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Opinions on the endless cycle of resetting ruins.


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In my opinion on the recent update for beta, I think it is unnecessary to get a shadow atrium, kill AG, then kill weaver just to reset ruins. but its still beta ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. What does everyone else think without arguing?

I just wish clockwork piles can come back.

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I don't really see the value in resetting the ruins at all, although I haven't done it, so I'm probably missing something. What's good about the ruins are the statues and, to a lesser degree, the broken clockworks. Sometimes the Ancient Guardian is worth killing, but often not. What's a drag about the ruins are monkeys, slurpers, depth worms and damaged clockworks. Resetting the ruins as far as I can tell mostly just respawns the crappy parts, with a very low chance of getting more thulecite and gems. The most you can hope for seems to be thulecite crumbs -- unless the cave hole loot also respawns. If you kill the dragonfly regularly and carefully manage your thulecite stock by using the green gems to multiply it, why would you bother? I guess if you have a WX who wants  piles of gears? But tumbleweeds seem like an easier way to get that. 

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A fun event for players who played on a server for too long and got bored.

:wilsondisapproving: However, I'm not an experienced player. So I might not play in the atrium any time soon, (still trying to discover the surface world).

Plus, looking for fossil pieces to me is all like wishing spider don't get on my face.

coolspiderhole.png

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Wait, so to my understanding, defeating the new shadow skeleton form resets the ruins, right? Okay, I have a few things to say about that [salt mode activated]

Firstly, it would be wise if the statues and thulecite walls also respawned in the ruins, to make the loot better and so that aesthetically, ruins, well, wouldn't be ruined. Oh, and also the ancient structures, like the vases, tables and chairs (p.s. would be nice if we could sit on them when repaired)!

Moreover, I'm shocked that nothing in terms of loot drops for the ornate chests and large ornate chests has been increased, especially since guardian's health is x5 (correction, x4) the amount it is in single player. I mean, for heaven's sake, this is MULTIPLAYER, meaning that resources will be scarcer for EACH PLAYER, so you NEED more loot to be available or dropped in some way. That, and if the ornate chests do drop a lot more of valuable loot, I would suggest fixing the work-around of stepping on the corners/edges of silk webs where dangling depth dwellers spawn from so that in the labyrinth they are an actual challenge rather than a mild annoyance.

And lastly, anyone else find it weird that in both single player and multiplayer, clockworks and broken clockworks are just as functional in terms of speed and health as each other? Begs the question of what exactly is so broken about them. Since there's so many of them in the ruins anyway, why not just half their speed and health, ei? Some more, other kinds of challenges/hostile mobs in the ruins and the heart of the ruins would be great too.

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4 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Moreover, I'm shocked that nothing in terms of loot drops for the ornate chests and large ornate chests aren't higher, especially since guardoan's health is x5 the amount it is in single player.

It's only 4x the amount from 2,500 to 10,000!

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11 minutes ago, Toros said:

It's pretty easy to trivialize the ancient guardian boss fight though by getting him stuck on a pillar which makes his loot effectively free.

Gravestones work too, if they spawn correctly.

Just make sure not to push teammates into the AG.

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I'd actually prefer that the ruin doesn't reset at all. Or perhaps make it harder to reset.

So much else is renewable in the world that it's quite nice to have a valuable resource that is finite. And with proper gem/thulecite management there is so much of it already. I think it would be a shame if thulecite was so easily available that these ruin items lost their rarity and appeal.

At least acquiring the atrium and ancient key requires a little time and work I suppose.  But being able to reset the ruin as early as day 22 is too soon and too easily achieved for my liking.

The AG reset is good of course. But perhaps he needs a better reset method all of his own.

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8 minutes ago, Rob1 said:

I'd actually prefer that the ruin doesn't reset at all. Or perhaps make it harder to reset.

So much else is renewable in the world that it's quite nice to have a valuable resource that is finite. And with proper gem/thulecite management there is so much of it already. I think it would be a shame if thulecite was so easily available that these ruin items lost their rarity and appeal.

At least acquiring the atrium and ancient key requires a little time and work I suppose.  But being able to reset the ruin as early as day 22 is too soon and too easily achieved for my liking.

The AG reset is good of course. But perhaps he needs a better reset method all of his own.

It seems to me a ridiculous reach to suggest that a boss you more than likely haven't beaten would let you reset the ruins "too soon and too easily achieved."

 

Plainly put, I'd like to see evidence that you specifically are capable of doing it that quickly before you call it too easy.

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From my experience with all the bosses, I think it'd be all worth while if the ruins *actually did respawn.* While chests and mobs might be reset for infinite gears and a *chance* for more rare gems, you really need the statues and hell maybe even the Pseudoscience Stations to be reset to make the ruins reset worth it on its own. The plan from what I've heard is that there's some sort of world or other monster beyond the shadow doorway we have, and maybe there's more thulecite/gems in there, but I doubt it from the current dialogue of the Shadow Weaver. The best thing to do is to let statues be reset in the ruins to give everyone more thulecite, it's rare but it shouldn't be "OK I need a new thulecite suit time to go fight two bosses and two mazes just to get enough materials to make only 1" rare. 

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20 minutes ago, Toros said:

It seems to me a ridiculous reach to suggest that a boss you more than likely haven't beaten would let you reset the ruins "too soon and too easily achieved."

 

Plainly put, I'd like to see evidence that you specifically are capable of doing it that quickly before you call it too easy.

Perhaps "easy" is the wrong word. It was a fun challenge to rush for this fight. I've only tried this rush twice, and was with a friend both time.  We started fighting it around day 23/24 both times and hit the boss nonstop for 5/6 days. We actually ran out of heals/armours but I'd expect him to normally die at that point (certainly once he is fixed at his next update so he takes some damage or his timer is controllable). I think that's very achievable and quite soon to reset the ruin.

Do you ask for evidence from all players before you allow them to express their opinion? I suppose I could record it in the future but I have no experience making videos and little interest to do so just to show a random person on a forum. You should just try the run yourself - I think any player can do this run. The day 21 shadow CW fight can depend on some lucky scouting finding the suspicious marbles (but that isn't difficult in any way, just lucky, and I did it with a friend which makes it easier to find them).  And the Guardian is a regular day 5/6/7/8 kill for any Wolfgang if he wants it (sometimes faster with luck). Like every other run in this game, I think lucky worldgen is the biggest factor determining how fast it can be done. Doing challenge runs like these with friends are the most fun I've had in this game.

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6 minutes ago, Rob1 said:

We actually ran out of heals/armours but I'd expect him to normally die at that point (certainly once he is fixed at his next update so he takes some damage or his timer is controllable).

Am I misunderstanding or do you not actually know how to kill them?

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11 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

Am I misunderstanding or do you not actually know how to kill them?

Your reply prompted me to check the wiki. I was under the impression he was on some sort of timer for damage that was unfinished - that's embarrasing. I'll have to give the run another go.

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15 minutes ago, Rob1 said:

Your reply prompted me to check the wiki. I was under the impression he was on some sort of timer for damage that was unfinished - that's embarrasing. I'll have to give the run another go.

Don't worry about it. If you were wailing on them for that long they'd probably fall. So in the end I guess I just don't agree. Lots of things are doable, especially in challenge runs by individuals and groups, but these few are just that. Few. Basing the scaling upon them solely would be disastrous for the rest. 

Unfortunately that is all I can say having not done this in a real run yet.

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46 minutes ago, Rob1 said:

Perhaps "easy" is the wrong word. It was a fun challenge to rush for this fight. I've only tried this rush twice, and was with a friend both time.  We started fighting it around day 23/24 both times and hit the boss nonstop for 5/6 days. We actually ran out of heals/armours but I'd expect him to normally die at that point (certainly once he is fixed at his next update so he takes some damage or his timer is controllable). I think that's very achievable and quite soon to reset the ruin.

Do you ask for evidence from all players before you allow them to express their opinion? I suppose I could record it in the future but I have no experience making videos and little interest to do so just to show a random person on a forum. You should just try the run yourself - I think any player can do this run. The day 21 shadow CW fight can depend on some lucky scouting finding the suspicious marbles (but that isn't difficult in any way, just lucky, and I did it with a friend which makes it easier to find them).  And the Guardian is a regular day 5/6/7/8 kill for any Wolfgang if he wants it (sometimes faster with luck). Like every other run in this game, I think lucky worldgen is the biggest factor determining how fast it can be done. Doing challenge runs like these with friends are the most fun I've had in this game.

It is an enormous amount of work to rush it, and you would be in winter after day 20 which adds an additional complication.

 

I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's not practical done that early and certainly not easy.  You'd need to really be rushing to actually clear the loot from the ruins to the point it made sense to put in the effort to regenerate them.

 

Assuming you were capable of all that... what is the harm in even having overpowered gear?  Fighting the Fuelweaver is probably the most difficult challenge overall, and if you can do that you can do everything else too.

 

If you're skilled it's a fun challenge but simply surviving is easy for you then.  Newbies won't skip to fighting the Fuelweaver for OP ruins gear without becoming good, it simply won't work without cheating.

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1 hour ago, Rob1 said:

At least acquiring the atrium and ancient key requires a little time and work I suppose.  But being able to reset the ruin as early as day 22 is too soon and too easily achieved for my liking.

Ok, so you have 11 days to find the setpiece with the marble statues, their heads/nose and fix them. After you've killed them on the first full moon and got the 3 sketches you then need to wait until the next new moon and kill the shadow chess pieces for the shadow atrium. Now you need to get into the caves, find 8 fossil fragments, find the ruins and kill the guardian. Now you need to kill several tentapillars (depending on your luck of course) and find the atrium. Now you can make your way to the portal, assemble the skeleton and finally fight the boss that resets the ruins.

I highly doubt this is possible to do during the first autumn. At least not without a large group of experienced players all looking to rush to the endgame content (or cheating in the required items). But if you can rush to the endgame content so quickly, then you deserve whatever rewards it brings. You'd also need to raid most or all of the ruins as well for resetting to even be worth it.

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38 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

So in the end I guess I just don't agree. Lots of things are doable, especially in challenge runs by individuals and groups, but these few are just that. Few. Basing the scaling upon them solely would be disastrous for the rest. 

Unfortunately that is all I can say having not done this in a real run yet.

A fair point. I guess my fear is that every world will be swimming in thulecite if we can reset the ruin early. I rather liked its rarity.

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You'd need to really be rushing to actually clear the loot from the ruins to the point it made sense to put in the effort to regenerate them

@Toros

That's the issue I think. There is perhaps little incentive to do it so soon. My fear is just that the thulecite loses it's rarity so early. But it's not a huge issue, and I guess it's personal preference.

Quote

Ok, so you have 11 days to find the setpiece with the marble statues, their heads/nose and fix them. After you've killed them on the first full moon and got the 3 sketches you then need to wait until the next new moon and kill the shadow chess pieces for the shadow atrium.

@Sinister_Fang

You don't need to worry about the the full moon fight or the sketches. You can just repair the marbles and fight the shadow CWs at their setpiece on 21.

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2 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Ok, so you have 11 days to find the setpiece with the marble statues, their heads/nose and fix them. After you've killed them on the first full moon and got the 3 sketches you then need to wait until the next new moon and kill the shadow chess pieces for the shadow atrium. Now you need to get into the caves, find 8 fossil fragments, find the ruins and kill the guardian. Now you need to kill several tentapillars (depending on your luck of course) and find the atrium. Now you can make your way to the portal, assemble the skeleton and finally fight the boss that resets the ruins.

I highly doubt this is possible to do during the first autumn. At least not without a large group of experienced players all looking to rush to the endgame content (or cheating in the required items). But if you can rush to the endgame content so quickly, then you deserve whatever rewards it brings. You'd also need to raid most or all of the ruins as well for resetting to even be worth it.

@BluesyBuesy, I summon thee to swoop down from the Heavens and prove him wrong.

Or make a sick video. Either works.

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5 hours ago, Rob1 said:

I'd actually prefer that the ruin doesn't reset at all. Or perhaps make it harder to reset.

So much else is renewable in the world that it's quite nice to have a valuable resource that is finite. And with proper gem/thulecite management there is so much of it already. I think it would be a shame if thulecite was so easily available that these ruin items lost their rarity and appeal.

 

Herendously bad train of thought there.

Having them even more rare and scarse than they are right now would make them unusable. It's already a hassle for one player to maintain using them late-game. I speak from experience! I want those darn crowns and it's a shame that it's hard to share them with others. Besides, they lose durab even when the shield is hit, which imho is bullcrap, partly due to it making the shield less useful for tanking things (I can't tank large groups of mobs at all while the shield is one, because then the crown's durab will get munched down during this) and partly due to the fact that it can allow for the shield bug to occur much more often.

What you're describing is a very horrible way of doing things for a multiplayer game and I'd argue it's horrible even for a single player game, but I digress. This kind of crap is why I and I know some other people get really salty about the game.

They have not lost their appeal, they have gained it. Rarity, or scarcity just makes it less appealing, hence why none can rely on Shelmets at all. The proper way to keep the thulecite items hard to obtain and quite scarse are already in the game. Keeping them scarse, however, as mentioned, in a multiplayer game, late-game would be unwise as ot drains the fun value out of content, which is why it would definitely be good and not game breaking if you had something like earthquakes dropping thulecite fragments and ancient gems in the ruins biomes, statues regenerated to mine, walls regenerated to hammer and even ancient furniture to smash and more loot from ornate chests.

Sure, these things might make battle helmets obsolete, but only if you're playing on private servers. Newbies joining constantly, you losing all of your crown armour before you get the chance to go get more (e.g. from boss fights) would make battle helmets a go-to, heck, I use them to pick cactus even though I use crowns for everything else generally late-game. And remember, battle helmets make football helmets barely useful unless under certain conditions. Game progressing to allow you to use better stuff for more fun value, in a sense creating tiers for things is quite good sometimes. In any case, cheaply crafted helmets are cheaply crafted, so even if not relied upon later generally, they can still serve their purpose elsewhere for you or some others, or on the other hand you could look at it in that "they had their" run for you on a server, so to speak.

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13 hours ago, Escaped said:

From my experience with all the bosses, I think it'd be all worth while if the ruins *actually did respawn.* While chests and mobs might be reset for infinite gears and a *chance* for more rare gems, you really need the statues and hell maybe even the Pseudoscience Stations to be reset to make the ruins reset worth it on its own. The plan from what I've heard is that there's some sort of world or other monster beyond the shadow doorway we have, and maybe there's more thulecite/gems in there, but I doubt it from the current dialogue of the Shadow Weaver. The best thing to do is to let statues be reset in the ruins to give everyone more thulecite, it's rare but it shouldn't be "OK I need a new thulecite suit time to go fight two bosses and two mazes just to get enough materials to make only 1" rare. 

So much this.

The appeal of ruins regen in singleplayer via world hopping was mainly statues, and psuedoscience stations. Guardian of course too but only for the Houndius.

Now I basically think this is the only issue with the reset, as killing the guardian for the key is something you'll do anyway once the ruins are reset, due to wanting to get his loot(and its not even that bad of a fight, it's a beefed up rook you can cheese), the fossils you get back once any stalker form dies, and while the shadow pieces are problematic, I still think Klei didn't scrap the plan of giving each tier 3 an exclusive drop, as that would actually give a reason to do them other than for a ruins reset, meaning you have a reason to fight them other than something which isn't worth. Also means that there's an actual reason to see everyone's tier 3 forms.

The Fuelweaver fight itself is fine for the most part, and the steps to getting it again aren't that bad, except for the Shadow Pieces being a very mundane task at the moment, and the ruins reset not being as worth it as it should be due to the Psuedoscience Stations and the Statues not respawning. 

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