speed, or attach them to Fences. Players can break out by struggling like in the Ewecus Mucus

If lasso-ing on Walani's Surfboard, you may drag yourself behind a player, No Eye Deer (with Antlers) or Depths Worm. May also lasso onto a domesticated Beefalo's saddle.

Depths Worms will attack on dismount, No Eye Deer will run a considerable distance. (non-domesticated)

Domesticated Depths Worms & No Eye Deer

Spoiler

Domesticating a Depths Worm:

Feed it different types of meats and animal items for 5 days and keep it's hunger above 25% (max hunger: 200)

The Glow Berry turns Red and glows while moving, giving off enough light to not be attacked while riding.

It can now be herded

It will no longer attack you, even after riding.

 

Domesticating a No Eye Deer:

Feed it different types of Fruit and Vegetables for 5 days and keep it's hunger above 10% (max hunger: 75)

It will start to grow a new type of Antler that can not break off.

It will no longer run from you, even after riding.

Bucket

Spoiler

The Bucket is a new item that can be used to milk Beefalo, No Eye Deer, Koalefants or Volt Goats without killing them.

Unlike the Razor, it must be done when they are fully awake.

 

They can only be milked once per 5 days, giving a bucket full.

 

Bucket of Milk must be converted down to Bottles if you wish to use it in the Crock Pot.

Glass Bottle

Spoiler

Glass Bottles are made from 4 Sand in a Chiminea. 

Part of the Pottery tab

You get two bottles for every craft.

A bucket of Milk can be split into two Glass Bottles of Milk

Pottery Tab

Spoiler

Replaces the Sculpt Tab.

Glass items are made in the Chiminea

Marble and Stone items are made on the Sculptor's Wheel

Contents:

Pawn Statue

Rook Statue

Knight Statue

Bishop Statue

Kingly Statue

Queenly Statue

Glass Bottle

Glass Spike

Glass Castle

Chiminea

Spoiler

The Chiminea is used to make Glass items, such as Castles or Bottles.

 

Making an item will require the Chiminea to be lit (fueled, just like a fire pit)

 

Current items:
Glass Bottle

Glass Spike

Glass Castle

 

 

[Sudura2017]

I'll change how Coffee Plants work tomorrow, so Warly isn't crippled

[Sinister_Fang]

14 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

Shadow Duelists will no longer kite enemies, instead tanking.

This fixes absolutely nothing. As long as a duelist can be one shot by almost everything, they'll remain useless.

Also, what's the point in discussing balance about characters that don't exist?

[Histekia]

I would also like the Palm trees in the antlion dessert, they would fit very good I think, but then again, I would like, that coconuts drop only at summer from these trees and not in other seasons, so its not so easy to get them

[Sudura2017]

57 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

This fixes absolutely nothing. As long as a duelist can be one shot by almost everything, they'll remain useless.

Also, what's the point in discussing balance about characters that don't exist?

Winnie is the only one I'm discussing that does not exist.

Winona is just a matter-of-fact "This is Winona."

 

I only added Winnie as she works great in tandem with the rebalanced SW characters.

[Sinister_Fang]

11 minutes ago, Sudura2017 said:

Winnie is the only one I'm discussing that does not exist.

Winona is just a matter-of-fact "This is Winona."

Well right now, Winona also does not exist. It wouldn't be the first time we saw some assets for a new character and not get them. And there's no concrete proof her tape works on armor. It could just be a glorified sewing kit. But my point is we know very little about her from a gameplay perspective.

[Sudura2017]

Just now, Sinister_Fang said:

Well right now, Winona also does not exist. It wouldn't be the first time we saw some assets for a new character and not get them. And there's no concrete proof her tape works on armor. It could just be a glorified sewing kit. But my point is we know very little about her from a gameplay perspective.

Wigfrid's quotes literally say it repairs her armor, and a glorified sewing kit would be pointless. There's no point going into semantics. Winona is very likely to happen due to her links to the current story arc & Voxola + the fact her name is still in Sounds, and she has a completed speech file. It's just there to future-proof the thread.

[Donke60]

19 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

Warly - Major changes needed

Warly doesn't really need changes though his only real cripple is sanity and with DS instant sleep change it doesnt really matter unless you go into Caves where becomes a problem for long periods of time. However the only thing needed for him in DST would be when he sleeps his hunger drain is changed to be less server because it is a problem with DST on how sleeping works.and giving him easier access to sanity foods sense most sanity foods are locked by honey or farms but all this really does is just require more time. But these are the only things I see as a Warly problem.

[Sudura2017]

26 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

Warly doesn't really need changes though his only real cripple is sanity and with DS instant sleep change it doesnt really matter unless you go into Caves where becomes a problem for long periods of time. However the only thing needed for him in DST would be when he sleeps his hunger drain is changed to be less server because it is a problem with DST on how sleeping works.and giving him easier access to sanity foods sense most sanity foods are locked by honey or farms but all this really does is just require more time. But these are the only things I see as a Warly problem.

Warly in SW is trash, at the moment. Literally everybody agrees on this, too. He used to be decent until they nerfed him to worse than Wes. This takes his current "downside" and makes it actually interesting to deal with, as well as requiring Farms, Beeboxes or even Ranches for animals.

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

Warly in SW is trash, at the moment. Literally everybody agrees on this, too. He used to be decent until they nerfed him to worse than Wes

So have you played him in RoG or just SW cause the SW world itself has a lot of problems.

 

3 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

This takes his current "downside" and makes it actually interesting to deal with, as well as requiring Farms, Beeboxes or even Ranches for animals.

It's already interesting and you need those farms and beeboxes to make the most out of the crockpot recipes as is. So these changes seem unnecessary Also your changes wouldn't fix his sanity problem he gets in prolonged periods and he already has a timer on how certain foods only become available on certain seasons like getting honey before winter and fish Autumn is just a restock period. and summer is used for flowers for a shirt and some good healing items and getting a siesta for summer.

[Sudura2017]

2 hours ago, Donke60 said:

So have you played him in RoG or just SW cause the SW world itself has a lot of problems.

 

It's already interesting and you need those farms and beeboxes to make the most out of the crockpot recipes as is. So these changes seem unnecessary Also your changes wouldn't fix his sanity problem he gets in prolonged periods and he already has a timer on how certain foods only become available on certain seasons like getting honey before winter and fish Autumn is just a restock period. and summer is used for flowers for a shirt and some good healing items and getting a siesta for summer.

This also encourages ranches, especially by way of Winnie. You do need farms & bee boxes yes, but you'll need them more like this. Rather than Meatballs > Bacon and Eggs > Meatballs it has to be like Fresh Fruit Crepes > Honey Roasted Ham, etc

[Donke60]

9 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

This also encourages ranches, especially by way of Winnie. You do need farms & bee boxes yes, but you'll need them more like this. Rather than Meatballs > Bacon and Eggs > Meatballs it has to be like Fresh Fruit Crepes > Honey Roasted Ham, etc

How much have you played Warly because I can tell you, It rarely goes that well. If at all and you also missed a sanity food

 

9 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

This also encourages ranches,

You mean force, the point where you have too build ranches for animals for one character to be able to play them is upsurd you have to allow wiggle room for the player for them to find fun strats and be themselves and have there own playstyle.

 

9 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

especially by way of Winnie.

Don't care about Winnie what you do for a mod character should have no bearing on actual characters

[Sudura2017]

16 hours ago, Donke60 said:

How much have you played Warly because I can tell you, It rarely goes that well. If at all and you also missed a sanity food

 

You mean force, the point where you have too build ranches for animals for one character to be able to play them is upsurd you have to allow wiggle room for the player for them to find fun strats and be themselves and have there own playstyle.

 

Don't care about Winnie what you do for a mod character should have no bearing on actual characters

Not a mod character, so I've crossed out that point. For these to implemented, Winnie would likely be too. When I mod these rebalances in, Winnie will be part of it. If added officially, Winnie would be great addition.

 

Ranches are not necessary, they are encouraged. Just as normal, you can just go milk the Volt Goats where they are. Ranches save time, and Dairy will be made a lesser requirement when I change him later. 

What they are necessary for is Winnie herself, which is why she can do them so easily.

 

As for the first point, I used to exclusively play Warly in SW until he got nerfed, at which point it's just more trouble than it's worth. This changes that.

 

Feel free to type a reply while I change the Dairy, and maybe consider editing it afterwards?

 

EDIT: I totally changed Warly. What do you think now?

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

As for the first point, I used to exclusively play Warly in SW until he got nerfed, at which point it's just more trouble than it's worth. This changes that.

SW has food balancing issues as having a lot of fish and meat together can make it harder to make to make meatballs or kabobs or other simple foods Also since this is the DST of the forms Warly would be ported into an RoG-esque world so using SW as a basis isn't going to do any good as they are two seprate worlds. 

And I haven't played Warly much until he got nerfed unlike you I didn't find him intersting till he got nerfed. I'm not going to lie playing him the first few times especially in SW made me rage(I even made a post on my feelings) but I came back to it learned him better took him out of SW and have an great time with him. So I honestly ask that you play him in RoG or ask mains of him there other thoughts.

3 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

Ranches are not necessary, they are encouraged. Just as normal, you can just go milk the Volt Goats where they are. Ranches save time, and Dairy will be made a lesser requirement when I change him later. 

Not really you have to know that people will pick him up so unless the character is issued with a Warning which is dum in a mutiplier game for the most part a character has to be forgiving to a certain degree. The more you make Warly in this case make "ranches" to be more effictant  the more you make his chef bag and crockpot useless he might as well just be a fridge.

 

I'm against your changes on the bases of player friendliness. As Warly calls for you knowing a not so familer part of the game to most people which are food values and the crockpot foods. Most players aren't as experinced as you and that shows on which characters are the most played in DST games. For most people if Warly was added this would be the first time people have seen this character.

[Sudura2017]

Just now, Donke60 said:

SW has food balancing issues as having a lot of fish and meat together can make it harder to make to make meatballs or kabobs or other simple foods Also since this is the DST of the forms Warly would be ported into an RoG-esque world so using SW as a basis isn't going to do any good as they are two seprate worlds. 

And I haven't played Warly much until he got nerfed unlike you I didn't find him intersting till he got nerfed. I'm not going to lie playing him the first few times especially in SW made me rage(I even made a post on my feelings) but I came back to it learned him better took him out of SW and have an great time with him. So I honestly ask that you play him in RoG or ask mains of him there other thoughts.

Not really you have to know that people will pick him up so unless the character is issued with a Warning which is dum in a mutiplier game for the most part a character has to be forgiving to a certain degree. The more you make Warly in this case make "ranches" to be more effictant  the more you make his chef bag and crockpot useless he might as well just be a fridge.

 

I'm against your changes on the bases of player friendliness. As Warly calls for you knowing a not so familer part of the game to most people which are food values and the crockpot foods. Most players aren't as experinced as you and that shows on which characters are the most played in DST games. For most people if Warly was added this would be the first time people have seen this character.

Did you re-read after the most recent changes? You didn't quote the edit so it might be worth going back and checking this.

 

Ranches are totally unnecessary now, as is any kind of Dairy or things like that.

 

Is he better/worse now? Anything I could change?

[Sudura2017]

On 4/2/2017 at 3:27 PM, Sinister_Fang said:

This fixes absolutely nothing. As long as a duelist can be one shot by almost everything, they'll remain useless.

Also, what's the point in discussing balance about characters that don't exist?

Alright, I haven't replied to this one yet (I'm not quite sure why myself) but, what would you like to see in a rebalance? Perhaps the sanity cap lowered? A way to armor them? I don't know.

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

Is he better/worse now? Anything I could change

This doesn't address his main problem again this is in a DST subforum so I won't talk about SW

Warly works now because he is rather stable in stats on a normal season as long as your prepared. His bonuses now make "useless" crockpot recipes viable as he can eat the same food normally twice without suffering a negitive(even three times if the normal food is big enough)

Warly however falls about if you are not prepared for a season shift or forgot something vital(ice or honey) or if his sanity drops too quickly to fast. This is a problem if you are in autum with out an umbrella or honey fight boss mobs for too long or go into caves. Where sanity can drain rather quickly. Your changes don't fix anything they make him worse on the account of  food buffs being placed on food groups rather then foods indivually. Warly has no quick way to restore sanity it is only gradual through Sleeping(which is a problem in DST) or foods and hats. That is Warly's main problem keeping him happy can be learned just by rationing his food and knowing what you can make or need to make at the right times.

Your changes don't address what problems Warly actually has and in some cases make them worse.

I would make use of his custom recipes and give him easier recipes for sanity  As there really any good santy recipes till you get a farm,ice or beebox

optional(make warly able to make special recipes with boss loot like coffee but less OP)

 

[Sudura2017]

4 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

This doesn't address his main problem again this is in a DST subforum so I won't talk about SW

Warly works now because he is rather stable in stats on a normal season as long as your prepared. His bonuses now make "useless" crockpot recipes viable as he can eat the same food normally twice without suffering a negitive(even three times if the normal food is big enough)

Warly however falls about if you are not prepared for a season shift or forgot something vital(ice or honey) or if his sanity drops too quickly to fast. This is a problem if you are in autum with out an umbrella or honey fight boss mobs for too long or go into caves. Where sanity can drain rather quickly. Your changes don't fix anything they make him worse on the account of  food buffs being placed on food groups rather then foods indivually. Warly has no quick way to restore sanity it is only gradual through Sleeping(which is a problem in DST) or foods and hats. That is Warly's main problem keeping him happy can be learned just by rationing his food and knowing what you can make or need to make at the right times.

Your changes don't address what problems Warly actually has and in some cases make them worse.

I would make use of his custom recipes and give him easier recipes for sanity  As there really any good santy recipes till you get a farm,ice or beebox

optional(make warly able to make special recipes with boss loot like coffee but less OP)

 

I don't think Sanity falling will be a problem due to food group bonuses especially. However, the Seasonal Shift is a good point, which is why Coco Butter and things like that exist.

Warly doesn't have an increased hunger drain in DST either, unlike SW. I felt that would be too unfair so I removed it. Regardless, as you said, custom recipes for sanity is a good idea. I'll try and think some up, though just to clarify he does not have any custom recipes right now

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

don't think Sanity falling will be a problem due to food group bonuses especially. However, the Seasonal Shift is a good point, which is why Coco Butter and things like that exist.

Well if crockpot sanity foods exist them maybe hard to know 

 

3 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

Warly doesn't have an increased hunger drain in DST either, unlike SW. I felt that would be too unfair so I removed it.

Well taking a mod that ported Warly as is (with the execption making all his crockpot recipes usable in a RoG world) Warly in DST isn't that bad on the accout of World regrowth and juicy berry bushes feeding Warly and keeping him fine is. He is only a problem in DST version of sleeping where the sleep increases his already high hunger drain(somone did some math and without hunger drain Warly unaltered hunger drain would be around 190) But going into caves and fighting raid bosses in DST I still feel would be a problem for Warly.

[Sinister_Fang]

51 minutes ago, Sudura2017 said:

Alright, I haven't replied to this one yet (I'm not quite sure why myself) but, what would you like to see in a rebalance? Perhaps the sanity cap lowered? A way to armor them? I don't know.

Personally, I think their damage and sanity cost is fine as is. I find that the real problem with duelists is that almost everything can kill them in just a hit or two. So any buffs that effect them offensively won't really matter much. So they'd need some kind of defensive buff. There's been a lot of ideas on this and I think I'd be happy with pretty much any of them. Better kiting AI, mimicking Maxwell's movements, equipping armor to them, enemies not targeting duelists (instead they'd target Maxwell)... just anything that could improve their survivability.

And one minor tweak I'd like to see for puppets (or just followers in general) is for them to match the player's speed so they can keep up better when using a cane or roads.

[Sudura2017]

1 minute ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Personally, I think their damage and sanity cost is fine as is. I find that the real problem with duelists is that almost everything can kill them in just a hit or two. So any buffs that effect them offensively won't really matter much. So they'd need some kind of defensive buff. There's been a lot of ideas on this and I think I'd be happy with pretty much any of them. Better kiting AI, mimicking Maxwell's movements, equipping armor to them, enemies not targeting duelists (instead they'd target Maxwell)... just anything that could improve their survivability.

And one minor tweak I'd like to see for puppets (or just followers in general) is for them to match the player's speed so they can keep up better when using a cane or roads.

Hm, perhaps upgrading them with NM fuel akin to WX and gears

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Personally, I think their damage and sanity cost is fine as is. I find that the real problem with duelists is that almost everything can kill them in just a hit or two. So any buffs that effect them offensively won't really matter much. So they'd need some kind of defensive buff. There's been a lot of ideas on this and I think I'd be happy with pretty much any of them. Better kiting AI, mimicking Maxwell's movements, equipping armor to them, enemies not targeting duelists (instead they'd target Maxwell)... just anything that could improve their survivability.

And one minor tweak I'd like to see for puppets (or just followers in general) is for them to match the player's speed so they can keep up better when using a cane or roads.

I think I rather give them armor but make it limted I rather not have them use nightmare fuel for maxwell is already so dependent on it.

I htink they should match you on roads but not when you have a can because that could make them unfairly fast.

[Sudura2017]

1 minute ago, Donke60 said:

I think I rather give them armor but make it limted I rather not have them use nightmare fuel for maxwell is already so dependent on it.

I htink they should match you on roads but not when you have a can because that could make them unfairly fast.

I changed it so they spawn with 10% defence which can be upgraded by 10% for every nightmare fuel, capping at 90%

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, Sudura2017 said:

I changed it so they spawn with 10% defence which can be upgraded by 10% for every nightmare fuel, capping at 90%

I still don't think thats good on the fact that it would be permnt and maybe a little high since its' easy for maxwell to stay insane I rather have the armor on the fact that it's something different to collect and it breaks which could make fights still dangerous. Still I don't play maxwell if at all so I rather hear @Sinister_Fang's thoughts.

[Sinister_Fang]

1 minute ago, Donke60 said:

I still don't think thats good on the fact that it would be permnt and maybe a little high since its' easy for maxwell to stay insane I rather have the armor on the fact that it's something different to collect and it breaks which could make fights still dangerous. Still I don't play maxwell if at all so I rather hear @Sinister_Fang's thoughts.

Well it is fairly costly (10 fuel total, 2 for creation and 8 upgrades). I'd say fuel used for upgrades shouldn't be returned when dismissed to counter the permanent armor. Although their health regen would need to be reduced. I forget exactly what it was, but I remember it being fairly fast.

If the permanency of the armor is a problem, then how about a temporary boost? Duelists start with a natural 30% and you can add 1 fuel for an additional 30% boost for a day or two (and this could be done twice up to a total of 90%). Of course there would need to be some kind of visual indication of when the duelist was boosted once and twice so you know when the effect wore off.

This upgrade idea could also apply to worker puppets as well. Except instead of increasing their defense it would increase their work speed. It's not really necessary as they're mostly fine on their own, but it would just make the upgrading puppets mechanic more universal.