Zeklo

Lore, From Ancients to the Fuelweaver [Theory]

50 posts in this topic

About the ancients and their statues: I always imagined (and I still do believe) that the ancients were more human-like and not (that much) insectoid. Of course thery could have been a bit different from other people, but in general still human. 

The statues' form could suggest that they were insectoid, however, couldn't it be possible that these statues aren't the ancients at all, but something else? (Maybe They?) Knowing the mayan, aztec and other old cultures in our real world, civilizations don't always create lifelike pictures, statues, and if we assume that these were made of the ancients' gods (or Them or something similar), than we hardly know anything about how they looked like.

Is there any evidence on who are these statues made of, the ancients or their gods?

(Also on a side note: Maxwell has a quote "Where are their gods now?". Who were their gods, and if not the shadows or They, what happened to them?)

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14 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

About the ancients and their statues: I always imagined (and I still do believe) that the ancients were more human-like and not (that much) insectoid. Of course thery could have been a bit different from other people, but in general still human. 

The statues' form could suggest that they were insectoid, however, couldn't it be possible that these statues aren't the ancients at all, but something else? (Maybe They?) Knowing the mayan, aztec and other old cultures in our real world, civilizations don't always create lifelike pictures, statues, and if we assume that these were made of the ancients' gods (or Them or something similar), than we hardly know anything about how they looked like.

Is there any evidence on who are these statues made of, the ancients or their gods?

(Also on a side note: Maxwell has a quote "Where are their gods now?". Who were their gods, and if not the shadows or They, what happened to them?)

The ancients are likely bug people, as the murals claim. and as written above in the thread there is a quote from Maxwell supporting the statues being in the form of the people.

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Posted (edited)

I watched the video, it's great mate.

Just one thing added from me - I don't really think that Acients were horned beings. I mean, maybe their spirits posses skeletons when you resurrect those by using shadow atriums, but the fossils you find all around just can't be Ancients' skeletons. Why? It takes hella lot of time for actual fossils to create. Lots of stuff must happen to properly create fossils. In real world, archeologists find many relics and other items that used to be created and owned by ancient civilizations, that's right. But they also find bones of those people, not fossils. We can talk about fossils from really far past, before humans were a thing. Trilobites, anomalocaris and crap like this, you know.

In conclusion, bones =/= fossils

Also, where do you see mouth on atrium statues? I really can't see anything like this.

EDIT:
The statues look more like crustaceans, not insects. Just adding this to the pool, since my biological instinct told me to.

Edited by Maslak

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2 hours ago, Maslak said:

Just one thing added from me - I don't really think that Acients were horned beings. I mean, maybe their spirits posses skeletons when you resurrect those by using shadow atriums, but the fossils you find all around just can't be Ancients' skeletons. Why? It takes hella lot of time for actual fossils to create. Lots of stuff must happen to properly create fossils. In real world, archeologists find many relics and other items that used to be created and owned by ancient civilizations, that's right. But they also find bones of those people, not fossils. We can talk about fossils from really far past, before humans were a thing. Trilobites, anomalocaris and crap like this, you know.

In conclusion, bones =/= fossils

EDIT:
The statues look more like crustaceans, not insects. Just adding this to the pool, since my biological instinct told me to.

Would it be too much of a stretch for millions of years to have passed since the ancients' downfall, enough for fossilization to occur? We know that time flows differently in the world of DST, and Maxwell even commented on how "They were dead when I got here." If the ancients turned into the shadow creatures that we see today, who seem to have no bodily needs or age, why couldn't it have been that long?

However, it's odd that these fossils are found nowhere in the ruins, instead found in a completely separate area of the caves.

Also, yeah, the ancients could be crustaceans, too. The statues definitely depict some kind of arthropod. It could still fall within Webber's concept of bug people.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Maslak said:

Also, where do you see mouth on atrium statues? I really can't see anything like this.

VQf47bD.png

Teeth o-o

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15 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

VQf47bD.png

Teeth o-o

Oh... I thought:

Untitled.png

Yellow = teeth

green = gaping hole from when they emerge from their cocoons O__O

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The bottom theeth are hard to see, maybe these are not teeth, the flowing fuel makes it look like there are "stripes", spaces beetween teeth.

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1 minute ago, Asparagus said:

Oh... I thought:

Yellow = teeth

green = gaping hole from when they emerge from their cocoons O__O

Yeah yeah, there's a hole. It's just easier to identify the mouth from teeth in my opinion. 

3 minutes ago, Maslak said:

The bottom theeth are hard to see, maybe these are not teeth, the flowing fuel makes it look like there are "stripes", spaces beetween teeth.

That's possible. I just assumed they were teeth because the other two statues teeth look a lot easier to see, and they share the nightmare fuel pouring out of their eyes and mouths and pooling up onto the ground.

ATpOETp.pngEiUg5Cp.pngkEQ8CoH.png

Actually... now that I look at them all like this. The reoccurring brown substance appears to be were the nightmare fuel is touching the most, and while similar, to the general color of the atrium one, it is different.

yxA8PjW.png

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        MULTIPLAYER_PORTAL = "Always did have a flair for the dramatic...",
        --...Make your jokes...I'll be seeing you soon...

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Can't really see it being related to ancients. Just some Max-Charlie things

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still though " ..I'll be seeing you soon... " after this ancient phenomenon, the gateway will lead somewhere or the spawn portal is the way back out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Man, we can see you put a lot of effort into this, Zek. Thanks for the awesome video!

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12 hours ago, Zeklo said:

The only Weavers I can think of in Greek mythology would be Arachne.

The relevance is somewhat flimsy, but the were also Moirai, who controlled the fates of people (and, in some versions of the myth, also gods). The first one created the thread of life, the second measured it, thus determining the length of person's life, and the third one cut it when the time was due.

Also Ariadne, who gave Theseus a ball of thread so he wouldn't get lost in Minotaur's labyrinth.

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I haven't had time to fully develop my theory and will edit my post when I have but, assuming the ancients became the Shadow creatures, the Shadow Atrium is- in effect, their soul/being/essence of what they are. This would mean when you summon the Fuel Weaver it is not an ancient but rather a host for the Ancients to protect the Atrium. This would also suggest that when you drop below a certain amount of sanity you see the world as it truly is. (Glömmer means forget which is interesting because it gives you sanity) 

On the assumption that you see the 'real' world at low sanity the Shadows (or Ancients) try to kill you to prevent you from getting access to the 'portal' in the Atrium area. This- 'real' world theory is also supported by the requirement of being at low sanity to pass through the Atrium and destroy the shadow hands in the Fuel Weaver boss fight.

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13 hours ago, Zeklo said:

Oh... another potential way of looking at the lack of hands from Atrium statue to Terror Beak

2peE1R9.png

While the terrorbeak doesn't have hands there is a shadow that does. Literally shadow hands. That's all they are. Just hands.

post-4449-13764591395723_thumb.png

Another potential thing could be these two. The faces share a similar shape, and do have arms.

OOWWgjU.pngATpOETp.png

Plus when transforming they hold their head up in a similar fashion.

dBMaxGu.png

Could be something. Or nothing  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

EDIT - Also, a someone brought up the fact of how we literally get the Shadow Atrium from the chess pieces, and we use this to resurrect the Fuelweaver who appears to be an ancient, at least in mind, but maybe not body.

About the atrium, it's worth mentioning what I said again, they are the only creature known to us to go through a near complete transformation. The fact that a heart that allowed them to live is what brings back the Fuelweaver, but it needs to be at the peak of the Nightmare Cycle implies that while it manages to revive it, it's not nearly powerful enough to do it as well as it was done to the Chess Pieces. Fitting to the theory of the ancients actually being the statues, the Shadow Pieces and the Stalker are both found within a rock, and gain some abilities due to exposre to the fuel and the atrium.

 

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On 2017. 03. 26. at 11:41 PM, Zeklo said:

 

Oh... another potential way of looking at the lack of hands from Atrium statue to Terror Beak

2peE1R9.png

If the Terror Beak is what the ancients became, and considering that both of them have the exactly same role and have been in the game from very early on, what was in the beginning the Crawling Horror? Another type of ancient? Or some of them became Terror Beaks, some of them Crawling Horrors?

Knowing Klei there will be some background of it too (unless there is no connection at all between the nightmares and the ancients, which I highly doubt).

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3 hours ago, fimmatek said:

If the Terror Beak is what the ancients became, and considering that both of them have the exactly same role and have been in the game from very early on, what was in the beginning the Crawling Horror? Another type of ancient? Or some of them became Terror Beaks, some of them Crawling Horrors?

Knowing Klei there will be some background of it too (unless there is no connection at all between the nightmares and the ancients, which I highly doubt).

Isn't it the ancient statue head? They got the same jaw and body type, except for the legs ofc o-o

Nightmare_Ancient_Head.pngCrawling_Horror.png

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Something I found interesting is that the weird brown-ish substance on the atrium statues could also be on the ancient gateway. I say this because, in the murals the pictures show that the gateway didn't always look the same... it looked almost golden.

4.png.9831e1c1f96918e8b8654416ede43adf.p

This could imply that the gateway is make out of thulecite. We also know that the ancient statues in the ruins are made of thulecite. On the other hand the statues from the atrium are covered with that brown-ish 'stuff'. Notice I said "covered"... maybe the statues in the atrium ARE made of thulecite, but just covered with the brown stuff.

gA1K41F.png

It does look like they have thulecite on the inside.

This could also apply for the gateway... maybe the brown stuff just covered it making it look brown... 

latest?cb=20170224181705

 

 Anyway, just some observations... 

 

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On 5/14/2017 at 7:37 PM, Endramada said:

On the other hand the statues from the atrium are covered with that brown-ish 'stuff'. Notice I said "covered"... maybe the statues in the atrium ARE made of thulecite, but just covered with the brown stuff.

It could be that the nightmare fuel is degrading the thulcite. That the material is not meant to be combined with such eldritch forces.

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Hate to necromize a thread but what is with the Thulians and eyes? The fuelweaver has three sockets, the medallians are in a eye motif, the symbol on the ruin heiroglyphs seem to be a eye...

As with the tallbirds, Klaus, and no-eye deer. Should my comment be a thread in itself?

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4 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Hate to necromize a thread but what is with the Thulians and eyes? The fuelweaver has three sockets, the medallians are in a eye motif, the symbol on the ruin heiroglyphs seem to be a eye...

As with the tallbirds, Klaus, and no-eye deer. Should my comment be a thread in itself?

Eyes are symbols of clairvoyance, intelligence, omniscience, truth, and vigilance. It's a common symbol to use when you want to portray gaining knowledge. 

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22 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Klaus

With Klaus it is probably a philosophical statement about how blind Santa Clause is that he believes he can morally categorize the human species into two columns which individually deserve to receive a different incarnation of matter during a particular phase of the planets rotation around the sun.

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Posted (edited)

The brownish color on the statues and gateway reminds me of the Ancient Guardian's "brownish-grey" color. I also want to say that the statues seem to be slowly building up the brownish-layer(bottom of the statues) while the gateway looks completely covered.

Edited by LucariosKnight.
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