Nerfed Fertilizer makers a tad much?

[bzgzd]

2 hours ago, Fatmice said:

Oh that.  Yes, don't need that many if you are just treating the polluted water from the air scrubber.  Each fertilizer maker can process 25kg of polluted water a day.  If you allow dupes to have showers and toilet, then each will need 2 fertilizer makers to process their wastes.  Depending on the trait, each dupe can produce anywhere from 2-1.5 g/s of CO2.  A day is 600s so that's 1.2-0.9kg per day per dupe.  This means 12-9kg of polluted water from the air scrubber per day per dupe.  So you need 2.48-2.36 fertilizer maker per dupe.  A colony of 4 dupes will need 10 fertilizer makers to keep the polluted water under control.

I do think that the nerf to the fertilizer maker performance is a tad much.

Showers don't have very constant usage and so I think they are best on loop with purifier. Sand used only for showers water is no issue.

I mean if people don't want to make any waste from their colonies it is still doable and not that extreme... less than one FM for each dupe.

And making some waste is normal, with my 10 dupes colony I am putting away around 50% polluted water from toilets and container I build outside my base would be big enough for 1000 cycles.

 

[Vilda]

I think I am good for some time with this

[MoMuffins]

2 minutes ago, bzgzd said:

Showers don't have very constant usage and so I think they are best on loop with purifier. Sand used only for showers water is no issue.

I mean if people don't want to make any waste from their colonies it is still doable and not that extreme... less than one FM for each dupe.

And making some waste is normal, with my 10 dupes colony I am putting away around 50% polluted water from toilets and container I build outside my base would be big enough for 1000 cycles.

 

It's not the constant usage that matters.  It is the amount that can be treated by a fertilizer maker per day that matters.  It can only process 25 kg of polluted water per day so you need 2 fertilizer maker per dupe if you want to treat all of the polluted water.

Yes, you can just dump the liquid into the map and ignore it.  There are plenty of space that would last you for thousands of cycles.  If your map has a void, then you can forget about the polluted water.  It will disappear into oblivion.

[Saturnus]

If you really want to get rid of polluted water you can always freeze it into polluted ice and stuff it in storage containers which you just empty once in a while to have massive million ton blobs.

[Grimgaw]

Why not steam it and convert it into oxygen, electricity and dirt?!

[MoMuffins]

13 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

If you really want to get rid of polluted water you can always freeze it into polluted ice and stuff it in storage containers which you just empty once in a while to have massive million ton blobs.

This single tile trick will probably be fixed sooner or later.

9 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

Why not steam it and convert it into oxygen, electricity and dirt?!

Because it is not safe to steam polluted water at the moment and there isn't any good source of heat to do that outside of the lower depths which will eventually cooldown.

[Grimgaw]

Just now, Fatmice said:

Because it is not safe to steam polluted water at the moment and there isn't any good source of heat to do that outside of the lower depths which will eventually cooldown.

Oh but it is safe, and there is plenty oh heat.

[Saturnus]

7 minutes ago, Fatmice said:

This single tile trick will probably be fixed sooner or later.

Maybe but storage containers can still hold 20 tiles worth of polluted water by itself in ice form so then it's just a matter of making more storage containers. 10 to 1 compression ratio is nothing to sneeze at.

[MoMuffins]

1 minute ago, Grimgaw said:

Oh but it is safe, and there is plenty oh heat.

You misunderstand me.  It is not safe if you use buildings to heat the liquid.  The boiling temperature of polluted water is too close to the overheat of gold amalgam.  As for lower depths heat, yes, there is plenty to last you thousands of cycles, but it doesn't last forever, which is why it is not a "good" source.  Of course, if it lasts 20k cycles, you might be bored before then to care.

[MoMuffins]

3 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Maybe but storage containers can still hold 20 tiles worth of polluted water by itself in ice form so then it's just a matter of making more storage containers. 10 to 1 compression ratio is nothing to sneeze at.

Until they make ice melts while in container.  Only turning it into fertilizer will you permanently get rid of it.

[Saturnus]

Just now, Fatmice said:

Until they make ice melts while in container.

Keep it below 0C

[Grimgaw]

5 minutes ago, Fatmice said:

You misunderstand me.  It is not safe if you use buildings to heat the liquid.  The boiling temperature of polluted water is too close to the overheat of gold amalgam.  As for lower depths heat, yes, there is plenty to last you thousands of cycles, but it doesn't last forever, which is why it is not a "good" source.  Of course, if it lasts 20k cycles, you might be bored before then to care.

Did you even click the links?

[MoMuffins]

4 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

Did you even click the links?

What you have is a bug.  Tepidizer wasn't allowed to go above 85C and must be 75% submerged in liquid.  Could be new bug with current version.  Like tepidizer not heating my liquid oxygen even when fully submerged.

 

[Grimgaw]

1 minute ago, Fatmice said:

What you have is a bug.  Tepidizer wasn't allowed to go above 85C and must be 75% submerged in liquid.

Well, you see.. umm Tepidizer made with Gold Amalgam isn't allowed to go over 135C which it never does in my example. And all 4 blocks of tepidizer are covered in water. You call it bug, I call it feature.

[MoMuffins]

4 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

Well, you see.. umm Tepidizer made with Gold Amalgam isn't allowed to go over 135C which it never does in my example. And all 4 blocks of tepidizer are covered in water. You call it bug, I call it feature.

You mean 125C?  "Must be fully submerged"  What you have done is exploit a bug; enjoy it while it lasts    As for me, I will report what you found as a bug.

[Grimgaw]

85+50 = 135 though. Tiles in this game can only be occupied by one substance. How do you propose the game checks 'level' of liquid?

[MoMuffins]

7 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

85+50 = 135 though. Tiles in this game can only be occupied by one substance. How do you propose the game checks 'level' of liquid?

It's 75+50.  That's a gold amalgam tepidizer.  Also it was hardcoded to not go over 85C.

I don't read the code so I do not know what it is currently doing to check for liquid level. As for "level" of liquid, intuitively, it's simply the amount in the tile that the tepidizer is in.  Like if the object is in (0,0)-(0,4), then it should only check those coordinates.  No doubt some funky if/else statements crept into its code.  It was checking this just fine before today's patch. 

 

[Saturnus]

4 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

85+50 = 135 though. Tiles in this game can only be occupied by one substance. How do you propose the game checks 'level' of liquid?

It's only an exploit until you think about how the game mechanic actually works. A tile with any amount of water, even grams, is a water tile and counts as submersion. So unless they change the fundamental mechanics of the game this is definitely not a bug. An exploit perhaps but not a bug.

[MoMuffins]

4 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

It's only an exploit until you think about how the game mechanic actually works. A tile with any amount of water, even grams, is a water tile and counts as submersion. So unless they change the fundamental mechanics of the game this is definitely not a bug. An exploit perhaps but not a bug.

Erm, it specifically stated, "full submersion," by that it can only mean liquid to the "top" of a tile no?  Clearly a bug.  It also stated, "Marginally warms a large body of water".  A few grams is not a large body of water and marginally warms is not boiling.

[Grimgaw]

Fair enough, my bad about the temperature. Fact is with polluted water it never goes above 110C so that point is moot anyway. 

The devs intentionally put heat output as 20700 Watts on tepidizer, so 85C cap seems contradictory.

[Saturnus]

4 minutes ago, Fatmice said:

Erm, it specifically stated, "full submersion," by that it can only mean liquid to the "top" of a tile no?  Clearly a bug.

A water tile is a water tile no matter how much water is in it. Full submersion means it must be in water tiles.

Clear NOT a bug. All conditions are fulfilled. But it's pointless to discuss. Please report it. Until they change the mechanics or find a workaround that will somehow check if there's water in the tiles above the tepidizer then it will not be corrected.

[MoMuffins]

5 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

Fair enough, my bad about the temperature. Fact is with polluted water it never goes above 110C so that point is moot anyway. 

The devs intentionally put heat output as 20700 Watts on tepidizer, so 85C cap seems contradictory.

That maybe so, but it clearly stated here.  I agree that is seems contradictory to have such a large Wattage only to cap it at 85C.  I wished it wasn't so.

2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

A water tile is a water tile no matter how much water is in it. Full submersion means it must be in water tiles.

Clear NOT a bug. All conditions are fulfilled. But it's pointless to discuss. Please report it. Until they change the mechanics or find a workaround that will somehow check if there's water in the tiles above the tepidizer then it will not be corrected.

I don't think that is hard to do.  I don't know how they store information for a tile and how it is used for the checking of submersion.  But yeah, I added to my bug report as it is also not heating non water liquid.

[Grimgaw]

I could be facetious and point out that it's in fact not heating up surrounding environment and just the tiles it occupies, but you're pretty set that this is definitely a bug.

I won't tell you how to play your single player game.

For now, though, everyone else can have fun with melting things and creating steam.

[MoMuffins]

2 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

I could be facetious and point out that it's in fact not heating up surrounding environment and just the tiles it occupies, but you're pretty set that this is definitely a bug.

I won't tell you how to play your single player game.

For now, though, everyone else can have fun with melting things and creating steam.

I agree, that's why I said enjoy it while it lasts.   I would exploit the hell out it as well, but I call it what it is.  Sometimes a bug is feature and should remain.

[MoMuffins]

6 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Again no. You really haven't considered the possibilities properly.

The beauty of CO2 is that it is heavy. You do not need to pump it anywhere in gas form. You can just let it sink into a room to liquefy it on it's own. This will compress the volume about a 1000 times creating it's own powerful suction to have more CO2 sink, or in fact literally pulled down by underpressure, and so on. The only thing you need in a CO2 cooling system is a liquid pump to pump the coolant where you need it to go.

I've tested this idea.  Wheezeworts do not go below -43.1C with CO2 gas.  I've not been able to get below this temperature for the gas to condense.  This seems to be hardcoded so this natural air conditioning idea does not seems work.