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Things that should really happen during the final update of ANR (a few things)


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As I've hinted from before, I'll be posting a large list, a consistent one, don't worry, of various problems that I and I know some other player have about the game. This list will be posted after ANR is finished. However, during the updates, there are a few things that really bother me and some, or perhaps many others that should really be addressed now since devs still have a focus on ANR and the ruins content. That said, here are these few things:

Tl;dr: didn't think I'd need one, but anyway:

* lazy forager needs nm fuel refuelability

* bee queen crown needs repairing via beeswax as a possibility as well as bee hives (and perhaps killer bee hives too, for continued challenge!) re-spawning for it to be reliable as an armour

* ruins loot from ornate chests, large ornate chest needs to be better (more ancient gems with higher RNG, thulecite armoury and weaponry instead of crappy football helmets, log suits and spears)

* ruins clockworks should have at least 1 gear guaranteed for loot;

* earthquakes should drop ancient gems in ruins sometimes, if not thulecite fragments as well;

* dragonfly should spawn only in Summer, drop more gem loot (x2), drop extra scales only if beaten enough when enraged with lavae losing health instead of having a counter for being killed

* there should be an armour that requires a shroom skin to craft but rots over time instead of losing durab when hit (perhaps 70% protection with it rotting in 10 days or so).

Man... Even the tl;dr turned out to be quite long :~

* The lazy forager...

Spoiler

Should be refuelable via the nightmare fuel - Maxwell himself said when examining the skeleton armour: "it craves fuel, JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE". While some things might be a bit too game-breaky with nightmare fuel being given to for refuelability (although, may be not... Depends how you do it, I mean, if nm fuel refueled only 1% of durab for the green staff and amulet as well as the lazy explorer, would it be that game breaking? It would be a little more convenient, sure, although you'd need to farm a lot, A LOT of nm fuel for these things), for the lazy forager, considering you've given us things that late-game make things more convenient, it would be nice if the Lazy Forager got the refuelability that the magilluminessence got as well. It will make getting things surrounded by tentacles easier, make it worth the bother for when you chop down trees (hell, I could be chopping and picking at the same time!). And I know many players would love this too. It just gets really time-consuming and boring to have to pick all the stuff you've got dropped from various farming methods. Plus, having an item that looks more like a general convenience type one, but being only useful for this one specific thing (cave holes) just doesn't show for great game design. I mean, look at how far the weather pain can actually be used; Plenty of feathers, some-what decent amount of gears, no goat horns... :(

* Bee queen crown, Bee queen herself and Bee hives (killer bee hives too?)

Spoiler

This is one of those things where I feel like, and I know some of my online friends do too where "well, if you can't rely on it via normal methods, might as well use an exploit" and I honestly hate that and needing to do that to have more fun in the game. The pig skin farm is another sad example of this. Basically, using wickerbottom-summoned tentacles to do the dirty bee queen killing work for you to get the crown is an issue here, but who cares if you can get crowns all the time that in no way can be repaired? I'd suggest being able to repair them via bees wax (giving it 50% durab back), BUT, you would need to make bee hives part of the world regen, because the only way to get honey combs for bees wax renewably, hurr hurr, is by killing the bee queen... Or perhaps have spawn points similar to that of the giant bee hive when the bee queen emerges. That spawn point without the hive looks amazing btw :) oh, and, having wasp/killer bee hives respawn as well this way would be nice >:p

The bee queen herself, however... I really have no clue in terms of the tentacles... May be the tentacles shouldn't emerge when she's nearby? Since she's kind of flying and all? Same could go for grumble bees, bees, dragonfly, glommer... Well, I'm getting ahead of myself now...

* Ruins loot...

Spoiler

This includes ornate chests, large ornate chests, cave holes, possibly earthquakes and may be the ruins clockworks. The game is multiplayer, yet, whole things have become tougher, loot for things in ruins has not changed at all. The amount of spears, log suits and football helmets nobody wants that are found in ornate chests is astounding. I would suggest you replace those via the actual ruins weaponry and armoury (so thulecite clubs, thulecite suits and thulecite crowns). Additionally, the gems and thulecite itself found in these is very miniscule or none at all. I went through all the ornate chests today, getting zero of any of the ruins gems (that's yellow, green and orange for clarification). For the guardian, you are wasting away more armour and weaponry than you're getting back most of the time. Only twice have I found to have 6 green gems in that large ornate chest, all the other 4 or 5 times it's been nothing but kaput; little thulecite, some nm fuel and some other crappy item. I would suggest that the guardian should drop at least 15 of each ruins gem EVERY TIME as well as a stack or two of thulecite, some nightmare fuel and possibly some other thulecite gear. Essentially, every slot for the large ornate chest should be filled upon kill for it to be very good loot. For the small ornate chests, 2 - 4 or so ruins gems with a higher chance of being there might be alright. The clockworks don't even have a guaranteed one gear drop, which kinda blows for the flingo amount and still makes it kind of necessary to keep gears away from newbie WX players. The earthquakes... I mean, why don't  they drop thulecite fragments or ancient gems? Perhaps the fragments might have something to do with the lore, but gems?  In the ruins? Cmon! Either way, up to Klei, but more better loot should really drop from the aforementioned.

* Dragonfly and lavae

Spoiler

The Ant lion is now technically the summer boss, although Dragonfly honestly would fit it better. And what's more is that it would be awesomly more difficult to fight her during summer, yet you have no real incentive to do so. If she spawned in only during summer, but had better loot as a counter for not being able to beat her every 20 days, it would make the fight much more interesting for sure, with the added heat as something to keep an eye on during the fight. Another two problems are that the scales are way too easy to mass-farm and there is no incentive to letting her stay enraged, so players use water balloons or pan flute to get her out of it. What could be done is making it so that she can stay enraged while asleep to counter that and have the scales drop from her only if enough damage is dealt to her during the enragement, or something along the lines. And finally, the lavae... Them dying was a nice addition, though it's a bit rough around the edges. Enraging is already gotten rid of, so de-incentivising the player to kill the lavae as well, idk... Perhaps if their health went down gradually, so that hitting them would have a point, enabling players to enrage dragonfly faster, which could enable players to get more scales during the fight from beating her since you'll be getting her to enrage more times. Now THAT would be just awesome!

* Craftables that toadstool enables you to obtain

Spoiler

The only boss who's special loot is just... Well... Has nothing that relates to enhancing combat at all. Well, that's alright, but the stuff that he does drop/enable you to craft is kind of... meh. For me personally, the shroom hats don't seem that useful for the mushroom farming since they themselves consume mushrooms anyway and the lights... Not too useful imho. Perhaps if with the shroom skin you could craft an armour equivalent of ham bat, then you would be talking! An armour that has like 70% damage absorption but instead of having health by itself, it would rot over time, perhaps in like 10 days. With other armours stacked, like a thulecite crown, they could just lose half the amount of durab than normal, like with all other armours.

If you thought this was long... The upcoming list will be even longer :)

This list tried to include things that would be relatively easy to do via code, or at least in theory, so as not to keep the devs away from finishing ANR too much, so I didn't include things like overhauling how Bee Queen gets triggered, making her more like a spider queen and tree guard type of a boss and so forth, for now. These might technically be suggestions, although the suggestions section won't get as much attention and this is kind of pushing more things that have already been mentioned and that I know for most quite a few people here and elsewhere would tend to agree on.

I'd like to hear what the community has to say as well. Agree, disagree with points layed out here? If you disagree, how would you like the points of focus to be different instead?

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Oh finally, I can agree with you. (For the most part)

1: Yes

1: Definitely

3: :love_heart: ABSOLUTELY!!! :love_heart:

4: Sorta. maybe 1.5x the gems and leave the scales bit out, you'll usually end up with more than enough from taking them/klaus down enough times as the scales have limited use (Salad furnace, build-a-willow armor, antiburn box, and the "literally useless" flooring)

5: I'd like to note I'm not entire dismissive of your idea here, but personally, I like how toadstool's loot is more "passive" than the recent boss' loot (Bee queen crown armor, shadow shield armor) I think that mayhaps it could make a buffed version of the bucket o' poop, for instance it could be refillable with more poop and just keep going and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming  ᵃᶰᵈ ᵗʰᵉʸ ᵈᵒᶰ'ᵗ ˢᵗᵒᵖ ᶜᵒᵐᶦᶰᵍ

But either way once you've gotten enough blueprints and lamps for everyone all around, shroomskin is pretty pointless as well so any new use for it would be nice. Overall, good ideas!

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1. For sure, they made it have a nice use for the cave holes in the ruins, but it is still quite worthless

2. No, the point wasn't to be used for armor and we don't want noobs wasting all honeycombs in the map on it

3. Less rng and better loot would be awesome

4. No, you get 30 gears usually just from hammering the broken clockworks and killing the rooks and knight which always drop 1 anyways and bishops never drop them.

5. No, since dragonfly would be useless to kill besides getting a few scaled furnaces unless they were extremely rare, which we don't need more rng for drops... farming marble from earthquakes was bad enough in ds.

6. Making ruins gems less accessible and more reliant on earthquake rng is bad and dragonfly only in summer... just terrible, I'd like to use my bunnymen method to kill dragonfly solo and having 6 flingos to make sure everything doesn't burn and 1 kill per 70 day completly limits using thulecite helms on the regular, unless you want to live underground and rely on rng earthquakes.

7. This idea I like a bit and with more tweaks and such it would be nice to have a ham bat esk armor piece from toad!

Some good ideas, but many of these are unnecessary and are counter intuitive especially with the ruins resetting feature

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22 minutes ago, JJburner said:

2. No, the point wasn't to be used for armor and we don't want noobs wasting all honeycombs in the map on it

3. Less rng and better loot would be awesome

4. No, you get 30 gears usually just from hammering the broken clockworks and killing the rooks and knight which always drop 1 anyways and bishops never drop them.

5. No, since dragonfly would be useless to kill besides getting a few scaled furnaces unless they were extremely rare, which we don't need more rng for drops... farming marble from earthquakes was bad enough in ds.

6. Making ruins gems less accessible and more reliant on earthquake rng is bad and dragonfly only in summer... just terrible, I'd like to use my bunnymen method to kill dragonfly solo and having 6 flingos to make sure everything doesn't burn and 1 kill per 70 day completly limits using thulecite helms on the regular, unless you want to live underground and rely on rng earthquakes.

7. This idea I like a bit and with more tweaks and such it would be nice to have a ham bat esk armor piece from toad!

Some good ideas, but many of these are unnecessary and are counter intuitive especially with the ruins resetting feature

2) Then why is it an armour in the first place? I feel like it's a bit of a change from the norm, so, the tam-o-shanter is a hat that provides its traits, where as the crown is an armour, so its utility being something that you can actually use well, like in the cases of fighting things that have insanity aura, this would be quite neat. Newbs would probably rarely grt their hands on these crowns in the first place and even if they do, I did suggest the hives to respawn and idk why you'd be against that.

3) By rng, I mean much higher chance to get certain gems. So, an example of an RNG I can give is tentacle spike having 50% chance drop from a tentacle. The gems from ornate chests, in this case, normally could perhaps have 25% chance for each ancient gem and another 25% for nothing. May be, idk how well the odds could make things turn out exactly.

4) Emm... The broken clockworks don't actually respawn upon ruins reset, so this goes out the window, m8. Plus, if we are to utilise the clockworks for befriending them, which costs 3 gears each, in the future if they get reworked, then there will be a high need for gears in any case. Also, newbs, man, newbs!

5) What? The whole point was incentivising to kill her more and incentivising players to let her enrage for extra stuff. Since you get gems and a rare blueprint, a rather good one too, mind you, why wouldn't you go for the kill?

6) You're taking all the points as if it's one or the other in the game... If ruins loot is highly improved, and Dragonfly herself drops more gems, then all will be hay, my friend. And where have I mentioned rng for drops here? Oh, the earthquakes! I've found that I can get quite a few of the blue, red and some purple gems from earthquakes too later on in the game, so if those are simply replaced for earthquakes in the ruins, then they'd be something extra to enable you to get a little more ancient stuff :)

 

Ruins doesn't provide enough loot for multiple players to be able to use them well. For one player, sure, but not for something like 6 or more. Which sucks.

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7 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

2) Then why is it an armour in the first place? I feel like it's a bit of a change from the norm, so, the tam-o-shanter is a hat that provides its traits, where as the crown is an armour, so its utility being something that you can actually use well, like in the cases of fighting things that have insanity aura, this would be quite neat. Newbs would probably rarely grt their hands on these crowns in the first place and even if they do, I did suggest the hives to respawn and idk why you'd be against that.

3) By rng, I mean much higher chance to get certain gems. So, an example of an RNG I can give is tentacle spike having 50% chance drop from a tentacle. The gems from ornate chests, in this case, normally could perhaps have 25% chance for each ancient gem and another 25% for nothing. May be, idk how well the odds could make things turn out exactly.

4) Emm... The broken clockworks don't actually respawn upon ruins reset, so this goes out the window, m8. Plus, if we are to utilise the clockworks for befriending them, which costs 3 gears each, in the future if they get reworked, then there will be a high need for gears in any case. Also, newbs, man, newbs!

5) What? The whole point was incentivising to kill her more and incentivising players to let her enrage for extra stuff. Since you get gems and a rare blueprint, a rather good one too, mind you, why wouldn't you go for the kill?

6) You're taking all the points as if it's one or the other in the game... If ruins loot is highly improved, and Dragonfly herself drops more gems, then all will be hay, my friend. And where have I mentioned rng for drops here? Oh, the earthquakes! I've found that I can get quite a few of the blue, red and some purple gems from earthquakes too later on in the game, so if those are simply replaced for earthquakes in the ruins, then they'd be something extra to enable you to get a little more ancient stuff :)

 

Ruins doesn't provide enough loot for multiple players to be able to use them well. For one player, sure, but not for something like 6 or more. Which sucks.

2. It's armor, since if you are using it for deerclops or some other sanity nuking monster you don't get 2 shot. And if the angry bee nests respawned no-one would ever kill queen bee, not worth jelly beans since you'd be able to repair hat.

3. I agree, this is what I meant

4. They don't? Okay, well still how many gears do you really need? 4 for iceboxes, and 4 flingos if you make a summer base and if you really need more it's just better to do it underground at that point. If noobs use them for ice boxes, you get 100% return from hammering -1 gold. If noobs use it for flingos, you only lose 1 more when hammering. If you run out of gears just go to the desert, definetly more fun than hoping for rng earth quakes. If you don't like the idea of using rng ways to get gears. Just dupe gears with deconstruct and constructing ice flingo-matics!

5. Same problem with klaus enraging idea, you just wait until shes at 2 shot, let her enrage, and blow dart and easy more loot.

6. No point of killing dragonfly if you can just get gems from earthquakes now, but better loot from the ornate chests I believe was 100% better than earthquakes gems and waiting 3.5x as longer to kill dragonfly.

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35 minutes ago, JJburner said:

2. It's armor, since if you are using it for deerclops or some other sanity nuking monster you don't get 2 shot. And if the angry bee nests respawned no-one would ever kill queen bee, not worth jelly beans since you'd be able to repair hat.

3. I agree, this is what I meant

4. They don't? Okay, well still how many gears do you really need? 4 for iceboxes, and 4 flingos if you make a summer base and if you really need more it's just better to do it underground at that point. If noobs use them for ice boxes, you get 100% return from hammering -1 gold. If noobs use it for flingos, you only lose 1 more when hammering. If you run out of gears just go to the desert, definetly more fun than hoping for rng earth quakes. If you don't like the idea of using rng ways to get gears. Just dupe gears with deconstruct and constructing ice flingo-matics!

5. Same problem with klaus enraging idea, you just wait until shes at 2 shot, let her enrage, and blow dart and easy more loot.

6. No point of killing dragonfly if you can just get gems from earthquakes now, but better loot from the ornate chests I believe was 100% better than earthquakes gems and waiting 3.5x as longer to kill dragonfly.

2) you need to kill the queen to get the armour in the first place and you get blueprints for bundle wraps too. Royal jelly is useful, fight me :p

4) Re-read what I wrote, especially the part about REPAIRING the clockworks. And by newbs, I meant newbie WX players gobbling them up like they're everywhere at all times. And no, iy's not fun picking tumble weeds for 5 days straight, at least not for me and it's only 1% chance, so 1 in 33.3 weeds picked (because you get 3 items per tumbleweed).

5) What? Do you know how Dragonfly even enrages? I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to imply here... Every TIME she enrages, then if you deal enough damage you get an extra scale, so you'd want to get her enraged as many times as possible before killing her in the end. You could let her despawn to get more, but who would really waste their time and effort for going through her spawning lavae, then trying to beat her whilst dodging her when she enrages... Even then, still better than what we have now. Or, she could also despawn and take a while to respawn if she had enraged during the last fight at least once, or something along the lines.

6) Scaled furnace blueprint. Nuff said. There's no incentive to killing her now either, since you can get gems by regenning ruins, so, this would have no real impact.

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4 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

2) you need to kill the queen to get the armour in the first place and you get blueprints for bundle wraps too. Royal jelly is useful, fight me :p

4) Re-read what I wrote, especially the part about REPAIRING the clockworks. And by newbs, I meant newbie WX players gobbling them up like they're everywhere at all times. And no, iy's not fun picking tumble weeds for 5 days straight, at least not for me and it's only 1% chance, so 1 in 33.3 weeds picked (because you get 3 items per tumbleweed).

5) What? Do you know how Dragonfly even enrages? I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to imply here... Every TIME she enrages, then if you deal enough damage you get an extra scale, so you'd want to get her enraged as many times as possible before killing her in the end. You could let her despawn to get more, but who would really waste their time and effort for going through her spawning lavae, then trying to beat her whilst dodging her when she enrages... Even then, still better than what we have now. Or, she could also despawn and take a while to respawn if she had enraged during the last fight at least once, or something along the lines.

6) Scaled furnace blueprint. Nuff said. There's no incentive to killing her now either, since you can get gems by regenning ruins, so, this would have no real impact.

2. You would only kill her until you have enough hats and never again afterwards is what I meant

4. Repairing clockworks will never be useful and if they do, like I said construct and deconstruct flingos for more gears and a noob will never get to your gears if you keep them on you or don't play on public servers

5. Gotcha, but after 2-4 scales they become useless.

6. Like I said in #2 you would only once and never again plus killing her is much more easier than regening the ruins

 

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10 hours ago, JJburner said:

2. You would only kill her until you have enough hats and never again afterwards is what I meant

4. Repairing clockworks will never be useful and if they do, like I said construct and deconstruct flingos for more gears and a noob will never get to your gears if you keep them on you or don't play on public servers

5. Gotcha, but after 2-4 scales they become useless.

6. Like I said in #2 you would only once and never again plus killing her is much more easier than regening the ruins

 

2) The armour might accidentally break if you're in a bad situation, similarly as do moggles... They quite often break for me... In any case, royal jelly would still be there for the grabs. You prolly wouldn't, but I certainly would go for the fight to get the jelly.

4) They should fix them at some point. Green gems aren't so abundant so that you would use them to renew gears all the time. It's a waste of green gems as it stands. I don't know why you're so keen on keeping gears so rare and unobtainable. Keeping them away from newbies is the exact thing I don't want to do. I already often do with pig skin so that I could make more houses and some other things. Don't want to have my inventory littered with crap as O currently need to do so.

5) I'm starting to not take you seriously. Scaled chests everywhere, the flooring is quite decent if you can be okay with not too great aesthetics of your base, scalemail, if you want that armour, will always require more dragonfly attacking or even killing and so forth. The suggested attacks don't even make the dragonfly any more or any less needed to beat than she is right now, so what even is your problem?

6) So? I'm not really understanding your point. Well, if she's easier than ruins regen and you can get a bit more gems than normal by killing her every summer, why wouldn't you go for the kill?

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9 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

2) The armour might accidentally break if you're in a bad situation, similarly as do moggles... They quite often break for me... In any case, royal jelly would still be there for the grabs. You prolly wouldn't, but I certainly would go for the fight to get the jelly.

4) They should fix them at some point. Green gems aren't so abundant so that you would use them to renew gears all the time. It's a waste of green gems as it stands. I don't know why you're so keen on keeping gears so rare and unobtainable. Keeping them away from newbies is the exact thing I don't want to do. I already often do with pig skin so that I could make more houses and some other things. Don't want to have my inventory littered with crap as O currently need to do so.

5) I'm starting to not take you seriously. Scaled chests everywhere, the flooring is quite decent if you can be okay with not too great aesthetics of your base, scalemail, if you want that armour, will always require more dragonfly attacking or even killing and so forth. The suggested attacks don't even make the dragonfly any more or any less needed to beat than she is right now, so what even is your problem?

6) So? I'm not really understanding your point. Well, if she's easier than ruins regen and you can get a bit more gems than normal by killing her every summer, why wouldn't you go for the kill?

2) Like I said it's not meant for fighting and if you fight with it, go ahead kill her more.

4) Green gems are abundant if you kill dragonfly every 20 days... but if you change her you cannot do that. And since the earthquake change they are abundant

5) Scaled chests, scalemail, and scaled flooring are a waste if you aren't killing dragonfly often and if you are then you are wasting time since you can easily get the gems in the earthquake and killing her for the scales is a waste of materials and time.

6) You just get the gems from earthquakes no point of doing either killing dragonfly or resetting ruins, just a waste of time might as well just live underground.

Most of these things you are adding makes it less intuitive to kill bosses and I say NO, I wanna have a reason to kill dragonfly besides useless scales and I want to kill queen bee for honey combs and the bonus jelly beans

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4 hours ago, JJburner said:

2) Like I said it's not meant for fighting and if you fight with it, go ahead kill her more.

4) Green gems are abundant if you kill dragonfly every 20 days... but if you change her you cannot do that. And since the earthquake change they are abundant

5) Scaled chests, scalemail, and scaled flooring are a waste if you aren't killing dragonfly often and if you are then you are wasting time since you can easily get the gems in the earthquake and killing her for the scales is a waste of materials and time.

6) You just get the gems from earthquakes no point of doing either killing dragonfly or resetting ruins, just a waste of time might as well just live underground.

Most of these things you are adding makes it less intuitive to kill bosses and I say NO, I wanna have a reason to kill dragonfly besides useless scales and I want to kill queen bee for honey combs and the bonus jelly beans

2) I honestly think she should be more like a treeguard or spider queen level boss and there should be more of them in the world, but that's probably something to look into after ANR. I think you might be one of a few pros that don't find jelly beans useful. Trust me, they are, and immensely so!

4) Green gems can still be abundant then if you kill her every Summer instead and just get more gems. So, you can only beat her every 56 - 94 days or so days, so, on average every 70 days. Okay, lets just multiply the amount of gems she drops by the times of days she drops the gems, so, 70/20 = 3.5. 1.5 green gems x3.5 = 4.75. So, 3 guaranteed gems with a 75% chance for the 4th. Less killing Dragonfly, a more awesome fight and the amount of gems you get is more or stays relatively the same. Sounds fair?

5) Nope, currently you can simply whack her enough, she drops a scale, let her despawn and respawn and repeat the process for hoards of scales. If she instead dropped these extra scales if enough damage to her is dealt while she is enraged instead and she could drop extra scales EVERY TIME she's enraged if you deal enough damage within time, then that might balance out the exploit a bit more and give an incentive to enraging her.

6) Perhaps, although if they are a very low chance, who knows. Just as an extra. And I mean, they don't really have a proper origin, where as red, blue and purple gems do.

But... The jelly beans would still be the drop you'd always go for and so far it seemed like you didn't like jelly beans... You're weirdly confusing. Ehh, I'll stop arguing, it feels like I'm talking to a 5-year old...

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1 hour ago, watermelen671 said:

@EuedeAdodooedoe @JJburner

You two ladies need a room? Things are getting quite heated in here, and it's not just from the Dragonfly.

EuedeAdodooedoe: Wait, what? Dragonfly? Run!

JJburner: Run? Why? She's so easy to ki-

Dfly: *Double Pimp Slaps JJburner*

JJburner: *Ded*

And that's why you don't get mama Dfly mad. :3

*JJburner used panflute/using armor whenever in desert, because i'm not dumb, It was super effective * dragonfly fled

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Huu, the ideas in the first post are possibly interesting but this topic seems to have turned into a quote war. Please, let others people have some time to react, it's discouraging seeing this.

 

I agree with lazy forager refuelable, i also agree with earthquake dropping rare gem.

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